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Community missing an opportunity on Vel'Koz

ModKnightsKemplar··3 votes·644 views

I'm surfing around reading comments from Meddler, responses to those comments, and seeing the rage. This thread is a response to that.

Here's the deal. Riot is saying "We want to make this champ better (by making him more distinct)" and the community reply is "We don't want that." There is literally no reason to have that response. Look, Riot is reworking him with a goal in mind, and, just for a minute, try to see that worthy goal. Try to see that Vel'Koz ISN'T a very different choice from lux or brand. He's JUST DAMAGE.

Riot is giving us an opportunity to add something kick-ass to this champion, and it's getting squandered by people that don't want Riot to do a bad thing. You know how you can stop them from doing a bad thing? Flood them with good ideas. They don't have anything for him yet, so let's give em the good stuff! We can stop them ruining that champ by giving them ways to further improve him!

The best thread I have seen so far about Vel'Koz is one that suggested giving him a unique trinket interaction. The idea is to kind of play out his big eye scan in gameplay, and THAT'S AWESOME. You know why? For one thing, IT DOESN'T CHANGE HIS SKILLS AT ALL. He'd be the same Vel with a slight upgrade to his game, and that's really cool. I truly see no grounds for disagreement on that, honestly.

Instead of flaming Riot about what's good about Vel'Koz (which they already know), let's help give them some feedback that will make him even cooler! Seriously, purple eye scanner trinket! Make it happen!

13 Comments

Stormfather1 votes

For the most part, you're right. New, good ideas that don't change his skills to any large degree are good. But at this point, most of us have lost any and all faith in Riot. Take these boards for example. Plenty of people are always asking for important, reasonable answers to their questions. The most recent one that comes to mind is why they didn't bring back Teambuilder while New Champ Select is down. But Riot doesn't care about the community, no matter what they might say. They don't bother to respond to any actual important questions, and they pointedly ignore anything that accurately criticizes them. This kind of behavior is why people are so angry that Riot is reworking Vel'koz. They won't leave him mostly as he is. They won't listen to the community, or if they do they will be listening to the one person who had an awful idea that ruins it. This is why nobody has any faith in Riot, when they go to try to fix something that isn't broken. Could Vel'koz be made better? Maybe. Does he absolutely need it? Not in the slightest. Vel'koz is one of the only champions that is pretty much perfectly balanced, and he's fun to play with and against. How about, instead of changing what doesn't need to be changed, Riot addresses things that DO need to be changed, like Annie? A champion with no counterplay because she always has a stun up with no skillshots, and does so much damage that nobody but a full tank can survive her if they get within her range. How about Nasus, who just farms in lane and wins all trades because he has passive lifesteal that works with his Q? THAT is something that needs to be fixed. THAT is what Riot should be prioritizing. Not reworking a champion that doesn't need it in the first place.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

But they are making an effort to start the conversation early this time. To act like they aren't changing is ridiculous. They do respond to criticism, and they are doing a much better job with this already than they did with Morde, which wasn't that long ago.

People need to do one of two things; either show faith and pitch in to help, or leave. When you complain, but keep spending money and playing, you are passively approving of what Riot is doing. The only real motivator for them to change is financial. That is true whether they are greedy or not; finances are good incentive for well-meaning people, too. Complaint threads, when they are obviously changing strategy to listen more, will do nothing.

Stormfather1 votes

To an extent, you're right. But once trust is lost, it's not as easy to regain. Simply a show that you WANT to change is not going to be enough for most people. If Riot manages to not screw up Vel'koz (which at this point seems unlikely, but not impossible), then we might be getting somewhere. Honestly though, the absolute BEST thing they could do is listen to their community in the way that the community wants them to. Rather than listening to the community on HOW to change Vel'koz, they should first ask the community IF they should change Vel'koz. If the community overwhelmingly says no, which they have been, then Riot should listen to THAT.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

That's what I can't get on board with. The community didn't design the most popular game in the world (by some measures). Riot did. They know what they are doing.

The community, especially on these boards, paints a picture of Riot bumbling about and occasionally doing something right. In fact, it's exactly the opposite. Riot is doing great, and we only have the opportunity to nitpick at the small failures because they succeed so hard on everything else.

I worded that title very intentionally. Riot is GIVING us the OPPORTUNITY to give some input. We haven't earned it. We aren't entitled to it. They are going to keep having a very successful game whether they listen to us or not, probably. It is a KINDNESS of them to ask boards what we want, and we are spitting on them for not taking it.

Stormfather1 votes

You're right, they don't have to listen to us. And you're right, we aren't entitled to give input. But, if you're going to ASK someone for their input, then listen to them.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

That's true, but the input was asked for in a specific context. They didn't ask if we wanted it. They asked if we had ideas. We should supply ideas that don't involve changing his skills if that's what we want. THAT is how we'll get what we want. Complaining won't help. That's all I'm saying.

When they ask for ideas, we should give ideas, not complaints. They ARE working on him. We don't get input on that. We get input on what to do. That's all.

Vistha Kai1 votes

If anything we were presented with accomplished facts with little to zero possibility to change them.

On rare occasions they wanted ideas from us, but not once we were taken seriously.

Also there is no context on the mages "update". All that's been said is "we want to change those guys" along with things we know for months(Cassio says "Hi"). Things people were giving feedback about for just as long.

And don't dare to tell me there are only complaints, because there's a bunch of "Ideas for fixing Cassiopeia" every week since she had her snake backside handed over to her by Stashu.

Ya, a year later Riot was gracious to consider fixing the mess they created. Praise be!

I won't hold my breath.

Vistha Kai1 votes

For that matter they were showing they want to change it... for nearly the past two years to no avail.

therealdragon1 votes

{quoted}

I'm surfing around reading comments from Meddler, responses to those comments, and seeing the rage. This thread is a response to that.

Here's the deal. Riot is saying "We want to make this champ better (by making him more distinct)" and the community reply is "We don't want that." There is literally no reason to have that response. Look, Riot is reworking him with a goal in mind, and, just for a minute, try to see that worthy goal. Try to see that Vel'Koz ISN'T a very different choice from lux or brand. He's JUST DAMAGE.

See what happened when they reworked cass, morde, the list goes on. They always say "Hey! Let's rework this champ!" then a patch later, the champ is useless.

So there is actually 2000% reason to have this response. We don't want Vel'Koz to become useless. If he gets reworked, HE'S GOING TO GET WRECKED. Past reworks have proven this 10x over. So there is actually more than enough reason to have our response.

Riot is giving us an opportunity to add something kick-ass to this champion, and it's getting squandered by people that don't want Riot to do a bad thing. You know how you can stop them from doing a bad thing? Flood them with good ideas. They don't have anything for him yet, so let's give em the good stuff! We can stop them ruining that champ by giving them ways to further improve him!

LOL. Since when do they listen to us when it comes to champions? The players for cass morde, veigar, again the list goes on, said "DON'T DO THIS YOU WILL WRECK HIM" and they went ahead and did it anyway. Even you yourself think they'll ruin this champ if they rework him.

The best thread I have seen so far about Vel'Koz is one that suggested giving him a unique trinket interaction. The idea is to kind of play out his big eye scan in gameplay, and THAT'S AWESOME. You know why? For one thing, IT DOESN'T CHANGE HIS SKILLS AT ALL. He'd be the same Vel with a slight upgrade to his game, and that's really cool. I truly see no grounds for disagreement on that, honestly.

Yeah, you know why? Because riot has a history of reworking and screwing champs. See the list YET AGAIN.

Instead of flaming Riot about what's good about Vel'Koz (which they already know), let's help give them some feedback that will make him even cooler! Seriously, purple eye scanner trinket! Make it happen!

Give them all the feedback you want they aren't gonna do crap. See above.

The only good knews I've heard is that meddler said its more of a patch note than an actual rework. So that means that the chances of ruining Vel are minimized.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

Again, we ought to give them a chance when they change their strategy. It's in our best interest to do so. As you've said, they have a history of not listening to the protests, so that's for sure not worth it.

This time, though, they have asked our opinion far in advance. That's different than the other failed reworks. So... again, it's not necessarily about trusting them blindly. It's just that we have a better opportunity to give them feedback this time, and if we don't, we should prepare for the worst. As for me, I'm throwing out ideas. This is new times, and they are communicating for now. Let's take advantage.

XlawlietteX1 votes

Instead of flaming Riot about what's good about Vel'Koz (which they already know), let's help give them some feedback that will make him even cooler! Seriously, purple eye scanner trinket! Make it happen!

Firstly no one is flaming Riot =\ If you had read the intro they asked for thoughts. The downvotes - if that's what you are referring to, are us "voicing" disagreement. Which is allowed. That's what the button is for.

Secondly, you don't play Vel'Koz do you? [zombie-brand-mindblown]

XlawlietteX2 votes

He's JUST DAMAGE.

^^^^^ looks for Jinx rolling on floor laughing emoticon

XlawlietteX1 votes

To be less troll-y, let me explain. If you want an example of JUST DAMAGE, look at Ziggs. Ziggs is majority, just damage except for a minor displacement on his W. Apart from that? Q, he throws a little bouncing bomb and where it explodes, does damage. W step on the package - if he blows it up with you on it, displacement and damage. E, puts down a ton of little bombs that if you step on them, damage. And a gigantic damage bomb that drops from the sky - damage.

Apart from a minor displace and maybe the zoning control offered by E cuz no one wants to walk through that - Ziggs is JUST DAMAGE.

Vel'Koz's passive stacks and offers true damage. Q is a long range poke/snipe with a unique branch off nuke that allows geometry and angles and THOUGHT. W is a little burst damage wave clear tool. E is a huge damage displacement/knockup, knockback, AND in conjunction with his passive all these abilities put on stacks of deconstruction which offers you that same true damage previously mentioned.... AND THEN THE GRAND FINALE OF THAT FACE MELTING R IF YOU ACTUALLY PLAYED HIM SKILLFULLY ENOUGH TO STACK YOUR DECONSTRUCT PASSIVE!.........

Pfffft. Just Damage my chimichongas.

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