The "lol no idea how to play olaf" that is 0/8 10 mins into our game and spamming "lol verbal". why rito...why do you defend this?
Like...I really don't understand why Riot defends trolls. They only create a toxic environment for everyone on the team. You say you are against toxicity, but you do nothing to fix the cause of it. I just don't get it.
Sona Ping2 votesI will do my League Community Service and explain this.
"Why is this type of behavior defended by Riot?" You will need examples of Riot comments if you want anyone to explain what Riot is stating or address the how it defends people
The Olaf. "Trolling" is NOT playing a champion you are inexperienced with. Trolling is NOT having a certain score. Trolling is NOT having a bad game. I have no idea what you are trying to say with "lol verbal"; you need to be clear when you are trying to write. You are free to mute players who write things in chat you dislike.
"Already had an 'ADC'. " Nor is trolling picking a certain champion. A player is NEVER under an obligation to pick a certain champion because another player wants them to. "ADC", "Tank", "Bruiser", etc. are player created terms that have little to no consensus on what they mean and even less agreement on what champions this terms fit. So it makes especially little sense to punish a player because they decided to pick a certain champ in THEIR game but another person decided that it was the "wrong type" according to their personal opinion.
Finally, many would consider an environment where other players feel free to force others to play the way they want them to and abuse, threaten to report, insult, or feel that others deserve to be punished for selecting the a certain champion, lane, or items is actually very toxic.
Nucleophilic atk1 votes[{quoted}](name=Sona Ping,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=oaYp2yEc,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-02-11T03:00:08.084+0000)
I will do my League Community Service and explain this.
- "Why is this type of behavior defended by Riot?" You will need examples of Riot comments if you want anyone to explain what Riot is stating or address the how it defends people
Well, the fact they do nothing about says they defend it.
- The Olaf. "Trolling" is NOT playing a champion you are inexperienced with. Trolling is NOT having a certain score. Trolling is NOT having a bad game. I have no idea what you are trying to say with "lol verbal"; you need to be clear when you are trying to write. You are free to mute players who write things in chat you dislike.
That was Olaf's response to our mid laner asking him to stop running into the enemy and standing there. I am not trying to say anything other than what he had said, hence the quotes. Not sure where the confusions is there. I believe running into the enemy and letting them kill you is reportable, no?
- "Already had an 'ADC'. " Nor is trolling picking a certain champion. A player is NEVER under an obligation to pick a certain champion because another player wants them to. "ADC", "Tank", "Bruiser", etc. are player created terms that have little to no consensus on what they mean and even less agreement on what champions this terms fit. So it makes especially little sense to punish a player because they decided to pick a certain champ in THEIR game but another person decided that it was the "wrong type" according to their personal opinion.
Actually, I have seen an instance of a Riot employee in champ select telling the last pick that he could not go mid when they already had a mid. Pick order is a thing, ya know. I'm not complaining for him picking a certain champ like you said. I am complaining about him instalocking a role that was already chosen. Big difference there.
Sona Ping2 votesSee, this is different. Kind of why I wrote that I wanted you to be clearer. ; )
First, a formality:
Well, the fact they do nothing about says they defend it.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence." you know. I also must say that from my personal experience regarding a certain incident, Riot did pay due attention to a legitimate case of trolling.
That was Olaf's response to our mid laner asking him to stop running into the enemy and standing there. I am not trying to say anything other than what he had said, hence the quotes. Not sure where the confusions is there. I believe running into the enemy and letting them kill you is reportable, no?
Well, you weren't clear about what happened with your original post. That, on the other hand, is quite reportable under the category of "Griefing: Intentional Feeding" .
I am complaining about him instalocking a role that was already chosen. Big difference there.
True. As a larger topic there is a lot of grey area about "roles". However, a person who takes the attitude of "Of screw you, I'm taking this lane; you go elsewhere" is a problem and will probably do quite a few things to earn himself a report at the end-game lobby.
Nucleophilic atk1 votes[{quoted}](name=Sona Ping,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=oaYp2yEc,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2015-02-11T03:37:39.584+0000)
See, this is different. Kind of why I wrote that I wanted you to be clearer. ; )
First, a formality:
"Absence of evidence is not evidence." you know. I also must say that from my personal experience regarding a certain incident, Riot did pay due attention to a legitimate case of trolling.
In general, yes. But, I will argue that when Riot sees 4 teammates reporting a person for trolling, and ignore it, that they are in fact ok with the behavior. Otherwise, they would do something about it. That is at least my opinion on the matter.
True. As a larger topic there is a lot of grey area about "roles". However, a person who takes the attitude of "Of screw you, I'm taking this lane; you go elsewhere" is a problem and will probably do quite a few things to earn himself a report at the end-game lobby.
He did it with the intent of fucking us over. Again, Riot will see the reports and do nothing about it. I can tell this by looking at the match history of the players and seeing them doing the same thing in other games.
We play a game where trolling doesn't get you punished, but asking the person not to do it does.
Sona Ping3 votesThe thing that we have to keep in mind is that A LOT of people play this game. Even if only 1% does reportable things that is thousands of cases to get through, it has to be automated and it has to have actions taken based on a presented pattern.
It not going to ban people for getting a report. There's is not going to be action for multiple reports; people can spite-report, we know this. People will report you for not picking the "right champion", people will report you because you caused the loss for "not playing meta" (even if the pick is in the meta). There has to be a line of legitimate cases and that'll take time.
"Riot sees 4 teammates reporting a person" And I'm sure that even I have got 4 teammates reporting me before, because that what happens in this game sometimes. (Unnecessary over-long example: you get a toxic duo-queue pair of donkeys who take this way too seriously and decide that someone is at fault that this game is going to be a loss and decide to pick someone, and top lane agrees because there's no way he could lose his lane.) Furthermore, "Riot sees" They don't. There's no possible way the could know. It's logged into a database and will be taken care of it continues to be a problem.
I'm not supporting Riot nor am I an apologist for them. What I am saying is that you are taking the wrong perspective on this. It's upsetting; I know. But you need to let it go. Do what I do, forget about that game. It does you no good to focus on this.
Nucleophilic atk1 votesI appreciate that you are actually willing to have a conversation, rather than just spam the down vote like the vast majority if GD.
I believe Riot has stated many times that their system is not automated and that they actually look into accounts. So, to be honest, I don't see your concerns being an issue here. That is just my opinion formulated through what the support guys have told me. I have no seen an official statement on it, but it is what they claim lol.
I think we need the tribunal back. I was only chat restricted 1 time when that was a thing and it was when I first started playing the game. I also noticed less of these trolls, because I think they were actually being punished. Doesn't seem that way anymore.
Sona Ping1 votes"I appreciate that you are actually willing to have a conversation" Well, thanks for saying that.
(I can't say for sure, I don't work for Riot,) but what they look to be saying is that the judgement and selection of punishment is not automated. The collection of reports and the choice of what cases are presented before people are what is automated (Source: Official Tribunal FAQ). A Rioter has also confirmed that there is an automated system that collects data on patterns of intentional feeding in a statement. So there will always be some delay for actions to be taken against a player as they have to have multiple reports against them that show they are a problem and need to be reviewed.
I can't say what the effect is with The Tribunal and whatever is current situation. Which is kind of the issue of what we are talking about; I can't really say whether or not it seems like people are having actions taken against them because I would not have any information either way about this. It's treated as confidential, I'm not messaged about my reports and I don't have any statistics because I don't work for them. All I can tell is whether or not their are "toxic" players, which there are ALWAYS going to be either way, especially because this is a free-to-play and a popular one at that.
I can say that I noticed less poor behavior a long while back but that was just because the account was low level; people are more forgiving when nobody knows how to play XP.
Nucleophilic atk1 votes[{quoted}](name=Sona Ping,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=oaYp2yEc,comment-id=0003000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-02-12T06:48:28.829+0000)
I can say that I noticed less poor behavior a long while back but that was just because the account was low level; people are more forgiving when nobody knows how to play XP.
Lol, I made another name to duo with a friend of mine that just started. I found the lower levels to be much much more toxic to be honest. You noticing less poor behavior awhile back was because the tribunal was actually doing it's job lol. Now, players aren't be punished for anything other than "verbal abuse" with any regularity. Hence, more toxic players since there are more players trolling around without fear of being punished for it. I mean, I literally got a 34 chat restrictions for telling a flaming teammate to "calm the fuck down". I was amazed.
Riot has taken a stance that it is ok to troll around and intentionally feed, but it is punishable to say anything to the person doing it because "They are having fun and it's a bad game. You shouldn't ruin their fun", forgetting the fact that the one player ruins the game for 9 others. This has caused a more toxic environment in my opinion. This game is way worse than when I started playing in season 3. You can't fix the problem by covering up the reaction to it. Just my two cents at least.
Mecha MaIphite2 votes"You are bad at this game so you are not allowed to play."
Kek.
Nucleophilic atk1 votesActually, I said nothing of the sort. You should probably take some reading comprehension classes :).
Mecha MaIphite1 votesIf you don't know the difference between trolling and having a crappy game, you should probably take some... common sense classes?
Nucleophilic atk1 votesSo, your example of having a crappy game is picking a champ you have never played, running right into the enemy to die on purpose, and deliberately losing the game? Ok then.
Riftasaurus Rex2 votesI submit to you the conjecture if we change the report feature to "don't match with again" it would in turn make an overall better experience. I believe this will improve the experience of the game, naturally take care of the excessive reporters and reportees, and take away the individualistic view of when one is harassing, trolling, etc.
The experience of the game would change for the better if we had people not waiting till the end of the game to report, and rather if we combined a "do not match again" feature with the requirement that you select a new option to permanently mute a player In game. With this scenario a player would have to permanently mute the person they feel is undesirable, and it can't be undone in that game. If a player was permanently muted THEN you could select to never play with that person again. This would make people not able to argue in game if they wanted to take action after game to avoid a player.
People that report or get reported excessively will find a longer wait time to find a match. This keeps the burden on the people acting undesirably and doesn't affect the normal populous. It employs elements of natural selection instead of the special selection of the tribunal cases.
With this methods' natural selection type outcomes of your behavior, it eliminates the gravity of opinionistic views of the few. With special selection, the few are deciding to remove someone for the entire community. This creates a probability contingency that some players will be very unlucky and get banned from playing with players that do not appreciate their attitude when if they played with a different part of the populous they would have avoided even getting reported. This of course is a failure of the system that isn't performing in a fair manner for all.
Please lets give up on this report system and cut to the chase of what we want. That is not to play with the person we would be reporting. If you don't want that person to play ever again, not just never play with you again, because of how they treated you, I say you have some vengeance type attitude associated with this feeling; which we should not condone. Also if you don't want them to ever play again for the good of the community we must realise we are not all the same and what is offensive to some is fine with others, meaning we just can't decide for the community based off of our personal feelings.
Nucleophilic atk1 votesHomeboy, I've started this trend many months ago.
Riftasaurus Rex1 votesWell great minds think alike I guess, I agree with the problems you point out that high elos would create. I think if they implemented the system so it only changed who could be on your team and not who you vs. This is because there is high risk of slowing down your matchmaking dramatically if you block a bunch of people at that level and you can't get around facing anyone. Still potentially only getting the teammates of your choice could be an unfair advantage so there would need to be some excessive blocking block in place that would remove all of your blocks if you started to block a large portion populous.
Nucleophilic atk1 votesYeah, but if they made if for like a day, it would help to fix the low elo problem, while not braking the high elos. Or we could make it for like gold/plat and down. With the number of people there, it would be pretty difficult to even attempt to abuse.
Riftasaurus Rex1 votesOr how about if it was a % of your elo blocked restriction it would fix this problem. Where it would be almost impossible for a bronze-gold to block lets say 30-50% of people in your elo it would be easy for anybody above gold.
Raptamei1 votesThat is precisely how Heroes of the Storm works. Reports in that game only prevent people from getting matched together and do not actually ban anyone.
Nucleophilic atk1 votesWhy is this type of behavior defended by Riot?
Nucleophilic atk1 votesI'm just not sure how riot doesn't consider this "toxic" gameplay.
Nucleophilic atk1 votesAlso, what are you going to do about the troll that just locked in adc 5th pick even though we already had an adc riot? Nothing. Because you defend trolls in this game for some reason.