@Riot, please bring back Oracles to Summoner's Rift.

Canastus·3/6/2014, 6:43:58 PM·9 votes·3,028 views

I feel the current vision system is pretty lackluster when it comes down to dealing with stealthed champions, especially assassins. The limitation of pink wards and their blatant visibility have crippled counter-mechanics against those champions severely.

As a midlaner it's impossible to ward both sides of your lane with pinks, neither can you secure vision in every single brush since you're restricted to having only one pink per champion. The sweeper-trinket is more or less useless against stealth-junglers since their ganks are extremely unpredictable. It gets even worse once said stealth champion is fed, from that moment on you're dead the second you encounter one.

So where's the counterplay which you value so much? Because I don't see it.

28 Comments

exec33/7/2014, 8:08:16 AM4 votes

To me Oracle's felt like a crutch to justify broken stealth mechanics and a broken ward system. Is the new system perfect? Hell no. But it's a step in the right direction and there are already plans in the works to fix a lot of the issues the new system has brought such as Xypherous hinting that Teemo's shrooms will be getting a remake to add actual gameplay.

cleedude3/7/2014, 2:20:25 AM4 votes

The problem is there is no counter to the invisible champs. Even if everyone gets a vision ward, those remain visible and they get taken out by any decent support. Leaves us with wasted gold, and still shrooms and jack in the boxes all over with... drumroll... no counter.

Gorbache3/6/2014, 7:06:11 PM3 votes

The reason you don't like is exactly the reason why they removed oracles. Now those champions have the advantage of having a stealth component. Before, especially in pro matches, you wouldn't play anybody with stealth because it was completely counter-played. There is counterplay right now, just not "I see it because of my pink wards I have everywhere.

As a mid it changes how you need to play, but not much more than if you play against a Leblanc, you still change how you play because you can be zero'ed down to 0 pretty fast. (or other scenarios that require you to change how you play depending on your opponent).

MrRado3/7/2014, 6:37:10 PM2 votes

Unranked, but I do have some opinions based on observation.

I don't want to see Oracles in any of its original incarnations. What I'd prefer instead is just a few additional vision options such as the Lightbringer from non-SR maps (tweaked stats if necessary).

Point is, map roaming and just constantly clearing wards is not only boring, but the power from an Oracles purchase (especially if it doesn't fade on death) is pretty ridiculous with little effort.

That said, there are clear issues with some champions. The changes I would make would be....

reduce green wards per champ to 2x
give green wards a small "see invis" radius of about 25%
- so it can see stealth champs, but only if they pass very close to it
increase health of pinks to 8 hits, and expand range by 25%
- need more options to defend them
introduce additional vision items (Lightbringer) and invent "fogging" items

I've always felt that the vision and stealth part of matches should have plenty more options for tactical decisions beyond champion picks and standard wards but also in form of itemization.

Niche champion design and current champion redesign/tweaking could help as well.

edit - I do like trinkets as well. How about a trinket that made you invisible to all wards/sight effects for 3 seconds? BUSH JUKES AHOY!

Doug Ford3/8/2014, 10:23:32 PM2 votes

I get what Riot is trying to do with the vision changes, and they have a lot of valid reasons to do it.

However, I am not at all satisfied with the Red Trinket. It seems to have been created with the mindset of clearing wards rather than being effective against all other invisible things on the map. The Red Trinket does its intended job effectively, it is good at clearing out a ward or two in a valuable area without being able to seek out and destroy every ward on the map like Oracles Elixir used to.

Now that Shacos, Teemo shrooms, large cats and smelly rats have domain over the rift, the Red Trinket just isn't able to deal with them effectively.

I've been thinking of a new Oracles-esque item, and while I can't come up with a creative name, (Oracles tonic? I'm bad at this) duration, or a price for it here's my idea on its function:

Grants vision of nearby invisible enemy traps and champions
DOES NOT grant vision of nearby enemy sight wards

I don't know if this has already been talked about, but personally I'd spend some extra gold to see that Shaco that just avoided death with his Q, or the Rengar that might just be sneaking to the back lines. Not to mention the peace of mind of walking through my jungle without fear of being maimed by mushrooms.

I'd love to hear your feedback, or revisions on this.

Canastus6/22/2014, 3:53:35 PM1 votes

Bump, Oracle's needs to return. The current stealth champions are impossible to deal with as long as the options to shut them down are so massively limited.

Ryuunaga3/7/2014, 6:29:25 PM1 votes

How about you build hextech sweeper or lightbringer?

LexCor3/8/2014, 12:15:27 AM1 votes

Please god no. Stealth was absolutely useless when Oracle's was around in any major capacity.

Your concerns are also pretty easy to work around. Stealth junglers fall off much harder than a lot of their counterparts, and stealth warding a fringe camp will help you keep an eye on them to gauge risk of being ganked.

Sweeper is excellent, especially with the upgrade. There can't be any confusion here. It's an investment that can help suppress an enemy stealth champion's advantage. It protects against the two trap champions and gives you a reveal for stealth assassin players for a healthy portion of time.

It sounds like you've been camped and that's frustrating you. Learn to adapt. Play defensively, hug your turrets, have your allies shove without risk of jungler presence, etc...

Remlap12233/8/2014, 3:57:09 AM1 votes

I wish they reintroduced Elixir of Agility, simply because it's extremely helpful to ADCs once you complete your build (or just can't buy anything else at the time). Oracle's elixir, however, made playing stealth champions useless, simply because they could always be targeted, and stealth champions are meant to be able to disappear due to their natural squishiness. Let me show you how many champions would be absolutely useless if Oracle's came back into the game: Akali Evelynn Khazix Rengar Shaco Talon Teemo Twitch MonkeyKing Zed . That's quite a bit of Olafing from just one item...

LoLoLegends3/8/2014, 11:48:08 AM1 votes

Rather than bring back oracles, I'd love to see them add a passive effect to ruby sightstone that created a true sight radius around the champ that bought it. Not a big one, say 200-300 units or about the size of a melee auto attack range.

Just something that reveals wards when you walk over them, and (if you have good reflexes) it's work for shrooms too. Sweepers would still be needed for checking at range, but the RS passive would help clear the ones you walk right over.

But no, I don't think they should increase counter play against Eve (and to a lesser extent Twitch, Vayne, Rango, Kha, Akali, etc). Pink wards are cheap, and stealth (as currently implemented) is really not that OP.