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Is our community really toxic?

Nin10do0014··9 votes·1,450 views

Hello, League of Legends players.

So everywhere I go, forums, YouTube videos, in-game chat, and even Facebook, I always see the one thing people associate with the League of community: toxicity. I just find it so sad that our whole player base is labeled as one toxic group of gamers. I just find it sad that the good teammates who wish for everyone to have fun are not recognized. I just find it sad that no matter where I go, my automatic first impression to my teammates is "He could be toxic."

Yes, I acknowledge that there are indeed players out there who wish the worst upon others, whether it be horrible diseases, a death of a family member, or just straight up death. However, it is impossible for our whole community to be like this. That would be like labeling the entire Halo community as a bunch of 343 Industries haters. In fact, it's a minority of players who are like this, and the illusion that the whole community is toxic comes from the raw number of players encountered each game.

Statistically, let's say that only 5% of the player base is indeed toxic. Each game has 10 people. There is actually quite a high chance that one of those players wants to wish cancer or call everyone mentally ill. Out of every 10 games, which involves 100 people total, 5 players in that collection are statistically going to be toxic. They might be all in 1 or 2 games, or they could be in an unfortunate 5 of those 10 games. Hence, it's just unfortunate that it's hard to avoid these players completely.

However, should we really condemn the whole community for even just a minority of our player population? I don't think I should be considered potentially toxic because of a few loose cannons, and I don't think my teammate over there should be either. I am not saying that our community is purely good, but what I do believe is that if just that one player is raging and being a total D-bag, the rest of the players shouldn't be condemned for it.

Anyway, that's just my two cents on this community.

37 Comments

Sir ArmaMalum2 votes

This is a much more all-ecompassing topic than most realize.

First off, you're close with your stat guesses. Lyte (lead in Riot's behaviour team) claims that about 1% of the community are truly negative players, and by that he means consistently toxic. Whereas ~90% of the playerbase is neutral (rarely chats) and ~10% of the community is regularly positive/sportsmanlike. Most of the time toxicity comes not from a regularly bad player but from a neutral/positive player on a bad swing. As far as this coloring our entire community's generalization I'll lend that to several factors, chief among them being isolation.

Each game is an isolated 'cage match' where you're stuck with each other, making it a far cry from trolls/ragers in other games where you can jump somewhere else at any time. Not only that, the result of your time investment is completely dependent on this guy/gal you're not getting along with. To anyone not already very practiced in that kind of environment (i.e. traditional sports if we were somehow able to 'matchmake') it's like pulling teeth, and still is a horrible time for those used to it. So while, yes, I agree with you that the generalization is producing unfair assumptions on an individual level League's nature amplifies a negative experience so much I don't really blame them.

Daen1 votes

To piggyback off this, I want to reiterate one point Arma made:

Each game is an isolated 'cage match' where you're stuck with each other

This is just part of the genre, unfortunately, but there are three very distinct things that can be done to help alleviate this problem:

  • Make games less isolated
  • Allow players an out if the cage match gets dangerous

These are really simple abstractions of much more complex innards, but here's how it works. If the community is more connected throughout the experience and between games, each individual cage match is less isolated. You are still playing with somewhat random people, but there's some connective tissue there. These connections allow people to blow off steam a bit easier and lean on each other for support, which ultimately helps dial down the crazy within the cage.

As for allowing an out, this is mainly intended as a way to help players deal with in-game problems that are entirely out of their control. An example of this is when someone never connects to the game; it's unfair from the start, and it's extraordinarily frustrating to be forced into spending at least 20 minutes in a knowingly unfair situation.

There is one more big contributor to this problem, but it's a lot harder to solve. Per-player-per-game consistency is pretty low in a lot of situations; two Gold IIIs against each other might be, in that game, playing two tiers apart in skill level. Player 1 could be having an awesome game and player 2 is having a terrible one, and this directly affects everyone else playing. Arguably this can't be solved, but I believe it can at least be helped.

Let's say two players each play 5 games, matching against each other each time. Each player has an average skill level of let's say 6, which is why they are both Gold III. Here's how their skill per game might play out:

Player 1: 10 4 2 8 6 Player 2: 6 6 6 5 7

Player 2 is clearly more consistent, but player 1 has flashes of much higher level play interspersed with extremely weak play for his or her level. It's very possible this could be attributed to a lack of some part of the mechanics of the game. What if there were instructional tools in place that allowed a higher percentage of people to be more like player 2? Theoretically, games could become a lot more fair. Team Builder might be a good start.

I'd say that our community isn't overall toxic, but it's very easy for toxicity to sprout and spread. I don't attribute a lot of this to the community itself, however; I feel that the socialization systems in League play a huge part in facilitating the high level of toxicity this community has. This is not something that can be fixed by punishment, it has to be done through mitigation and increased ability to connect with each other.

Yandere Carry1 votes

or player 1 plays a style that is very snowbally. do you expect a system to be put in place to account for certain champ picks?

Kazaashi2 votes

I think the best thing that can happen is just remove chat. It's just troll bait.

Pæan1 votes

I just try to not use all-chat except when I know I can have fun talking with the enemy laner. If people are incredibly toxic then I'll mute them, the worst thing they can do is ping spam, then Ill just mute pings in the options :/

The ability to talk with my adc or jungler really helps out early game though, so I wouldn't want to loss that.

air tiger2 votes

I agree that the truly toxic players make up a small % of the total population, but there's a catch. Toxicity spreads, and when you're stuck in a game with a troll/feeder/asshole, the negativity can and does easily spread to their team and to your team.

So, no, not everyone is toxic. Yet, those with the loudest voices are heard.

Hugh Drectum1 votes

[{quoted}](name=air tiger,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=aR3UkTW2,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-03-23T21:26:51.481+0000)

I agree that the truly toxic players make up a small % of the total population, but there's a catch. Toxicity spreads, and when you're stuck in a game with a troll/feeder/asshole, the negativity can and does easily spread to their team and to your team.

So, no, not everyone is toxic. Yet, those with the loudest voices are heard.

Toxic makes up the MAJORITY of the community.

It is a STATE OF MIND implemented by a person whom has NO REAL life experience. Do your research on Lyte...when hes not on REDDIT masturbating hes on there posting and avoiding anything that has to do specifically RIOT made. Why, or how can someone who isn't an active member of the community be the head? He clearly doesn't play, otherwise he would see all the issues caused by things he signs off on.

A person reads what is TYPED...they can't hear your voice. Can't see your face. So a person whom is being critical of them self.. IE the mass majority of the TWEENS in this game... They instantly rage and BM. So they are now the ones "BEING EFFECTED" by the person whom just asked them to "HELP OUT MORE" or "STOP DYING PLEASE"...so the person who is ACTUALLY trying to win...loses on all ends. In game experience has gone to shit. I NEVER used to want to afk...now it seams 3 mins in I have 3 people feeding and 2 of them BMING back and forth. I got better things to do then deal with it, and it all started because somesone has it stuck in their head that TOXIC this and TOXIC that...

Boards are no better then IG either... You see a thumbs downed post...3-10 Times its something that doesn't matter. things like " Fk you and your shit riot"( blah blah blah... we all feel this way how about you stop being individuals while your NOT....believe me we all the mutha fucking same... Ive traveled the world...there's like 7 billion humans... YOUR NOT SPECIAL! Then unite and make a difference...)

How ever the other 7-10 of those posts I find to be people making conversational pieces that actually prove a point, or ask a question. I also tend to find that those threads, have the least amount of posts. So you have the AUDACITY to thumbs down someones work, but not take credit or explain why? Go back to grade school...they teach accountability in like 3rd grade. Then again your all prodigies...and RAP STARS, MLG,LCS,PRO ATHLETES AND MUSICIANS.... No child left behind effected our daily life in this country..and online.

I may be ranting now, but my point i think is solid.... Toxic was something planted in the heads of these kids...whom follow vs LEAD.

It has tore a division between the entire community of league players, and Lyte and the riot staff still can't figure out how to fix it.... The answer has always been in their face...

Saint Archer2 votes

i hope that's rhetorical because this community is absolutely disgusting.

Sir Yamazuki2 votes

Well, people don't understand it is a minority and that there's people like this in every game community, and community in general. There is no perfect community, but people like to act like x community is better than y, when both are just as bad for different reasons. I've played online games for years and every game had a community that was messed up somehow. Whether it was just plain assholes, scammers, or constant drama.

Positive things tend not to get as much attention as negative things either. That 1 guy being a jerk is basically equal to 100 people being neutral or positive. We're also more likely to remember a negative experience than a positive one.

SpongebobIsLife1 votes

league has assholes, scammers, and constant drama :)

Yandere Carry1 votes

It is exaggerated in my opinion, and I believe trying to understand other's reasoning would make things better. What do I know though? Not much really.

Jubbinaut1 votes

To build on what Sir ArmaMalum said:

It's fascinating how often our judgement of people is built entirely from one single moment of shared time.

We experience other members of this community in chunks of ~30 minutes. Often times, that's the only match we'll ever play with that person. Yet it's extremely common for a player who is toxic in only that single match to be defined by that.

But consider how small a part of their life that really is - even limiting it to their time on League. I've only been playing for a couple years, but I've got more than 600 games played (between various modes - mostly ARAM). One single match is a bare fraction of a percent of my total time.

I believe that we, as members of this community, need to stop for reality checks now and then. We need to remind ourselves of just how little we know of most of the players we're working with, and perhaps not pass such harsh judgments as quickly as we do.

S H A Y C 01 votes

Give it enough time...this thread will be trolled hard, and then it will be difficult to argue percentages. Just sayin.

Jubbinaut1 votes

Nah. Because even if it is, it would be a doubly self-selected group - the "trolls" in the thread would only include those who wish to participate on the boards and who further wish to participate in this particular thread.

And from a statistical standpoint, that's simply not representative of anything.

S H A Y C 01 votes

{quoted}

Nah. Because even if it is, it would be a doubly self-selected group - the "trolls" in the thread would only include those who wish to participate on the boards and who further wish to participate in this particular thread.

And from a statistical standpoint, that's simply not representative of anything.

From a statistical standpoint, every fraction of data is representative of something, because that's how statistics are made...collecting and analyzing data. If your post is based off your last statement, it makes the entirety of the argument lacking any substance, because it is based on false pretense.

In and of itself, a troll trolling this thread is at the very least representative of Trolls in the community. If as you say it would only represent a select group, we could then extrapolate outward from what trolls were attracted here and posit a rough estimate of how many trolls could hypothetically be in the community. Because as you stated earlier:

This post is a subset of the forum community, which is a subset of the league community. some % of the forum community comes here. some % of them are trolls. its just a really hard math problem that i can't do. 1% of 10% of 100% for example.

Jubbinaut1 votes

[{quoted}](name=ToiletteOfDoom ,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=aR3UkTW2,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2015-03-24T13:58:14.419+0000)

From a statistical standpoint, every fraction of data is representative of something, because that's how statistics are made...collecting and analyzing data. If your post is based off your last statement, it makes the entirety of the argument lacking any substance, because it is based on false pretense.

Perhaps, but whether that data is meaningful or not depends strongly on how biased it is.

Regardless, I was using the term "representative" in the sense of a representative sample. One of the biases that calls question to whether or not a sample is representative is the self-selection bias.

Since posting on the boards is an example of self-selection bias, any statistical data gathered purely from the boards that attempts to speak to the larger community suffers from a sampling error.

S H A Y C 01 votes

{quoted}

Perhaps, but whether that data is meaningful or not depends strongly on how biased it is.

Regardless, I was using the term "representative" in the sense of a representative sample. One of the biases that calls question to whether or not a sample is representative is the self-selection bias.

Since posting on the boards is an example of self-selection bias, any statistical data gathered purely from the boards that attempts to speak to the larger community suffers from a sampling error.

Thats absolutely true. It still speaks, no matter how softly, to their presence in the community. It may be more of a symptom than the plague itself, but fancy statistical jargon shouldn't be allowed to minimize the dark side to league of legends. I dont care whay lyte says is the "hard statistics" I run into at least one jerk in 9/10 games, forget the statistics for a second. If a new player experiences D-Bags at least once a game session, lets call that 4 games a night...His experiential "statistic" feels to him like "every time i play i am told to kill myself, uninstall league, and trolled really hard" even though it was only one out of 4 games and only one person, his experience is contaminated by that individual. Which is why i am debating with you so hard. Sure it may only be a small percentage of people, but its effects are bad enough that a larger number of the people "feel" like the entire community is crap. "one bad apple spoils the whole barrel" this is a very similar situation, and it is less statistical than it is psychological.

Jubbinaut1 votes

[{quoted}](name=ToiletteOfDoom ,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=aR3UkTW2,comment-id=00030000000000000000,timestamp=2015-03-24T16:30:48.241+0000)

Thats absolutely true. It still speaks, no matter how softly, to their presence in the community. It may be more of a symptom than the plague itself, but fancy statistical jargon shouldn't be allowed to minimize the dark side to league of legends.

The fact of their existence was never in question. Neither is the fact that - to some extent - they will always exist.

I dont care whay lyte says is the "hard statistics" I run into at least one jerk in 9/10 games, forget the statistics for a second.

That's actually fairly close to the expected average. Some people experience more, some people experience less. One important thing to remember is that most of the toxicity we see in game actually comes from players who are usually positive - not from dedicated trolls. That's why the behavioral systems are so heavily focused on reform.

If a new player experiences D-Bags at least once a game session, lets call that 4 games a night...His experiential "statistic" feels to him like "every time i play i am told to kill myself, uninstall league, and trolled really hard" even though it was only one out of 4 games and only one person, his experience is contaminated by that individual.

Yes. That's a negativity bias. A psychological flaw in reasoning that's extremely common. There's not much that can be done about that except for better education. However, minimizing the toxicity at low levels by disincentivizing "dodging" penalties (by playing on smurfs) has shown quite a bit of promise - thus we have Ranked Restrictions and Chat Restrictions, and I expect we may see further "per game" punishments (as opposed to time-limited punishments such as bans).

Which is why i am debating with you so hard. Sure it may only be a small percentage of people, but its effects are bad enough that a larger number of the people "feel" like the entire community is crap. "one bad apple spoils the whole barrel" this is a very similar situation, and it is less statistical than it is psychological.

As counter-intuitive as it may seem, if we removed all of the toxic players, it would only reduce the overall amount of toxicity by about 10%. In his 2013 Play Nice talk at MIT, Lyte broke the community down into 4 groups, and showed what percentage of visible toxicity could be attributed to each of those groups.

  • "Good" players made up 78% of the community
  • But they demonstrated 77% of the toxicity in the game.
  • "Neutral" players made up 14% of the community
  • But they generated 10% of the toxicity in the game
  • "Bad" or borderline players made up 7% of the community
  • But they generated 8% of the toxicity in the game
  • "Toxic" players made up just 1% of the community
  • But they generated 5% of the toxicity in the game

Now, I'm sure those numbers have shifted a bit - it has been almost two years since he gave that talk. But I think they speak well to the point: most of the "jerks" that you see in your games probably aren't really jerks. I mean, sure, they're acting like jerks, but in all likelihood, they're probably nice most of the time.

And I think that's important to remember.

S H A Y C 01 votes

{quoted}

The fact of their existence was never in question. Neither is the fact that - to some extent - they will always exist.

That's actually fairly close to the expected average. Some people experience more, some people experience less. One important thing to remember is that most of the toxicity we see in game actually comes from players who are usually positive - not from dedicated trolls. That's why the behavioral systems are so heavily focused on reform.

Yes. That's a negativity bias. A psychological flaw in reasoning that's extremely common. There's not much that can be done about that except for better education. However, minimizing the toxicity at low levels by disincentivizing "dodging" penalties (by playing on smurfs) has shown quite a bit of promise - thus we have Ranked Restrictions and Chat Restrictions, and I expect we may see further "per game" punishments (as opposed to time-limited punishments such as bans).

As counter-intuitive as it may seem, if we removed all of the toxic players, it would only reduce the overall amount of toxicity by about 10%. In his 2013 Play Nice talk at MIT, Lyte broke the community down into 4 groups, and showed what percentage of visible toxicity could be attributed to each of those groups.

  • "Good" players made up 78% of the community
  • But they demonstrated 77% of the toxicity in the game.
  • "Neutral" players made up 14% of the community
  • But they generated 10% of the toxicity in the game
  • "Bad" or borderline players made up 7% of the community
  • But they generated 8% of the toxicity in the game
  • "Toxic" players made up just 1% of the community
  • But they generated 5% of the toxicity in the game

Now, I'm sure those numbers have shifted a bit - it has been almost two years since he gave that talk. But I think they speak well to the point: most of the "jerks" that you see in your games probably aren't really jerks. I mean, sure, they're acting like jerks, but in all likelihood, they're probably nice most of the time.

And I think that's important to remember.

Well, thank you for forgetting the statistics by giving me more....much appreciated. But even though its a "flaw" the effects of that flaw are very powerful. Have you ever gone to a new place, been treated poorly by 1 maybe 2 people and decided that "place" is bad and you wont return ever again? feel free to blow your horn about logical fallacy and misconceptions and wonderful statistics with powerpoints...The human condition will remain intact at the end of the day, and your wonderful college thesis you've presented for us will NOT prevent a large number of people from having an awful experience and deciding to walk away and never return and even long time players will eventually walk away.

Eleshakai1 votes

[{quoted}](name=ToiletteOfDoom ,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=aR3UkTW2,comment-id=0003000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-03-24T17:09:26.767+0000)

Well, thank you for forgetting the statistics by giving me more....much appreciated. But even though its a "flaw" the effects of that flaw are very powerful. Have you ever gone to a new place, been treated poorly by 1 maybe 2 people and decided that "place" is bad and you wont return ever again? feel free to blow your horn about logical fallacy and misconceptions and wonderful statistics with powerpoints...The human condition will remain intact at the end of the day, and your wonderful college thesis you've presented for us will NOT prevent a large number of people from having an awful experience and deciding to walk away and never return and even long time players will eventually walk away.

Of course most people act that way. But... that doesn't mean YOU have to. By recognizing the reality of things, that it is a misconception you're getting based off of isolated incidents, you can stop reacting that way and start having a better time. And, if you start having a better time, you'll positively influence more people around you. Which can then lead to them recognizing the same.

Understanding the reasons WHY people act that way is the first step to not acting that way yourself, and that's why understanding these trends is so important and why seeing the statistics can be important as well.

S H A Y C 01 votes

So, youre saying that after 2000 + years of mankind treating each other poorly, crucifying anyone who tries to unify them in peace, will suddenly just stop being turds becuase YOU have a pie chart? Honestly I dont even know what we are really talking about anymore. It started with my off the cuff post stating that the trolls will flock here, and the reason was because any post about toxicity attracts them like flies to cow crap.

And you...you showed up. What did you really say anyway? oh yeah i remember, some reason why even if they showed up it wouldnt mean anything.

So, i kinda got trolled for pointing out that trolls will show up.

think about it.

Eleshakai1 votes

[{quoted}](name=ToiletteOfDoom ,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=aR3UkTW2,comment-id=000300000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-03-24T17:23:44.543+0000)

So, youre saying that after 2000 + years of mankind treating each other poorly, crucifying anyone who tries to unify them in peace, will suddenly just stop being turds becuase YOU have a pie chart? Honestly I dont even know what we are really talking about anymore. It started with my off the cuff post stating that the trolls will flock here, and the reason was because any post about toxicity attracts them like flies to cow crap.

And you...you showed up. What did you really say anyway? oh yeah i remember, some reason why even if they showed up it wouldnt mean anything.

So, i kinda got trolled for pointing out that trolls will show up.

think about it.

Nobody trolled you, people tried to have an intelligent discussion with you and you got mad at them for it... I don't even know why you got so upset over someone trying to have a discussion with you. I mean, I've gotten annoyed at Jubb a couple of times, buti t was usually over a strong difference in opinions between us on a few topics, not simply because he tried to start a conversation.

S H A Y C 01 votes

I am not angry. (Can't help but feel that it sounds a heck of a lot like "I did not inhale" maybe im just reading it that way, but i find it hilarious so im leaving it, lol)

Stating that if trolls come and troll a thread doesn't represent that there are trolls and toxic members in the community IS trolling.

Eleshakai1 votes

[{quoted}](name=ToiletteOfDoom ,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=aR3UkTW2,comment-id=00030000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-03-24T18:22:18.687+0000)

I am not angry. (Can't help but feel that it sounds a heck of a lot like "I did not inhale" maybe im just reading it that way, but i find it hilarious so im leaving it, lol)

Stating that if trolls come and troll a thread doesn't represent that there are trolls and toxic members in the community IS trolling.

Forums are not representative. The forums are heavily swayed towards people who are upset with the game and Riot, because otherwise they'd be playing the game. I'd wager at least half the people who post here don't even play anymore, to be honest.

S H A Y C 01 votes

Without one of your fancy pie charts (just teasin you a bit ;) that is hard to calculate, so we can read no more into it that a hunch or hypothesis that hasnt been tested. As a related note i have seen trolls here and ran into them on the rift...still trolling, so we know its not 100% of them that arent playing anymore, but thats all i have on that, so still could be half like you said.

At any rate, even if they dont play, for the players that run into people like this on the rift, then come here to vent or find people that arent like that..they run into a ton of more trolls and how are they to know they dont play anymore. they are active on the forums and appear knowledgeable in most cases about the current game state which further creates (what you claim to be an illusion of sorts) this appearance of an entire community largely comprised of trolly people.

I know the previously given solution is knowledge, but the people trolling really dont care what anybody says...its how their trolly nature was born in the first place...so how does this knowledge prevent them from creating this atmosphere? Is there even a solution to protect new players, and long standing ones from being forced to deal with these people?

Eleshakai1 votes

[{quoted}](name=ToiletteOfDoom ,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=aR3UkTW2,comment-id=0003000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-03-24T20:39:24.331+0000)

Without one of your fancy pie charts (just teasin you a bit ;) that is hard to calculate, so we can read no more into it that a hunch or hypothesis that hasnt been tested. As a related note i have seen trolls here and ran into them on the rift...still trolling, so we know its not 100% of them that arent playing anymore, but thats all i have on that, so still could be half like you said.

At any rate, even if they dont play, for the players that run into people like this on the rift, then come here to vent or find people that arent like that..they run into a ton of more trolls and how are they to know they dont play anymore. they are active on the forums and appear knowledgeable in most cases about the current game state which further creates (what you claim to be an illusion of sorts) this appearance of an entire community largely comprised of trolly people.

I know the previously given solution is knowledge, but the people trolling really dont care what anybody says...its how their trolly nature was born in the first place...so how does this knowledge prevent them from creating this atmosphere? Is there even a solution to protect new players, and long standing ones from being forced to deal with these people?

although I am surprised that you're confusing me with Jubbinaut - since he was the one who posted all the statistics - you're right, it is hard to calculate. But the simple fact that so many of the posts on here are so uninformed(not all by any means) and that so many of them are so negative about EVERYTHING relating to the game tells me that there has to be a significant margin of people who aren't playing anymore posting on here.

Which makes sense since you don't have to pay to post, so it's logical that a lot of people who hate the company/game would post to try to make them look bad out of spite.

Jubbinaut1 votes

[{quoted}](name=ToiletteOfDoom ,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=aR3UkTW2,comment-id=0003000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-03-24T17:09:26.767+0000)

Well, thank you for forgetting the statistics by giving me more....much appreciated.

I don't think that forgetting or ignoring statistical data is helpful in any sense. In fact, I think that would rather lead to more and more flawed thinking.

As I said, I think much of the issues with player's perceptions of trolls would be mitigated by better education regarding the actual facts of the situations they're seeing.

But even though its a "flaw" the effects of that flaw are very powerful. Have you ever gone to a new place, been treated poorly by 1 maybe 2 people and decided that "place" is bad and you wont return ever again?

Excepting the instant judgement, yes. Because I try to be aware that first impressions are not always (or even often) accurate. I know that's not a particularly common trait, and it's one I constantly work at. So that's my perception. Others - even many of my friends - have done so. There's nothing inherently wrong with either.

But to my mind, it's better to be slow to make such judgments, and to do so using as many facts as possible.

feel free to blow your horn about logical fallacy and misconceptions and wonderful statistics with powerpoints...The human condition will remain intact at the end of the day, and your wonderful college thesis you've presented for us will NOT prevent a large number of people from having an awful experience and deciding to walk away and never return and even long time players will eventually walk away.

Perhaps not. Perhaps so. Either way, what would you propose to do about it?

BlazinHot61 votes

I like to think that most of the players in this game are not toxic: we just hold each other to very high standards.

Pæan1 votes

A majority of the players are relatively positive or at least quiet when angry. The thing is, most of the "toxic" players are incredibly outspoken so we hear more from them than we do from others.

Sirsir1 votes

I don't assume everyone is toxic. I give them the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. But quite frankly its just naive to not expect it at this point. Anyone can have a bad day, and if that person is prone to venting on other players that person has the potential to be toxic in a game.

Eleshakai1 votes

This is a subject that's pretty near to me. I've actually written on the subject before.(although the way people reacted to the new leaverbuster thing kind of has me doubting myself but I digress...)

I've done posts trying to encourage people to recognize not only the infrequency of actual negativity in people they play with as well as the differences between 'toxicity' and 'frustration', but also the impact they can have on all of the above by simply being a positive player themself...

It's easy to get into the habit of believing that one negative experience defines a community, a person, etc. but doing so really taints your experience and prevents you from seeing the good. Also, it's easy to assume 'it can't be like this elsewhere' but my experience with the many gaming communities I've been a part of is that they're all relatively similar. But that's not a bad thing if you recognize that there's good and bad all around.

Nucleophilic atk1 votes

Honestly, I find there is a shit ton more toxic gameplay than there is toxic language. It is not rare to see someone playing a first time champ, feeding, afking, and just losing the game on purpose. Most of the time I see someone flaming, is because someone is intentionally losing the game. I'm not sure why Riot decided to try and address the "toxic language" aspect instead of fixing the cause of it, but I don't work for the company so I can't say.

Eleshakai1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nucleophilic atk,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=aR3UkTW2,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2015-03-24T17:11:59.080+0000)

Honestly, I find there is a shit ton more toxic gameplay than there is toxic language. It is not rare to see someone playing a first time champ, feeding, afking, and just losing the game on purpose. Most of the time I see someone flaming, is because someone is intentionally losing the game. I'm not sure why Riot decided to try and address the "toxic language" aspect instead of fixing the cause of it, but I don't work for the company so I can't say.

That's because you're a troll. This has been well established for many months now. Trolls tend to see more trolling than the average player for a variety of reasons.

Nucleophilic atk1 votes

Your comment makes absolutely no sense. Please explain how I troll in my games. This is about the 4th topic you have found and commented on of mine. Some other guy posted on one of them saying you do the same thing to him. I think you can stop following me now :D I'm sure you have something better to do with your life than make business major comments on everything I say :)

Eleshakai1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nucleophilic atk,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=aR3UkTW2,comment-id=000c00000000,timestamp=2015-03-24T17:20:43.636+0000)

Your comment makes absolutely no sense. Please explain how I troll in my games. This is about the 4th topic you have found and commented on of mine. Some other guy posted on one of them saying you do the same thing to him. I think you can stop following me now :D I'm sure you have something better to do with your life than make business major comments on everything I say :)

I was here before you... you followed me.

Raxicor1 votes

There's more toxic MOBAs out there.

GaleWinUnleashed1 votes

Toxicity tends to crop up when things start going wrong, and most of the time it's one player looking for someone else to blame. While it is psychologically good in the short term for one person to find a way to excuse themselves of blame, thus reducing their personal stress (a long-term pattern of this behavior is a pretty good sign of narcissism, but that's a different topic), it's very counter-productive when they publicly put the blame on someone else. It creates an immediate defensiveness, and any backlash usually results in an argument.

It really appears that a large part of the problem is that many players feel obligated to type out all of their negative thoughts and criticisms in chat, rather than just venting by shouting at their computer screen. It's perfectly fine to be mad at someone, but there's no reason to let that anger leave the room you're sitting in. Put a stress ball by the computer if it's really that difficult. Or channel that frustration into a workout later on. Anything but shoving your anger at other people/players, really.

For me, seeing as I don't have these problems with anger, I instead put a lot of effort into defusing sticky situations in chat, ideally before any fights start up. As far as I can tell, being only 1 player in a game of 10, my efforts appear to make my games more enjoyable as a whole. The chances for toxic behavior in a given game seem to go down sharply if you can introduce a lighter mood to the game early on, and make things a bit less serious and more about fun. I'd like to get some second opinions from others about this, though. So, has anyone encountered players that attempt to defuse conflict, and/or reduce the seriousness of a game, and have you noticed any substantial improvement when this occurs?

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