Riot doesn't look at the descriptions of help tickets

Bolwinkel··3 votes·964 views

I have been put on chat restriction a lot recently but over the past month i haven't been toxic in any way. The worst thing i have done is use my gg macro at the end of games. It doesn't even completely spam out the chat. It's just a big g made out of g's. But to the point of this. On help tickets. It seems that riot doesn't look at the descriptions. They only look at the subject and then copy and paste stuff based on that. Here are some links to pictures of some of the messages I've gotten from riot http://prntscr.com/5ki1ay http://prntscr.com/5ki1kw . Those are both from my email and if you think they're fake here is one from my account on their help site http://prntscr.com/5ki21g . They're all practically the same. They're from 3 different tickets and they're all practically the same. This is just more proof that riot either just copies and pastes stuff into their responses or they just have a bot doing it. Look at blizzard. They have a call help line. Players talk to actual people face to face in Skype or Google hangout to try and fix a problem. But what does riot do? They go and copy and paste un-useful crap into their responses or just have a bot do it for them. What about the tribunal riot? It's been in recess for over 8 months now. It's unacceptable about how unhelpful you guys are being. The only helpful thing i have gotten out of you guys is that chat restriction is a bot that counts the number of reports you get and once that reaches a certain amount you get placed on chat restriction. The number never resets. It just stays there. So every month you could get reported once. Only one time a month and then after say 10 months of getting reported once you get placed on chat restriction. This system in so stupid because you get the 4 man pre-mades that will force you into a lane that you don't want to go. If you go and it's a lane that you suck at, all 4 report you. If you choose the lane that you want to go, you get reported even if you do good or bad. Their system is so bogus. The last thing in this post is the fact of the servers. Why does Europe get 2 servers and NA only one? The continent of North America is around 2.5 times larger than the continent of Europe and NA get one server where EU gets 2. Just let all of this settle in and realize how bogus riot really is.

Edit: You guys are all missing the point of this post. It has nothing to do with anyone's chat restriction, how it works, etc. It's about the fact that riot doesn't truly care about the community to actually help. Here is a link to how a company help system really should work (Player's rage ends at 00:52) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7O94hHueynM

24 Comments

TeemoJenkins1 votes

Sorry sir, but every time I have heard "I don't deserve it" since I started playing people have been smitten and proven to be misrepresenting their victim status.

Bolwinkel1 votes

So you don't see the fact and proof that i have that riot employees just copy and paste the exact same thing every time?

TeemoJenkins1 votes

You broke the end user license agreement when you agreed to be respectful of other players. You say "Riot is a bad company" because they don't let you abuse people? You don't like the company, you post negatively about the company on their forums and ask for other player to buy into your sour grapes? No one makes you play sir, uninstall, and we'll continue playing the game we want.

No company is required to respond dynamically to all user requests regarding negative treatment of their community. Acting like it is your right when any response at all is a privilege.

Bolwinkel1 votes

No i'm saying riot is a bad company because they don't help players. This post has nothing to do with my chat restrictions. It has to do with the fact that riot just copies and pastes pre written stuff. They don't even try to help you out.

Dr Jarjarbinks1 votes

well they didnt try to help YOU out though right? Its like going to prison and complaining the food sucks

Bolwinkel1 votes

How is giving me the exact same information every time going to help me?

Duke Anax1 votes

At least when you go to Prison and ask for different food, because it gives you the runs, they will say: Yes we know the food is bad, but there won't be any other, deal with it.

When you go to Riot and ask for different food, because it gives you the runs, they will say: Yes we agree that the runs are bad with our toilets but we can't change them.

TeemoJenkins1 votes

{quoted}

No i'm saying riot is a bad company because they don't help players. This post has nothing to do with my chat restrictions. It has to do with the fact that riot just copies and pastes pre written stuff. They don't even try to help you out.

Incorrect, you were chat restricted instead of straight up banned. Riot helped you out right there. Wake up call, stop being toxic. 100 game ban? (Honestly I didn't even know they went that long, highest I ever heard was 20 games) That pretty much demonstrates the way you treat people, they tried to give you an object lesson, they aren't required to reply back to in with a custom letter saying "Golle Gee Bolwinkel, could you be a bro and stop cussing people out?" Instead they responded with a form letter stating - Stop it or else.

My suggestion: Stop it. /endthread.

Bolwinkel1 votes

But you know how you normally receive a message after a game about you getting reported? I haven't gotten one in over a month. (BTW 60 games isn't 20)

Jubbinaut1 votes

It's almost like you've got some kind of gripe against form letters.

I mean, they're good enough for universities, banks, and the government, but heaven forbid a game company try to save time by using them to handle what can generally be assumed to be the same question asked over and over again.

Interestingly, the only form letters I've received from Riot support have been of the "thanks for informing us of this, here's other ways you can do so, we'll look into it" variety (received from using Tickets to report out-of-game toxicity). Literally every other response to every other ticket has been exceedingly specific to my situation.

You also seem to have a pretty major misunderstanding of how the chat restriction system works, but since that's ostensibly not the point of your post, I won't bother to craft the Giant Massive Post of Systems Explanation. The short form is: Reports lead to reviews. Reviews lead to punishment. It's an important step.

Bolwinkel1 votes

I have a problem with the fact that there are other companies out there like blizzard that has a call line where you talk to an actual person face to face through skype or google hangouts. My point is that they should be giving useful information and not the exact same un useful information every time. Also they even told me in one of their emails that that was how the automated chat restriction system works.

Jubbinaut1 votes

They must have left out the part about the chat-detection algorithms that scan over the chat in reported games to determine if toxic language was used. And the part about how cases checked by that algorithm are spot-checked by actual support personnel to ensure that it's doing doing crazy stuff (like just issuing punishments no matter what).

At least, that's how Lyte described the system as working, and since he developed it, I'm rather inclined to trust him on the matter.

As to the rest: It's any given company's prerogative to use whatever support options they choose. Some offer tools like live-chat, some offer call centers, and some handle customer service through a kind of email system. Some do more than one of those, or something else entirely.

If you don't like it, you're well within your rights. But the conclusions you're drawing from your own opinion of the system are not hard and fast truths. They're simply more opinions. And while you're welcome to whatever opinions you choose, so is everyone else. And as it turns out, the people who've elected to join your discussion tend to hold opinions that differ from yours.

Personally, I'm strongly of the opinion that Riot Support is pretty damn good. I'd like a more accessible system, with quicker turnaround for individuals, but I can live without it, and I believe that the people they have working there do a very solid job, considering the limitations placed on them.

Of course, I also don't really see any problem with the letter you were sent, either. But then, maybe it's a contextual thing.

Bolwinkel1 votes

How the system was described to me was that it counted the number of times you get reported and that number never reset. I even asked if chat logs got looked at by any means and the answer was no. Their punishment system is bogus though. It has been imo ever since tribunal died. Also with that system you can't go and say "Fck i messed up" or anything in that matter. Also it gets annoying when you get the 4 man pre-mades that force you into a roll where you will get reported not matter what almost. If you go the roll the force you and you do bad you get reported by them. If you say screw them and go your own roll you will get reported even if you do good or bad. That's why solo queue sucks so much because of false reports that will go into the game and look for anything that seems toxic. For example "Buy some fcking boots already". Someone might say that in a game but will say that after saying it nicely multiple times and just getting ticked that the person hasn't. That will seem toxic. I liked it so much better when the community decided the punishment and not a bot system.

Jubbinaut1 votes

Giant Massive Post it is, then. Let's start with the old Forum Knowledge Bases: Ulanopo's Knowledge Base, and Mini KB: Chat Restrictions.

Please understand that both of those represent information gathered over a large period of time, by people who are far cleverer than I. It's my hope to do their efforts justice here. As such, I want to go ahead and state that any failing in the following post is due to my misunderstanding or inability to clearly express the idea, rather than in their work.


Part the First: The Reporting System

The first thing to know about the reporting system is that it doesn't care about individual reports. Instead, it looks at the number of games that you've received reports in. As such, it doesn't much matter how many reports you receive in any particular game, since whether it's 1 report or 9 reports, it's still just one game.

It takes some threshold ratio of reported games to trigger a case. Previously (while the Tribunal was active), this was between 12-25%. There've been no statements about changes to the reporting system, so it's fairly safe to assume that these numbers are still relevant. Once a player has been reported in enough games (relative to the total games that player has played), a case is built against them.

Addendum

A sub-system of the reporting system is the in-client pop-up warning. These warnings appear when a player receives a spike in reported games, relative to his "norm." For example, if you normally receive reports only 1 game out of every 100, but today were reported in 3 out of your 5 games, the warning would be triggered. There's two basic ways a player won't see a warning: rarely ever being reported (keeping your nose clean, basically), or having a very high "norm." In the latter case, the pop-up will fail to trigger, because it cannot detect any spikes, or at least not before a case is built.

Another thing to note about these warnings is that they don't show up immediately. There's a built-in delay intended to obfuscate the specific game that triggered it. It's unknown how long that delay is (though I suspect it's at least slightly variable), or even whether it's tied to the clock or to games played (or some combination).


Part the Second: The Review

This is where things get hazier, unfortunately. There's not a lot of details available for players to see pertaining to the way reviews are handled currently. We do know there are two different review systems (though there may be connections or dependencies between them).

When a case is built by the reporting system, it's compiled and sent to Riot for review. Some cases are checked over by a fairly sophisticated chat-detection algorithm, looking for various indications of negative language and verbal behaviors. If no such indications are found, the case is dropped or Pardoned. If they are, a series of chat restrictions are issued. I suspect that if the algorithm detects sufficiently negative behaviors, it escalates the case for manual review (because that's how I'd do it), but I'm not sure if that's accurate. Regardless, I do know that at least some of the cases examined by the algorithm undergo a second review by a Rioter, to test accuracy (much like the quality checks performed on cars and condoms).

Other cases are sent directly to Rioters. I suspect that this is what happens when the reports are for things other than Verbal Abuse and possibly Negative Attitude. These (and those that may be escalated by the algorithm) are judged in much the same way as the Tribunal handled it, though with far greater access to information than Tribunal judges had. Cases against players determined to be innocent are Pardoned, as before. Those judged guilty, however, are issued 2-week suspensions or Ranked Restrictions. The suspensions appear to be issued in waves, rather than as they come.

It's important to note that cases are judged based on what behavior is found, regardless of what the reports say. For example, if a player is repeatedly reported for Negative Attitude, but the review indicates that he was heavily trolling his team - using Anivia's wall to block them from escaping or making kills, perhaps - the case is still punishable.


Part the Third: The Feedback

To my mind, this is where Riot's current largest failing is. While the Tribunal was active, a "finalized" copy of the case was automatically emailed to a punished player (well, a link to it was, anyway). This allowed for incredibly clear and rapid feedback regarding why the player received a sanction. Unfortunately, when the Tribunal went down, this system went with it.

Currently, chat logs - and other information, I suspect - relating to bans can be obtained by submitting Support tickets on the matter. That policy, however, does not extend to chat restrictions or ranked restrictions at this time. Which, unfortunately, means that players who have received chat restrictions or ranked restrictions have little to no feedback regarding their punishments. Which sucks. I believe that the reason for this is two-fold.

First, the system was intended to continue reviewing the player as their restrictions neared completion, to determine whether or not they had reformed sufficiently. The reissuing of restrictions was, I suspect, believed to be a powerful form of feedback. Unfortunately, the lack of clarity on this seems to have negated whatever benefit it may have had (that, and the buggy nature of how it originally sent out restrictions, but that's supposed to be fixed now).

Secondly, since Chat Restrictions are by far the most common sanction - and manually building sterilized chat logs is quite a chore - it seems likely that the policy was implemented to cut down on overloading the Support personnel. Having seen how overwhelmed they become from ban waves, I can only imagine how much worse it would be on a day-to-day basis if they also needed to respond to chat restrictions with the same clarity.


All of that said, I don't believe that this feedback approach has been very effective or successful, and while I think chat restrictions and ranked restrictions have been shown to be quite effective as sanctions, I'm very eager for the Tribunal's return. Because in terms of behavior education, consistent and clear feedback is the single most important thing. And since the loss of the Reform Card system, I feel that Riot's fallen behind on that.

Duke Anax1 votes

You must have been pretty lucky then, afaik zendesk is partly automated. or at least makes an automatic sugestion for prefab responses.

Don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong with prefab responses, but in case of Riot Support you opften get the wrong prefab, something that has nothing to do with you question, but maybe qith a coincidal keyword in it, for example:

I had a game where all ten players reported good ping and good frames, but major lag. Since all seemed fine on their ends and all had the same problem, it seemed a Server issue, I told the Support so.

They agreed about how frustrating it is if you can't play games because you have connection issues. They told me to stop playing games until I can resolve the issue or I may be banned, then pointed me to the general troubleshooting guide.

I told them I had no connection issues, just what appears to be a Server issue at a specific time.

They answered they were sorry that I couldn't resolve my connection issues even with the guide provideded and asked me to send them some analysis and logs.

i admit at that point I snapped. if Lyte had seen my response I would have gotten restricted for sure, but it actually got me an intelligent (or even just sentient) person to actually read and handle my request. Or at least they said they will be cheking their logs too.

Jubbinaut1 votes

I think the issue you experienced is addressed fairly well in this post by WookieeCookie (emphasis mine):

{quoted}

Hey LumpForrest!

Sorry, I didn't mean to avoid any questions! We don't use any bots or automation to answer our support tickets. We do have some rather big challenges given the size of the player base and the type of questions that players ask us. For those reasons we have some specialists that have more generalized training in a number of issues. Their answers will usually not be as deep or complex. And to be honest with you, for the majority of the tickets that come in this is more than sufficient.

The trick for us, as an organization, is training which helps Generalists identify when an issue requires a more in depth answer and how to escalate that issue to the right people. When I look at the interaction that DeadlyQuestion had, what I take away is that we need better guidance on these escalations. That way, in an alternate world, DeadlyQuestion gets the answers he needs in a more timely manner.

For me, this brings it back to my original point, which is we're still trying to figure out the limits to the information we're looking to share about Leaverbuster to prevent any abuse of the system. I think we may be able to give Generalists more information that they can share with players to stop this from happening in the future.

To summarize: it seems like what you ran across was either a bit of insufficient training on the part of the initial responders, or an uncertainty about how much they could/should say about it.

It's a problem that any form of Support runs across, and is particularly exacerbated by the kind of business Riot has, and what the needs of their Support personnel are. And it's something they're working on improving.

Which doesn't excuse that they were less than helpful, at all, but - hopefully - puts some perspective on it.

Duke Anax1 votes

I understand that no one can have all the answers and that ticket's should first be touched by a generalist. I would understand when they give you an imcomplete answer, or even have no answer at tell you to wait for a specialist.

But what infuriates me is that a lot of these people seem completely unable to understand the questions, or they don' t bother to read the question fully.

So they don't even know if they could answer the question, or who else could if not. They simply send out semi random responses just to get rid of the ticket.

And that actually creates more work for them, because they had to handle three or four tickets from me, where one or two could have done.

Drackolus1 votes

You're thinking about the same Blizzard, right? The one that makes WoW and Diablo? I'm pretty sure you aren't, because that would be amazingly inaccurate of you, because I don't think I've ever seen Blizzard give a response other than a copy paste except for when they post on forums. This is the first time I've HEARD of a call line for Blizzard.

Also, out of the 6 responses from Riot I've gotten, two were form letters. I actually once got a form letter, replied to the form letter, and then got two more real responses because I was reporting a different bug than what they thought it was.

Get used to form letters. EVERYONE is gonna give you form letters. Have you ever gotten a greeting card before? Basically just a form letter. Does that person not care about you because they gave you a form letter, even if they've genuinely communicated with you before?

Bolwinkel1 votes

Yeah but they're supposed to help you not just give you the same crap over and over again.

Drackolus1 votes

You're misunderstanding what's going on here. A copy-paste form letter means that they did not manually type a response, not that they did not read what was happening. When you send that letter to Riot somebody reads the letter, directly looks at your chat logs, and then decides if the bot was right or not. Then they either send you their copy-paste message saying that the bot was right, or they actually have to lift the ban and tell you that it was a mistake. A human read the cases that you told them that was wrong and found that you WERE toxic. The bots might not be perfect, but this time they were right. And no, you don't deserve an extra 10 minutes just to be told again and again that you are repeatedly ruining other's experience. The first chat ban SHOULD have been enough. Shame on you for not even CONSIDERING that YOU may actually be why you're getting chat banned.

Bolwinkel1 votes

Or maybe the fact that i have never been told if the bot has been right or not. Or maybe the fact that i haven't gotten a message saying i have been reported after a game. One of the boxes that says "We know everyone has their bad days". Why just stop telling me i have been getting reported for toxicity. Why stop and not give me the chance to go and change that current behavior. You shouldn't be put on chat restriction for 60 games when you haven't gotten one of those notifications. It doesn't give you an early heads up that you're doing wrong and need to change.

CheesyBud1 votes

{quoted}

Or maybe the fact that i have never been told if the bot has been right or not. Or maybe the fact that i haven't gotten a message saying i have been reported after a game. One of the boxes that says "We know everyone has their bad days". Why just stop telling me i have been getting reported for toxicity. Why stop and not give me the chance to go and change that current behavior. You shouldn't be put on chat restriction for 60 games when you haven't gotten one of those notifications. It doesn't give you an early heads up that you're doing wrong and need to change.

THIS!!!!!!! 100000000000x OVER FIX YOUR SHIT BEFORE YOU LOCK ME OUT NIGGA

Bolwinkel1 votes

If it was over you wouldn't have done that response or called me a "n*gga"

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