Management of Path Of Exiles vs LoL

Fraggleroc·Oct 27, 2015·2 votes·566 views

I was just thinking about how these 2 (very different) games are managed.

Chris Wilson (PoE) seemed to drive his staff hard to produce a number of brilliant content updates to PoE. And these content came quick and fast. We've seen 2 big expansions since release.

Now, compare that to Riot. Ultimately, it's a bigger game and champions are released about bi-monthly. But the other outdated systems took so long to be updated. People are arguing over champion picks and balance everyday... yet the champion select system's overhaul took so long. Riot, being the bigger company, has access to more resources too.

Both are f2p games, albeit very different.

It must be relaxing working at Riot Games- deadlines seemed to be a non-factor.

Discuss.

/disgruntled long-time fan

14 Comments

SEKAIOct 27, 20152 votes

PoE also has one of the best real money model when it comes to the f2p scene, excluding Dota2 here because GGG is just not comparable with Valve in terms of size and capital.

FragglerocOct 27, 20152 votes

I chose PoE to compare because I see GGG as a company that cares for its customers/players. Just look at the effort Chris Wilson takes to communicate with his players. They have news updates every couple days on their website- whether it's Build of the Week or hyping about new upcoming events/patches. Chris Wilson cared enough to go on podcasts/streams such as State of the Exile regularly to hear/answer players' questions. And there are regular communications between Designers and players on the forums.

now LoL- we do get an occasional AMA... the main systems of the game hasn't changed much at all. A better Champion Select UI should have been done in the second year of the game already.

I need to type "top pref" very quickly logging into every champ select. And sometimes arguments would ensue from there. This has been 5yrs now!

FragglerocOct 27, 20151 votes

Don't just vote me down. I challenge u to rebut me.

CindikleOct 27, 20151 votes

You're failing to understand the depth of balancing 130 different champions on a single map at multiple levels of play. Vs a game where PvE is a bigger factor. Most of it's end game content is "if you can kill and live, you're doing great". Interactions with other players isn't really important other than hoping they can fill that same roll. Even if one class is better than another. Living to do more damage is still all you need.

PoE also has gear much more heavily factored into it. The game as a whole is a farm fest.

As you said. They're different games. PoE just needs to give good content. LoL needs to give good content without breaking the game. Because a single champion could easily do that. Even with 6 bans between teams. A LOT of leagues development is working around the coding and balancing the changes. PoE just loads up a map editor. Puts something together(sometimes including new art). Codes some monsters. And that's the bulk of their development.

I'd for sure assume Riot is less strict on their deadlines compared to PoE. Because quality is better than quantity. Even then we'll see champions released far too soon. Azir was a joke when he was put out. Bugs everywhere.

Honestly League has more relation to Battlefield than PoE. There has to be a balance between the classes. Some maps will favor some other others. But one wont usually feel useless because of this. And another one wont usually feel too dominate that the whole team just plays one class.

FragglerocOct 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You're failing to understand the depth of balancing 130 different champions on a single map at multiple levels of play. Vs a game where PvE is a bigger factor.

Do you seriously think Balance is a non-issue in PoE? Balance of its skills... gears... passive skills etc

CindikleOct 27, 20151 votes

No where near the level League has to deal with. Buffing one champion can completely change the meta.

PoE doesn't have to worry about how all these things interact with eachother on the same level. If something is overpowered, all they have to do is change numbers. Because 90% of PoE's balance is in the class itself. Nerfing or buffing a class doesn't directly effect the other classes. While in league I'd say it's maybe 20%. Because everything must be factored in.

League balance is like MMO balance. There's a lot to factor in.

PoE is balanced like a single player game. As long as a class doesn't do something too weak or too powerful it's fine. Mostly so the player on that class doesn't get bored/frustrated. Has so little to do with their interaction with other players.

FragglerocOct 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

No where near the level League has to deal with. Buffing one champion can completely change the meta.

PoE doesn't have to worry about how all these things interact with eachother on the same level. If something is overpowered, all they have to do is change numbers. Because 90% of PoE's balance is in the class itself. Nerfing or buffing a class doesn't directly effect the other classes. While in league I'd say it's maybe 20%. Because everything must be factored in.

League balance is like MMO balance. There's a lot to factor in.

PoE is balanced like a single player game. As long as a class doesn't do something too weak or too powerful it's fine. Mostly so the player on that class doesn't get bored/frustrated. Has so little to do with their interaction with other players.

You gave Riot too much credit. Icefrog has been balancing mobas since the days of Dota Allstars... and he did it all singlehandedly then. Even if it is like MMO balance- look what Blizzard did for WoW in 5 yrs compared to what Riot did for LoL in the same 5 yrs.

I'm also thinking more in terms of the total amount of work put out

CindikleOct 28, 20151 votes

In that regard it's a different kind of work. PoE is mostly about map design. A lot of it is even random. It just needs to be coded to work.

Look at Divinity: Original Sin. You can make your own PoE on there if you felt like putting the time in. Once the base setup is made. PoE type games are not hard to add into and balance. You say I give too much credit to Riot, but you give too much to PoE.

Also DotA is a different beast than League. Balance means different things to each game. I didn't play the first one. But I never heard anyone say it was overall a balanced game. It was, though, something people accepted better than League players do. Not saying do it alone wasn't an accomplishment. But the level of balance he had to maintain was less.

And I'm in no way saying I feel League does an amazing job at balance either.

EvilDustManOct 27, 20151 votes

Different backends. Different balance management. Different game. Different code. Different gui. Path of exile's gui could run on two rocks and a piece of string. You just don't have insight into how it is built so it is frustrating.

FragglerocOct 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Different backends. Different balance management. Different game. Different code. Different gui. Path of exile's gui could run on two rocks and a piece of string. You just don't have insight into how it is built so it is frustrating.

How about the other big player in the genre then- Dota 2?

Have u seen the updates to Dota2's gui? LoL has seen gui changes- but none of them significant I feel. The patching system etc should've been thought thru at release. The game must have really spaghetti code during release.

It's frustrating because everything Riot seemed to be doing - is "Double-work". Redo-ing stuff that they should've gotten right the first time. EVERYTHING that has happened to the game- feels like Double-work i.e. Balance of champs; Numerous Re-balance... Riot has so much resources at their disposal- feels like it is all wasted.

FragglerocOct 27, 20151 votes

I've been in the game from the start- almost 5 yrs ago in beta. Take a game such as WoW for example- it's 10yrs' life. Do you know what changes were made to WoW in those 10yrs?

Now LoL- issues remained unfixed- Many champs remained not viable since Season 2. I don't even want to talk about balance issues because that is subjective.

Simple Rune System and... Champion Select overhaul - took almost 7 months now since announced. And I'm pretty sure the idea started almost a year ago. Just the amount of work put out by Riot is depressing. There seemed to be a lot of "Double-work". I enjoy new champs being put out bi-monthly. And I applaud them in their efforts in esports. They changed the face of esports. But the core game hasn't improved much at all.

The result is Worlds was pretty uninteresting this year- 3-0s affair in semi-finals etc... all these I believe are interconnected to some extent.

ParessOct 27, 20151 votes

Why the fuck are you comparing a PvE hack&slash vs a PvP Moba ?

FragglerocOct 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Why the fuck are you comparing a PvE hack&slash vs a PvP Moba ?

I can compare Riot to any other game companies... it's just the amount of work put out by them and how much they care about their customers/players.

FragglerocOct 28, 20151 votes

To be honest, I couldnt care less about balance unless it's something really obvious like the recent Darius/Morde debacle. I feel the balance is in a good place too. I'm merely hoping Riot will update the other parts of their game- the rune system, champion select UI etc. They're like relics of the past. Really outdated. Not sure why they went ahead with the map update, rather than champ select UI... I know different teams worked on them but priority (more manpower) could be devoted to Champ Select UI. I mean... Arguments continue to ensue during champ select to this day. It leaves a general bad taste on players especially those new to the scene.