@Riot: Why can't you do this for all really weak champs??

Nucleophilic atk·Mar 12, 2015·2 votes·405 views

Urgot's patch notes: "Urgot's going to need a lot more under-the-hood work before he can hit the big-time, but in the interim we thought he could use some help."

So many champs are in a weak state. They don't get fixed, however, because "lolz they are on our list for major rework". So why can't you give them something to make them a little more relevant? Never played Urgot, and I don't know if these changes are going to fix him whatsoever, but they seem good. More important, they are trying. I just don't get why they can't do this with other weak champs instead of leaving them for 6 months because they are 2nd on their list. So many champs are in a shit spot, like Elise, Zac, and Olaf to name a few.

8 Comments

Matthias9119Mar 12, 20151 votes

The problem with a lot of these champs is that straight numerical buffs would take them from underwhelming to dominant. Zac and Elise were both VERY strong in S3. I expect Zac will see some improvement with this patch, but squishy AP junglers just aren't very good right now.

Nucleophilic atkMar 12, 20151 votes

Understandable. I don't think they have to make them have crazy numerical buffs, though. Even just a small buff would help lol. Also, with a champ like Zac, even making a slight adjustment to his blobs would help. I mean, I can't remember the last time I saw a Zac utilize his passive and come back to life. It's basically a useless version of AA or Anivia's passives. Elise could also get some numbers right, or tweak a part of her kit to make her viable at least. My problem is that they nerf a champ to the ground (when all they really need is a small nerf in 1 part of their game), say "we will keep an eye on them", and then completely ignore the champ. The amount of favoritism rito shows is really discouraging in my opinion.

Matthias9119Mar 12, 20151 votes

Zac's passive defeinitely falls off late game (although so does Anivia's). Aatrox has the only super-reliable self-revive. Early on it's hard for a single enemy to kill all the blobs.

Elise with numbers buffs would probably be too good. You have to consider her laning potential as well as jungling. The problem is that "squishy AP assassin" junglers are all doing quite poorly right now. Except Nidalee, if you put her in that category, although I think people tend to build her AD in the jungle. And they just nerfed her clears.

My problem is that they nerf a champ to the ground (when all they really need is a small nerf in 1 part of their game)...

They really can't win here. When a champ is dominant and they do small adjustments it's "OMG RITO PLAYS FAVORITES AND NEVER NERFS [CHAMP]!". When they hit them too hard it's "OMG RITO DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO BALANCE Y U NERF STUFF?!!?!".

Elise and Zac both got small nerfs in S4 and then basically got dumpstered by the S5 jungle. They're trying to fix the jungle as a whole, so if they buff the currently-underperforming junglers and then do that those champs will be ridiculous. Or they'll have to go back and nerf them again later!

Nucleophilic atkMar 13, 20151 votes

These were just my examples lol...I don't play the champ that much. I will comment on other aspects of you post, though. First, people don't say that about nerfs lol. They say it about champs like Zed, that are crazy strong, but because they make #LC$BIGPLAY$, they are intentionally kept strong. I think they could have nerfed both Zac and Elise in a healthy way, not nerfing them to the point that they are unplayable and then never looking at the champ again. Let's be honest, Zac and Elise were dumpstered before S5 lol. I could count on one hand the amount of times I have saw either of these played.

Champs are left to be unplayable for so long, yet they allow Lee Sin to completely dominate jungle play since I started playing the game before S3 just because he makes cool flashy LCS plays. Any time that another jungler gets close to getting the play that he does, they are nerfed.

Matthias9119Mar 13, 20151 votes

They say it about champs like Zed, that are crazy strong, but because they make #LC$BIGPLAY$, they are intentionally kept strong.

I just said that. Anything people think is "OP" is Riot playing favorites, anything they think is "UP" is Riot being stupid and nerfing champs the wrong way. Riot can't win, people are going to complain and blame them no matter what they do.

I think they could have nerfed both Zac and Elise in a healthy way, not nerfing them to the point that they are unplayable and then never looking at the champ again. Let's be honest, Zac and Elise were dumpstered before S5 lol. I could count on one hand the amount of times I have saw either of these played.

Zac wasn't competitive in S4, but tanky junglers in general were not that great. That's why they're trying to fix the jungle in general in S5; tweaking individual champs wasn't getting it done.

Elise was used extensively in competitive play through the first half of S4, so I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about with her. She got a series of nerfs in the second half of S4 that gradually made her worse, and then the S5 jungle completely obliterated her.

Champs are left to be unplayable for so long, yet they allow Lee Sin to completely dominate jungle play since I started playing the game before S3 just because he makes cool flashy LCS plays.

You see Lee a lot in competitive play because he is safe. Before the nerf to cripple (in the middle of S4) I thought he was overtuned -- he used to auto-win almost any duel against an AA-heavy champ at level 2 or 3. But now you have to be VERY good with him to do decently, and in solo queue he's generally terrible.

I agree with what Riot has said about him -- if they just nerf him numerically he'll be garbage. They have to change his kit around to give him better-defined strengths and weaknesses, but the prototypes they tried out weren't good.

Nucleophilic atkMar 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I just said that. Anything people think is "OP" is Riot playing favorites, anything they think is "UP" is Riot being stupid and nerfing champs the wrong way. Riot can't win, people are going to complain and blame them no matter what they do.

Not saying Zed is OP, just crazy strong, which he is. They nerfed just about every mid laner with their stupid mana changes. That made Zed rise. Zed wasn't a problem before the mana changes because you could at least keep up in clear/poke while building zhonyas. Now, you are forced to rush zhonyas and miss out on mana regain item...which cripples you even more in lane.

Zac wasn't competitive in S4, but tanky junglers in general were not that great. That's why they're trying to fix the jungle in general in S5; tweaking individual champs wasn't getting it done.

Elise was used extensively in competitive play through the first half of S4, so I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about with her. She got a series of nerfs in the second half of S4 that gradually made her worse, and then the S5 jungle completely obliterated her.

Elise started seeing play over Lee Sin and was nerfed to the point that you are considered a troll if you pick her. Even worse, she has been ignored since then.

You see Lee a lot in competitive play because he is safe. Before the nerf to cripple (in the middle of S4) I thought he was overtuned -- he used to auto-win almost any duel against an AA-heavy champ at level 2 or 3. But now you have to be VERY good with him to do decently, and in solo queue he's generally terrible.

I agree with what Riot has said about him -- if they just nerf him numerically he'll be garbage. They have to change his kit around to give him better-defined strengths and weaknesses, but the prototypes they tried out weren't good.

They need to take something away from his overloaded kit. He has everything and no weaknesses lol.

Matthias9119Mar 13, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nucleophilic atk,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=RRF1ez9a,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-03-13T11:24:40.782+0000)

Not saying Zed is OP, just crazy strong, which he is.

I'm not sure I'm seeing the distinction, unless you mean that you think Riot should try to bring other champs up to his level rather than tone Zed down.

They nerfed just about every mid laner with their stupid mana changes. That made Zed rise.

Well... it was arguably bad that most mages could ignore mana costs after ~10m. But yes, in this case it wasn't so much that they buffed Zed as poke/zone control mages in general getting weaker. And they did hit his waveclear a bit a couple patches ago and mentioned he might get more nerfs.

Elise started seeing play over Lee Sin and was nerfed to the point that you are considered a troll if you pick her. Even worse, she has been ignored since then.

Elise got some nerfs in S4 -- enough to make her no longer a priority pick in LCS, but she was fine. What killed her is the changes to the S5 jungle, which was only a few months ago. Should they adjust her right now? I don't know. Maybe they're planning a more extensive rework, or they have other changes in mind for the jungle (maybe a change to the AP jungle items that they think will help her, Diana, Mundo, etc. as a whole.)

On reworks in general they tend to take a LONG time. I don't think it is playing favorites so much as them not wanting to dramatically change a champion unless they are SURE it's the only choice and they're pretty confident in the new direction.

Nucleophilic atkMar 12, 20151 votes

Bump. Come on rito...halp me understand your ways.