I could write a book on how insurmountable it would be to eliminate this element from the game but this video does well enough I think.
I'll simply say that you can punish after the fact but that does not stop it from happening in the first place and caution has to be taken when judging those that provide your income.
Dataless3 votesYeah, I'm sorry , but no.
"Powerlessness" is a victim-mentality problem, and it's a problem that effects 99.9% of the human race without knowing it. The average League of Legends player has no emotional discipline and no mental fortitude, the average player is incapable of accepting responsibility for their own actions and instead defers it via the process of "blaming". This blame quickly escalates into personal attacks, and emotions get involved. The end result is a player who is emotionally vulnerable and subjected, time and time again, to verbal abuse over things that have NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM.
What happens next is nihilism, and from here trolls and "toxic" players are born. When a player enters into a nihilism mentality they lose faith not only in themselves, but also in whoever they play the game with. They adopt a "devil may care" attitude about the game and, seeking to cover up their own emotional vulnerability, they become that very thing which hurt them, and thus perpetuate the cycle. Let me give an example:
player a likes to play mid lane, but he is last pick and winds up having to fill in the role of support, much to his chagrin. During the course of the game, player b (who is playing mid) has a bad game and feeds the enemy mid lane, this has a cascading effect on the mental and emotional state of the team. Player a, who is already frustrated over having to play a role he does not like, now verbally attacks player b. Player a, with his over-inflated ego (and let's face it we ALL have over-inflated ego's - even the best of us) thinks only about HIMSELF and how HE could have crushed the mid lane match if player b hadn't "STOLEN HIS ROLE" and now the entire game is a waste of time. The fact of the matter is player a never stopped once to consider the feelings of player b, or even considered rallying to his teammates side and offering words of encouragement, nope. Burn the witch.
As the game goes on, the situation gets more and more out of hand. Because player a is too busy being angry at player b, he isn't paying attention to his own lane, and fails to notice the incoming jungle gank, resulting in the enemy adc getting a double kill, tower, and dragon. Now, with multiple lanes snowballing against them, the team breaks down and ultimately loses the game.
Player a is incredibly angry, and vows to never let anyone else have "his role" ever again. From that point forward, any time he enters champion select he threatens his new teammates (who are completely unaware) that he will "mid or troll". If player a does not get mid lane, he purposely engages in toxic behavior and does his damnedest to lose the game for his team, feeling that there is no point in playing if he can't have what he wants. The rest of his team now feels as though they are being held hostage, and player a feels powerful and in control because he has everyone firmly grasped in his power-control drama.
Here's the kicker, player a has no actual power over anyone, it's all an illusion.
In this scenario, player a is unable to cope with not being able to have his way, and blames player b for all of the negative emotions that he is experiencing as a result. He is unwilling to consider the emotions of player b because he is too busy thinking about himself. He holds player b responsible and blames, judges, and criticizes to an absurd degree. The problem is player a has no emotional discipline, he is unable to accept defeat, even when it's player b who is the one struggling. In his mind, player a is being forced to watch "some idiot" lose "HIS" lane and he is unable to do anything about it. Player a then decides to threaten & bully other players who had NOTHING to do with his previous game in hopes of getting his way. Player a has lost any ability to relate to, or sympathize with the other human beings he is playing with. Player a is now a nihilist.
The most hilarious part is that somehow people think that this is Riot Game's problem to fix, when they couldn't be further from the truth. Hell, maybe even Riot thinks that they have to fix this problem. The truth of the matter is that there isn't a damn thing that Riot can do because it was never their issue in the first place. This is an entirely player-based issue, and only the players can fix it. I don't care how many bans Riot issues, how many top behavioral scientists they hire, or how many learning algorithms they program to track and catch toxic behavior, the problem will NEVER go away until the player base collectively gets over itself. The PLAYERS need to be able to accept responsibility for their own actions, and learn to deal with their emotions in a healthy, positive way. When a player dies they need to be able to own up to their fuck up, and absolve themselves of whatever guilt they are feeling over it. On the same token their teammates need to be able to recognize and ALLOW them to fuck up, apologize, and move on. Latching onto failure only causes the cycle to repeat over and over again. The problem is a total lack of self-awareness and empathy.
Everyone wants to win, and everyone wants to be to be the best. That's what happens when people are passionate about something, but without discipline and control that same passion and drive will erupt into a roaring inferno that will consume you and everyone around you. Success is often equated to an iceberg because, to the casual observer all you see is the very top. The reality is success is built upon a mountain of failures, you have to be willing to look harder in order to truly see that.
Players need to stop thinking about "me" and more about "we". Players need to recognize that defeat is a good thing, it's affirmation that you have room to grow and improve, defeat is the motivation to try harder, to accept weakness and make it strength. When you look at it like that, you are never powerless in a game. Even if your entire team feeds every game is an opportunity for YOU to play your best and improve, nobody can take that from you. You are never a hostage to a players poor behavior because you can CHOOSE to simply mute them and keep playing. You are never stuck being a toxic player either because you can CHOOSE to behave better whenever you want. You never have to languish in despair over losing a game because you can CHOOSE to be applaud your foe in their victory.
Because one of the things we most often forget is that on the other end of the screen is another human being who thinks and feels just like you do, and it's up to you to make the choice: am I part of the problem, or the solution? Nobody else can fix it for you, but you have all the power, and all the responsibility.
Vistha Kai2 votesThen Lyte will tell you that it's internet's fault, because nobody was moderating it and everybody was allowed to insult each other.
I haven't seen a forum on the internet that tolerated racial slurs, insulting each other etc. that would be unacceptable in any or most real life situations.
I remember how I used to play Metin2 as a little kid that just started learning how to internet. There was a public thread on the forum with names of everybody who were banned, for how long and what for.
In League of Legends you can't even tell if a person who was an absolute dick to you got banned or not, for some fucking unfathomable reason. Best response to that was "because people would reverse engineer our system and exploit it".
Riot, do you really expect a troll who trash-talks people every game to go throught that lengthy process of gathering all the information to maybe, just maybe, not get punished? You are deluded, hopeless(ironically) company that doesn't care and doesn't trust it's own source of income.
Toxicity starts in your headquarters. Ban yourselves.
Space Bum1 votesWhy do you need a wall of heads? Who is going to search out this wall of heads so that they may have the fear of Zod struck into them?
Vistha Kai1 votesI'm just saying that informations about assholes were public. Riot refuses to give us any information, because we could use said information aganist THEM. Like... what? What kind of reason is that suppose to be?
Space Bum2 votesThe only public place it would ever exist would be on the boards. The boards are a very small percentage of the community. Who really wants to look at a list of names of banned players? If it existed it would never get looked at because it is uninteresting.
Vistha Kai1 votesUse your imagination. That was just an example.
I can spam reports every game or not even know I can report people. The outcome for me is the same, while it shouldn't be.
Jubbinaut1 votesIt's not, really. If you're spamming reports every game, there's a very good chance that a) your abuse of the report feature will make your use of the report feature meaningless and b) you earn yourself a ban for attempting to abuse said system.
Meanwhile, if you're unaware of the ability to report people, you're simply failing to report - no negative consequences to yourself.
Vistha Kai2 votesa) your abuse of the report feature will make your use of the report feature meaningless
Riot never teaches you when you should report somebody.
I assume that when a person is sitting in the fountain for the first 10 minutes they are eligible to be report for AFK even if they come back. When somebody trash-talks to others constantly, they are eligible to be reported for negative/harrassment/offensive (what's the difference between those three anyway?) When somebody is constantly under enemy tower and dies 15 times, they are eligible to be reported for intentional feeding.
If I'll report people like that and that makes my reports mean less or nothing, then why exactly is this function still in the game?
b) you earn yourself a ban for attempting to abuse said system.
Funny, since it is supposedly designed to not be abusable. Never heard about any repercussions for reporting other than what you mentioned in a).
IIRC asking for honors can earn you a punishment.
SmokedAlmonds2 votes[{quoted}](name=Vistha Kai,realm=EUNE,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=b6bdBqW5,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-05-17T22:17:37.918+0000)
Riot never teaches you when you should report somebody.
I assume that when a person is sitting in the fountain for the first 10 minutes they are eligible to be report for AFK even if they come back. When somebody trash-talks to others constantly, they are eligible to be reported for negative/harrassment/offensive (what's the difference between those three anyway?) When somebody is constantly under enemy tower and dies 15 times, they are eligible to be reported for intentional feeding.
If I'll report people like that and that makes my reports mean less or nothing, then why exactly is this function still in the game?
No one thinks thinks thats what you mean when you say "spam punishments". They are thinking like you report every single person
Funny, since it is supposedly designed to not be abusable. Never heard about any repercussions for reporting other than what you mentioned in a).
IIRC asking for honors can earn you a punishment.
There was definitely at least 1 ban wave for people who were over reporting. But it wasn't for people that like found a few to many reasons to report. It was like people who report 80% of the people they play with.
Honestly I don't even know what function the report weights even serve anymore. Before its what decided what cases ended up in the tribunal. They still talk about report weights so I assume it still exists but I don't know what it does now that text is being reviewed by the system. The only thing I can think of is that it takes a lot of processing power to review the reports so they still use the reporting weights to decide who gets reviewed.
Vistha Kai1 votesNo one thinks thinks thats what you mean when you say "spam punishments". They are thinking like you report every single person.
I report and ignore 2-3 people from my team on average in addition to those from the enemy team, that showed any behaviour deserving a report. Usually it's mostly limited to my team, tho. Guess that's way below 80%. Still my ignore list counts in hundreds if not thousands.
Jubbinaut1 votes[{quoted}](name=Vistha Kai,realm=EUNE,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=b6bdBqW5,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-05-17T22:17:37.918+0000)
Riot never teaches you when you should report somebody.
Well, they tried, at least. https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752884-Reporting-a-Player
I assume that when a person is sitting in the fountain for the first 10 minutes they are eligible to be report for AFK even if they come back. When somebody trash-talks to others constantly, they are eligible to be reported for negative/harrassment/offensive (what's the difference between those three anyway?) When somebody is constantly under enemy tower and dies 15 times, they are eligible to be reported for intentional feeding.
If I'll report people like that and that makes my reports mean less or nothing, then why exactly is this function still in the game?
If your reports are issued for valid complaints, then there's no abuse. So there's no concern about losing report weight. The term "spamming," however, indicates a use of the report system that bears no relation to validity (or lack thereof).
Funny, since it is supposedly designed to not be abusable. Never heard about any repercussions for reporting other than what you mentioned in a).
Nothing is completely impossible to abuse. And even if such abuse causes no actual harm to the reported players, it still gunks up the system itself (those reports still have to be handled by the system, even if it only tosses them away), causing it to run slower.
There's been a couple waves of bans for report abuse, some time back. It's almost entirely unheard of now, because players tend not to try to abuse the system to that extent. But Lyte's gone on record stating that if they do, bans are still on the table as a potential consequence.
IIRC asking for honors can earn you a punishment.
So can calling for reports.
Vistha Kai1 votesWell, they tried, at least. https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752884-Reporting-a-Player
http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/do.gif I find it funny that 5) implies Morgana support is/was an off-meta. The biggest issue is that this article never appeared anywhere else, such as an in-client "news" and isn't really available for people that aren't actively looking for it.
So can calling for reports.
Then why half of the community hasn't been banned yet?
Jubbinaut1 votes[{quoted}](name=Vistha Kai,realm=EUNE,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=b6bdBqW5,comment-id=000100000000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2015-05-19T00:06:21.872+0000)
http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/do.gif I find it funny that 5) implies Morgana support is/was an off-meta.
At the time, it was.
The biggest issue is that this article never appeared anywhere else, such as an in-client "news" and isn't really available for people that aren't actively looking for it.
I agree. Which is why I said "they tried," rather than flatly correcting your statement. The information is available - as is a lot of information regarding the behavior systems as a whole - but people tend not to see it, in no small part because Riot's communication regarding those systems is... lamentable.
Then why half of the community hasn't been banned yet?
Because a) calling for reports is a minor issue - by itself, it's unlikely to earn a ban; b) it requires a certain threshold of reported games before an account is even reviewed, and most players simply aren't reported that often.
SmokedAlmonds1 votes[{quoted}](name=I Like Hugs,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=b6bdBqW5,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2015-05-17T20:24:48.515+0000)
The only public place it would ever exist would be on the boards. The boards are a very small percentage of the community. Who really wants to look at a list of names of banned players? If it existed it would never get looked at because it is uninteresting.
I don't think a list would be of any use but I wouldn't mind a semi regular report that was like x chat restrictions handed out, y temp bans, z permanent bans though.
I do agree that you will never get rid of it completelly. There will always be people who have a bad day and then take it out on people in game. BUT it could be a lot less than it is.
Raptamei1 votesIn HotS, toxicity isn't even a report reason, and there's a lot less of it than in League.
Why? Because League is designed to encourage toxicity, and HotS is designed to mitigate it.
League has a massive design flaw in that you win as a team but are encouraged and rewarded for selfish play at the cost of your team. The only punishment for playing like an egotistical ass is the eventual loss, but you've received so many awards at that point in the form of gold, score and multikills that you can easily blame your team, while people who actually play to win end up with a few more deaths and less gold and feel horrible about it.
Space Bum1 votesPeople don't like to lose. I've seen ragers in every game that I have played were other players who are there to work with you can effect the chances of you winning. You say a lot less? So you are admitting that it exists in Hots. I don't know of any magic scale that measures a games overall level of toxicity, because it does not exist and it all boils down to personal experience.
Matthias91192 votesIn HotS, toxicity isn't even a report reason, and there's a lot less of it than in League.
...I'm curious to see how that changes once 1) the game's out of beta and open to the unwashed masses and 2) people actually start playing their equivalent of Ranked Solo queue seriously.
