I think an AP cleanse Item would be fair.

YoungFarmer·Jan 19, 2016·3 votes·601 views

Its kind of a giant pain in the dick to have ot build on an ap midlaner just because you're against a zed, ww, or malzahar.

21 Comments

mirAcIeJan 19, 20162 votes

Sure, right after the MR/AD Zhonyas

VoidnerJan 19, 20161 votes

an AP,AD,MR,ARMOR,CDR,MANA,HEALTH,ARMOR/MAGIC PEN.,ZHONYAS,GUARDIAN item please

[zombie-brand-clap]

The Bearded BardJan 20, 20161 votes

Lemme get some good AP cdr itemization and an AP/armor hexdrinker and we got a deal. While you're at it, make spellvamp as good and readily available as lifesteal. OH and the equivalent of critting for spells would be wonderful as well!

When we get all that, you can have your MR/AD Zhonyas.

mirAcIeJan 20, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Bearded Bard,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=WybIPAlM,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2016-01-20T08:09:33.133+0000)

Lemme get some good AP cdr itemization and an AP/armor hexdrinker and we got a deal. While you're at it, make spellvamp as good and readily available as lifesteal. OH and the equivalent of critting for spells would be wonderful as well!

When we get all that, you can have your MR/AD Zhonyas.

Do you really want Annie and Braindead remove you from the game with with their easy to land abilities and heal off of it at the same time while being tanky? I think you underestimate how cancerous mages are once overtuned.

The Bearded BardJan 20, 20161 votes

I just think it's extremely dumb to jokingly ask for an AD Zhonyas whenever someone brings up how shitty AP items are right now.

Yes we've got Zhonyas, but that's it. Everyone else is hilariously overpriced and outmatched by their AD counterparts.

mirAcIeJan 20, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Bearded Bard,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=WybIPAlM,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2016-01-20T08:41:26.659+0000)

I just think it's extremely dumb to jokingly ask for an AD Zhonyas whenever someone brings up how shitty AP items are right now.

Yes we've got Zhonyas, but that's it. Everyone else is hilariously overpriced and outmatched by their AD counterparts.

And yet AP based champions consistently have higher winrates than AD. Graves doesn't count, he's broken right now. AP champions have "better" abilities and AD champions have "better" items. That's how it works in this game. You can't just demand bringing such gamechanger as AP QSS without thinking of consequences. Anyone who thinks that Mages in general are underpowered is delusional.

The Bearded BardJan 20, 20161 votes

http://champion.gg/statistics/#?roleSort=&sortBy=general.playPercent&order=descend

Top 20 pick rates and the only mages on there are Lux and Ahri. Three if you want to count LB, which I don't because she plays like an assassin, not a mage. 7 of the top 20 picked champions are ADC. Can't just go by winrate or I'd bring up Shyv, Voli, and Udyr with their near 55% win rates, or Galio with his 54% win rate.

mirAcIeJan 20, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Bearded Bard,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=WybIPAlM,comment-id=000100010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-20T09:00:10.525+0000)

http://champion.gg/statistics/#?roleSort=&sortBy=general.playPercent&order=descend

Top 20 pick rates and the only mages on there are Lux and Ahri. Three if you want to count LB, which I don't because she plays like an assassin, not a mage. 7 of the top 20 picked champions are ADC. Can't just go by winrate or I'd bring up Shyv, Voli, and Udyr with their near 55% win rates, or Galio with his 54% win rate.

Among those only ADC would build Mercurial's and ADCs and have the most pickrate because they're the only "meta" role that requires a certain type of champion (a ranged attack damage dealer).

Now this is a rant about tanks and bruisers? We should give Mages AP/Cleanse item because Volibear/Shyvana/Udyr/Mundo are strong? You claim that AD itemization is so good, but none of these champions use it. If it's so strong, why isn't Talon, Riven, Zed or Lee Sin up there?

You may not count Leblanc as a mage, but she's one of the champions who would benefit from AP QSS the most and it will make her even more obnoxious if she's played correctly.

The Bearded BardJan 20, 20161 votes

I didn't say anything about those champions being OP, didn't even bring up Mundo. The opposite actually, I said their high win rate doesn't mean anything because their low pick rate contradicts what their high win rate suggests.

Lee Sin is the second most played champion in the game at the moment, Zed the 6th, and Riven just barely missing the cut at #21. Their win rates are lower than average (Zed's isn't btw, close to 52% which probably means he's slightly too strong considering his high play rate mixed with win rate) because they're diluted by huge playrates.

You're completely missing my points. I'm saying that win rates and play rates alone do not tell us anything at all. Galio with his 54% win rate means a lot less when you consider his .61% play rate. Lee Sin's 46% win rate means a lot less when you tell me he's got a 32% play rate. Are you picking up what I'm putting down here? Because I really can't dumb it down any more.

mirAcIeJan 20, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Bearded Bard,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=WybIPAlM,comment-id=00010001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-20T09:20:50.253+0000)

I didn't say anything about those champions being OP, didn't even bring up Mundo. The opposite actually, I said their high win rate doesn't mean anything because their low pick rate contradicts what their high win rate suggests.

Lee Sin is the second most played champion in the game at the moment, Zed the 6th, and Riven just barely missing the cut at #21. Their win rates are lower than average (Zed's isn't btw, close to 52% which probably means he's slightly too strong considering his high play rate mixed with win rate) because they're diluted by huge playrates.

You're completely missing my points. I'm saying that win rates and play rates alone do not tell us anything at all. Galio with his 54% win rate means a lot less when you consider his .61% play rate. Lee Sin's 46% win rate means a lot less when you tell me he's got a 32% play rate. Are you picking up what I'm putting down here? Because I really can't dumb it down any more.

You want to sound reasonable, but at the same time you make crazy claims about AD completely outclassing AP and asked for "good" AP CDR itemization LOL. Like Spooky Ghosts isn't already the best item in the game (even after the nerfs).

Sure winrates don't mean everything. But sheer numbers on the items mean even less. You can't compare the numbers of Hexdrinker to Abyssal and say that one is better than the other. It's all about the champions who build it and how they manage to utilize one or the other.

You think it's dumb to jokingly ask for an AD Zhonya's. I think it's even more dumb to seriously ask for AP QSS. You want to play against Vladimir with Zhonya's AND AP QSS? I sure don't. Same for Leblanc and Ahri, to name a few.

The Bearded BardJan 20, 20161 votes

I'd compare actives and passives sooner than I'd compare stats. I'd also consider pricing in all that.

Also, spooky ghosts is a support item. I fully believe if Morellos didn't get nerfed as it did, you wouldn't be seeing as many people bring FQC to mid lane. With the combination of it being the only item in the game that makes stealth targetable now, the nerfs to morellos, and it having way more applicability on a mid laner than a support of course it's going to be a popular choice, but it remains a support item.

Think of it this way, most of the more problematic popular champions nowadays have innate healing ( DrMundo Illaoi Rengar TahmKench etc) yet morellos is still rarely built because of how shitty it is right now. If you were to revert the changes to morellos in preseason, you'd see less people building FQC, more people building morellos, and less people complaining about these 'OP' healing champions.

mirAcIeJan 20, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Bearded Bard,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=WybIPAlM,comment-id=0001000100000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-20T09:36:45.451+0000)

I'd compare actives and passives sooner than I'd compare stats. I'd also consider pricing in all that.

Also, spooky ghosts is a support item. I fully believe if Morellos didn't get nerfed as it did, you wouldn't be seeing as many people bring FQC to mid lane. With the combination of it being the only item in the game that makes stealth targetable now, the nerfs to morellos, and it having way more applicability on a mid laner than a support of course it's going to be a popular choice, but it remains a support item.

Think of it this way, most of the more problematic popular champions nowadays have innate healing ( etc) yet morellos is still rarely built because of how shitty it is right now. If you were to revert the changes to morellos in preseason, you'd see less people building FQC, more people building morellos, and less people complaining about these 'OP' healing champions.

That's all great, but I don't see how that justifies that AP based champions deserve to have 2 types of offensive/defensive items that give them the best type of surivivability in the game and why should it trigger you that I make fun of such bogus suggestion.

Athene's and Morello's being out of people's radar lately will probably mean that Riot will do something about it. After all, both of those items were nerfed because of their popularity. But it's not an "AD vs AP" issue.

The Bearded BardJan 20, 20161 votes

Oh they're planning on doing something about it all right. Nerfs on PBE atm. Athene's now gives 10% cdr.

It's not just about the AP QSS item, I don't give a crap about that tbh. What I do care about is that AP items are getting progressively shittier while AD and even tank items get stronger and alls people say when you bring it up is 'FQC is so strong! haha give AD a zhonyas then we can have better mage items'

Overall, mages feel a lot shittier to play this season than any other, and that's including when league of cleavers and atmogs were things. Arguably they're still just as strong as ever, but it doesn't feel nearly as satisfying to play them and that's a problem.

mirAcIeJan 20, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Bearded Bard,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=WybIPAlM,comment-id=000100010000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-20T10:08:55.802+0000)

Oh they're planning on doing something about it all right. Nerfs on PBE atm. Athene's now gives 10% cdr.

It's not just about the AP QSS item, I don't give a crap about that tbh. What I do care about is that AP items are getting progressively shittier while AD and even tank items get stronger and alls people say when you bring it up is 'FQC is so strong! haha give AD a zhonyas then we can have better mage items'

Overall, mages feel a lot shittier to play this season than any other, and that's including when league of cleavers and atmogs were things. Arguably they're still just as strong as ever, but it doesn't feel nearly as satisfying to play them and that's a problem.

Can you link me that PBE update? I can't seem to find it. All changes that I could find were buffs both to Morellonomicon and Athene's

Morellonomicon Total cost reduced to 2400 from 2450 (live value 2550)

Athene's Unholy Grail Total cost reduced to 2700g from 2800g Combine cost reduced to 465g from 565

from http://www.surrenderat20.net/2016/01/119-pbe.html

Maximum MordeJan 19, 20162 votes

I'd prefer they just buff cleanse to be awesome amd nerf qss to what cleanse currently is.

IlliadJan 19, 20161 votes

item 3222 [zombie-brand-mindblown] Pray you have a good support

YoungFarmerJan 19, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tetsu Juan,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=WybIPAlM,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-01-19T14:36:29.246+0000)

[zombie-brand-mindblown] Pray you have a good support

That doesn't actually remove the supression or zeds ult, just heals you.

IlliadJan 19, 20161 votes

It does remove the supression if you read it :/ lol

YoungFarmerJan 19, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tetsu Juan,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=WybIPAlM,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-19T14:54:08.493+0000)

It does remove the supression if you read it :/ lol

I use it all the fucking time as support, never removes malzahar ult or ww ult

mirAcIeJan 20, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tetsu Juan,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=WybIPAlM,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-19T14:54:08.493+0000)

It does remove the supression if you read it :/ lol

I read it and it still doesn't

The Bearded BardJan 20, 20161 votes

Not only does it not remove suppressions or zed's ult, it's also shitty on nearly every support.