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Why ELO hell actually exists

Lugg··2 votes·1,079 views

I had a game yesterday that perfectly shows that ELO hell is actually a real thing. I took Vlad top against a Gnar. He got the first kill on me at about 10 minutes thanks to a great Lee Sin gank, but I got both of his towers and a kill on him before he got my tower with the help of two teammates. So I won my lane pretty handily.

The hell part comes in the fact that despite our team getting 5 Dragons and 2 Barons, we still lost. We even had the Baron and 5th Dragon at the same time! I split push several times drawing at least 2 enemies, but my team took ZERO objectives while I did this. Plus I went to the other lanes to help out while I was ahead.

Also, our jungler gave the enemy Lee two free Dragons during the game. We had 4 people doing Dragon both times, with vision on the Lee, and our jungler was too inept to smite before Lee Q'd in. This despite the fact we were trying to zone and CC him out.

This is so frustrating when you play your role to win the game and your team drops the ball constantly. Honestly, I don't think there is a pro player who could have carried this game. That is why ELO hell actually exists, to say otherwise is pretty delusional. No matter how good you are, it's still a team game in the end.

38 Comments

Karlyr4 votes

Evidence A : Multi-Queue is now a thing Evidence B : Pings and callouts in chat are still a thing Evidence C : Not dying and defending prevents losing games.

Sincerely, A platinum player who is still able to win a game 2v5 with a bronze smurf account.

Lugg3 votes

Not everyone gets to multi-q. Besides, if the game was set up properly, you could climb just as easy playing solo.

Many players ignore chat and pings. You have pretty much zero control over other players, sad but true.

When your teammates feed, you will die. It doesn't matter how good you are, you can't beat some champs who get fed early. If you just defend, you automatically lose since you aren't taking objectives.

Karlyr2 votes

You and only you doing all these things will help you climb if you are actually good at the game. You can't judge a WHOLE SYSTEM on A SINGLE GAME.

If you are actually better than your division, you'll have a better team than the enemy team a minimum 56% of the time. This as been addressed over and over again.

There is no elo hell. There is only players that are salty over the fact that they are where they are supposed to be. If you don't think you are where you deserve, keep playing. Stats will put you where you are supposed to.

Lugg2 votes

I agree that a single game doesn't determine everything. The point is that games like this happen ALL THE TIME in low ELO. This makes climbing incredibly hard since games like that can make pretty much anyone go on tilt.

Your second paragraph is actually a fallacy. If your MMR is better than your divison, you will get teamed up with much lower MMR teammates to balance out your team vs the other team. This means you are MORE likely to get the unskilled feeders than the other team. This is a concept a lot of people don't understand for some reason.

There are PLENTY of posts that explain why ELO hell is real for solo queue, which is what I'm addressing.

Verxint2 votes

No, there are plenty of posts that explain that solo queue is tedious and difficult and requires playing in specific ways.

There aren't any legitimate posts saying "if you can't climb it's not your fault because ELO hell"

All high rank players agree if you're good you will climb. If you're not climbing, you belong at that rank. If you think it's so obvious you belong higher, then figure out why you don't win more. ELO hell is am excuse that stops you from improving because you convince yourself it's out of your control.

Lugg1 votes

Don't get me wrong, if you are good, you will EVENTUALLY climb. The problem, IMHO, is that it takes way too long to climb.

The soft resets they have at the start of each season are complete bullshit. There is no other way to put it. If I climb from Bronze to Gold, I don't deserve to be put back in Bronze the next season. Honestly, if it weren't for the resets, I guarantee I would be Plat. I have always gone at least 6-4 in my promos, but still been dropped to Bronze I or II each season.

Granted, I'm not a god like player, but I have played with enough Diamond and Plat players that say my game is on point.

Karlyr2 votes

The soft reset doesn't do anything tbh. The ordering of every player is still preserved. We are just brought back closer together to make it more easy to get out of whatever ranking you were, or else people would NEVER move in divisions.

Lugg1 votes

Sorry, but I have to totally disagree with this one. When you bunch everyone together, it's literally luck on who ends up with the stronger team for the first month of ranked. I see guys who don't deserve to be above B4 end up in G2 due to being carried hard by the good players who dropped down at the start of the season.

Karlyr1 votes

But "luck" gets them back where they were when other players of higher skill get out.

The complete system is just fine as it is. You gain/lose more MMR on the first games to help you reach a proper ranking and then less when you have played enough games.

You can't judge a player's skill with a few games (and by few I go up to a hundred). Ranking, except for highly ranked players, should be only a way to get matched against equally skilled player. (Because, no, normals isn't really balanced on that matter)

And if a single player, in a single game, makes you drop rankings, that's where you have a problem. You are according way to much importance on a single game and even the game, LoL, altogether.

Lugg1 votes

I think the system would be fine if they added another variable like KDA. If you go 18/3/18 in a game and still lose, your point loss should be like 1-3 points max since you obvious didn't cost your team the win. On the same note, if you go 2/8/4 and win, you should only gain 1-3 points. This would allow for your MMR not to be punished if you were just on a bad team or over inflated if you get carried.

Karlyr1 votes

KDA means actually nothing. Doesn't matter if you go 12-0 but don't defend a single tower, you still suck at what is supposed to be a team game.

Doesn't matter if you are 12-0 if you never helped another lane.

KDA is the absolute worse indicator of what a team game is supposed to look like.

Lugg1 votes

KDA actually does mean a lot. The last letter, the A, stands for assists. If you have those, you helped a teammate get a kill and that's helping your team. If you have lots of kills and assists, you must have carried that game pretty good.

Karlyr1 votes

But if you kept chasing 4v2 while the 3 other players were getting objectives, KDA means nothing because you let the enemy get your towers and eventually the game for your KDA.

CS:GO doesn't work off KDA either. And a round of CS:GO is often times determined by wiping out the enemy team.

If KDA isn't a thing there, why should it be here.

Karlyr2 votes

My second paragraph is on point. If your **current **MMR is lower than your real MMR (theoretical value) you will climb and be in a better team (because YOU are better than your counterpart) 56% of the time.

If your MMR is on point, both team will be matched equally and you'll have a 50% win rate.

LITTLE TlMO1 votes

this guy knows what hes talking about

BlargChikaBlargh1 votes

{quoted}

Evidence A : Multi-Queue is now a thing Evidence B : Pings and callouts in chat are still a thing Evidence C : Not dying and defending prevents losing games.

Sincerely, A platinum player who is still able to win a game 2v5 with a bronze smurf account.

Lol I call bullshit. Win a 2v5. Uh huh.

Karlyr1 votes

I say 2v5 as in : "My 3 random teammates were garbage"

Verxint2 votes

If you want to carry ranked games don't take vlad, take someone who can cc and do things for his team besides damage and splitpush.

It's not about your team adapting to what you do, it's about adapting to what your team does. If you pick versatile champs with multiple strengths you can do this easier

darkmatchwaldo1 votes

The exact reason i've been playing a lot more Ekko recently. So versatile.

Verxint1 votes

Ekko is a great champ for solo queue If you're good at him. He can technically go in 3 positions, is a good skirmisher and teamfighter, and can initiate, assassinate, or clean up while being hard to catch. He can set up picks for his team and protect his team from being picked. Overall one of the best champs for solo queue

darkmatchwaldo1 votes

My current favorite way to build him is Top Lane. summoner 12 summoner 4 item 3027 item 3100 item 3110 item 3135 item 3102 item 3111

I swap that item 3102 out for item 3512 depending on the feel of the game. If my team NEEDS me for fights i'll usually build the item 3143 instead of item 3110. If i'm good to split push i'll take the item 3512 with a item 3165 instead of item 3102.

That's what i LOVE about him, i can adapt my build every single game.

Randomonium2 votes

Here is the truth of ranked.

~25% of your games you will lose no matter how hard you play ~25% of your games you win win no matter how badly you play.

What truly matter is the remaining ~50% where you can actually influence the outcome of the game.

Yes maybe in that ONE game there was nothing you could have done to win it. But what about the other ranked games you've played this month? Can you honestly say that all of the games you lost were unwinnable?

There are two main reasons why I think people begin to believe elo hell exists:

  1. They don't play well enough to carry the majority of the remaining 50% of games where their play actually influences the game.
  2. They prematurely forfeit games that are winnable because they "don't want to waste their time" or they don't believe they can carry.

I would try to look at this game in a positive light and learn from it. You had 5 dragons and 2 barons and you weren't able to win. That means that if in the future the ENEMY team has 5 dragons and 2 barons that YOUR team can still win. This is why I never forfeit in a ranked game. Throws happen all the time, especially in low elo.

Yes, League is ultimately a team game and there will be some games that you just can't carry. However, if you have superior mechanics and decision making you WILL be able to climb over hundreds of games. There are countless streamers and youtubers who go from bronze to diamond on smurf accounts. There are countless people who can very quickly elo boost someone who in in the deep, dark depths of Bronze 5 all the way to diamond. If elo hell truly existed these people would not be able to do this.

Ranked league is in some ways like professional poker. Sometimes you may have pocket aces and you'll still lose to pocket kings. However, if you consistently make the right calls over time you will win more than you lose and you will see your bankroll grow.

Lugg1 votes

In Bronze, I would say 33% of the games you can't win and 20% of the games you will get carried no matter what.

I do agree that there are games where you don't carry well enough to win, but I have had several games where I played as good as possibly could be played and still lost. There have also been games where we could have come back but my team does a 4-1 surrender vote and there isn't anything you can do about those either.

I agree that you can definitely learn from losses, but it's so frustrating sometimes and can put you on tilt. I do agree on the throws.

I also agree that you will eventually climb, but it takes WAY too long. The soft resets each season are a complete joke. I drop AT LEAST a full division every year. If I go 6-4 or better in promos, I obviously belong where I am or higher.

Randomonium1 votes

The problem is that when the season resets the highest you can get placed is Plat 1. This means that all the Diamond, Master and Challenger players get placed into plat. This causes everyone beneath them to get pushed down in ranking. Its chaos at the beginning of the season but the players who should climb usually do. I started playing ranked for this season two week ago and I've already gotten promoted twice and will most likely be back to my season 5 ranking within a month (and I'm not that great of a player.) So trust me, it is possible. It just requires you to play consistently and learn to stop playing when you go on tilt. That's the most common mistake I see people make: they continue to queue for ranked games even if they are on tilt and it completely destroys any progress that they make.

Lugg1 votes

The thing is that in Plat and above, you really don't have to worry that much about your teammates feeding and throwing. You can concentrate on winning your lane since your teammates are at least semi-competent at that point.

Randomonium1 votes

I'm not plat, I'm bronze. [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Sariat12 votes

ELO hell exists because the surrender button still works in Ranked Games. 8/10 games I lose in Silver are surrenders before 30 mins because we are behind 10 kills or so. Most surrenders take place before they have even taken an inhibitor. Over half of these games I would consider to be winnable. Yes they are 15 kills ahead, Of course the Jinx has 5 items, but it doesn't matter cause they have no vision and I'm playing Leblanc. Honestly, people put way too much reliance on scores than skill. Positioning and vision control is a joke, people get caught out all the time. Frankly, at the skill point of low ELO, score means absolutely nothing, but people can't recognize that. They give up way too easily based solely on the scoreboard. There's a reason pro teams never give up, they know that no matter what happens, comebacks always happen. I don't get mad when I lose to a team that was better than me. But losing to a team that I could have beat, given a little bit of time is absolutely infuriating.

Note: I only Solo queue in Ranked, because I believe that rank should be a measure of individual skill, not how good your friends are. If you want to get a feel for how good you are as part of a team, go play Team Ranked.

Lugg2 votes

Love your post. Half the games I lose are because of surrenders. I have been in games where the game was even but the other team took first Dragon and my team surrendered. You can't make this shit up. I also hate those games where we are behind, but have the much better scaling comp and my team surrenders.

I also think that ALL ranked should be solo q. There are SO many players in Plat that have no business at all being there. Pro players have said that Bronze is brutal to play.

The Deckowner2 votes

the only way to surely carry "elo hell" team is to stomp ur lane, destroy every other lane, and kill half of the enemy team by urself.

dont even try teamwork and macro plays, people in this elo cant handle those.

Lugg1 votes

Yeah, it is too much to think that your team will actually do the smart/right thing sometimes.

Dukues1 votes

haha I have had those games and they are shitty.

Live2LetDie1 votes

Currently playing against gold players on my I ranked smurf and they are just as bad as silver and bronze. A jungler should not be out csing his solo lanes. These games are so easy to carry even weedeick can carry

Lugg1 votes

{quoted}

A jungler should not be out csing his solo lanes.

But this happens in low ELO.

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

Live2LetDie1 votes

{quoted}

But this happens in low ELO.

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

And that's why they are low elo. Even the simplest task of CSing is hard for them.

darkmatchwaldo1 votes

It sounds like you just couldn't carry....because you're playing Vladimir

If you can't kill half the enemy team by yourself you're never gonna climb.

Lugg1 votes

I think you missed the point. It really shouldn't matter what champ you are on if you don't win with 5 Dragons and 2 Barons.

darkmatchwaldo2 votes

Nah I think you missed the point. If you have baron + 5th drag and you're on someone like Gnar Ekko Gangplank Lissandra Nasus Nautilus Tryndamere Trundle Volibear MonkeyKing Rumble Shyvana Garen Irelia You're gonna dive into their team, take out 3/4ths of everyones health, and your team is gonna easily sweep up the remains. It does matter what champion you're playing. Vlad isn't a "carry this teamfight on his shoulders" type of champion and that's what it takes to end games in SoloQ.

Lugg1 votes

You might be right, but Vlad does quite a bit of damage when he ults a team.

The drawback is that any champion can be stopped from doing that with hard CC and blown up. Plus you need teammates competent enough to take advantage of them focusing you, which doesn't seem to happen that often.

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