Boards›[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous

Riot can't balance for Shit

Rozair··2 votes·2,621 views

How hard is it to rework champions. Not that freaking hard. The community is telling riot what works and what doesn't and they refuse to listen. They have totally different ideas than we do of what a champion should and shouldn't be able to do. We have crafted and abused champions to fit the lane they should have been in to begin with. Riot doesn't like this. They want us to do what they intended the champion to do so they gut that champion. They simply will not allow champions to break the meta they imagine. Here's an example. People used to complain about fizz all the time then ad fizz blew up and was overpowered. We complained more. What they did was horrendous. They nerfed his ad side and buffed his ap side yet noone Complained. Ap Fizz was stronger than ever but his play rate dropped because ad fizz was no longer viable. We were left with a super powerful champion because they didn't want us to change what they wanted him to be. They have done this to other champions as well that went in the opposite direction and nerfed them to the ground and left them with nothing. Example sion, sejuani ect. Meanwhile champions they love too much to nerf (Yasuo, Lee, zed) remain at large and will never fall off the meta.

Rarely though they do embrace our meta changers. Example Morgana and annie support. Meanwhile they nerf lulu because she wants to go mid.

14 Comments

Deep Terror Nami6 votes

How hard is it to rework champions. Not that freaking hard.

What experience do you have with game balancing?

Rozair4 votes

I work at the circus as a tightrope walker

B00B005 votes

i tell you what, lets see all your reworks what you would do, how the math works, how the pathing works, how everything reacts and works together or synergises with others. how everything scales/if it scales, why it does or does not, what items would work and how, with math that would work and not be too powerful in any given situation except fed..

then we can talk.

Rozair2 votes

You act like riot haven't ever fucked up with balance

BeatzBoyFTW4 votes

And you act like a Mr. Know-It-All.

Drakusatheon5 votes

Game balance is actually a lot harder than it looks. Players see the least amount of information when it comes to the balancing issues, especially since when you implement a change, there are a lot more things you have to test to see how much that little change has effected in the grand scope. There are literal TONS of metrics devs have to mull through and a lot of problems that devs can see that players can't because they don't have their hands in the system. On top of this, some things can't even be touched until OTHER problems are addressed. There's a whole testing hierarchy that has to be dealt with, and it can be pretty overwhelming sometimes!

Not to say RIOT has been blameless in some of their balance issues, but it's really a learning experience everyday. Just about everyday in game development you learn something new, and that's really a big part of growing as a developer and as a company.

TL;DR: Game balancing and play testing is actually a lot more resource intensive and difficult than it initially may seem from the outside looking in.

Rozair2 votes

Your very right. My main problem is that us as gamers are testing the have every day and rather than riot treating us like we are gamers they treat us like morons with piggy banks strapped to our backs

Drakusatheon3 votes

I wouldn't say "morons", per say. Though it may not always be the clearest response or what we want/expect from a company that is touted as being "For gamers, by gamers", we are still outsiders looking in. We are sadly ignorant to the internal conflicts of the game and what goes on behind the curtain where The Wizard is doing his work. So it's not necessarily that Rioters are treating us as morons or idiots, but ignorant to the true inner workings. That's not a bad thing, mind you. It's the sad truth of us being the consumer.

At the same time, I do believe that Riot could do better when it comes to listening to the community, that much I do agree with.

Rozair1 votes

Riot makes the mistake of treating every consumer the same way. Not all of us are ignorant to the inner workings of riot. Most lower elo players are blinded by the lack of understanding for the game as it is because teamwork is so terrible but for a player who understands the game and how it works there are a rediculous amount of problems. The community as a whole could agree on something while rioters disagree and ultimately they win. They make us powerless to what we as gamers want and refuse to listen. We wanted stronger towers and they made them weaker. We wanted longer games and they shortened them. We wanted the bildgewater bridge map to stay but they archived it. We want Lee sins damage toned down and it hasn't been done for whole seasons. Maybe they like where Lee is whatever I'm not worried about it but other things that don't have to with champion balance and they still don't care.

Drakusatheon2 votes

Unfortunately; unless you either work for Riot OR have somehow gotten your hands on the source code, one is still ignorant to the inner workings. At least from a technical point of view, which is what I was talking about in terms of ignorance.

From a feedback point of view, if Riot incorporated EVERY little thing a chunk of the community wanted instead of following a more specific game plan, the game would end up as a discordant mess. As a company, they have plans for where they want the game to go, and in the end it is their game, not ours. It's their product, and while we can give feedback, the decision comes down to them. Sometimes; we don't like it, and sometimes it doesn't work out for the better. But in the end, Riot wins because this is what they are putting their blood, sweat, and tears into.

It's similar to an artist and their gallery. The artist accepts critiques and the like, but is NOT going to change the entire focus of their gallery because a group of patrons said to. This is their passion. We're along for the ride. There has to be an understanding like that between company and consumer. But I've seen plenty of cases (just like the cases where it seems no valid response is given) where Riot has gotten back to a post. But it's all about relevance, weight, and influence of the suggestion to the game as a whole. Unless a greater chunk of the playerbase worldwide has the same opinion about something, it isn't likely to change unless it carries significant weight.

report yasuo2 votes

So many broken champs tbh I think you're purposely doing it for some stupid reason, if you guys could do your damn jobs this game would be so much better and so much more popular. ( You need to get fired all of u idiots).

iBubbles1 votes

I think this is really funny... as much as no one wants to admit it, every character can be considered unbalanced given a good player, enough gold, and the right build and teamwork. On top of that all champions have a counter, you need to work with your team to shut down the threat early and efficiently.

Also to be honest balancing the game must be incredibly difficult, especially when champions are receiving updates, reworks, and new items every update.

MasterSomething1 votes

Example: Sion, Sejuani, ect.

No, they aren't. Sejuai still does her job of doing major lockdown, and if you build some slight AP on her she becomes a monster to deal with. Sion is one of the best jungles right now- has some of the best clear, great ganks, and really good AoE damage and tankiness. And they also clearly stated why they nerfed AD Fizz: An alternative build should have it's own strengths and weaknesses, not remove all weaknesses.

DarthFantasia1 votes

Honestly, they've had almost 6 years to balance the game, and they still have no idea what the hell they're doing. It's pathetic.

More from [ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous

Open Letter to Parents of League of Legends Players
[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous860 comments
2,611
votes
Rewards for positive play
[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous19,712 comments
1,337
votes
I don't like Boards
[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous324 comments
809
votes
STOP ALLOWING LEVEL 1 ACCOUNTS TO SEND FRIEND REQUESTS!!!
[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous291 comments
679
votes
Wanting to do something special for an awesome friend. Riot, please help? <3
[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous220 comments
614
votes
People that are telling others to kill themselves has to stop! Please help me get this noticed!
[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous605 comments
600
votes

More by Rozair

Nerf tower damage please
Gameplay111 comments
288
votes
Lower the cooldown on playful trickster
Gameplay112 comments
239
votes
Everyone just ban zed until he has a 100% ban rate
Gameplay168 comments
230
votes
Buff zed
Gameplay74 comments
186
votes
Riven cc dodging is not ok
Gameplay142 comments
175
votes
I still think towers are pretty useless
Gameplay153 comments
169
votes