Religion is the only hope we have in this country

slippykitten·Dec 21, 2014·6 votes·2,584 views

People complain that religion is what causes all the worlds problems. They even quote john Lenon as a man with ideals for us all (because he was such a role model, right?)

As this country grows more atheist and more antagonistic towards the notion of God, the more problems we seem to be having. The country flourished during the revivals of the great awakening. But i guess we should keep running away from the evil religion monster that will only destroy our nation with such ideals like 'morality' and 'integrity', right?

49 Comments

EpicusmaximoDec 22, 20144 votes

I think you're confusing underlying social issues with religion.

Look at the dipshits in Syria, they're all about religion, and they're most certainly a model for cultural and scientific growth that will benefit humanity.

Learn to think a little deeper.

slippykittenDec 22, 20141 votes

{quoted}

I think you're confusing underlying social issues with religion.

Look at the dipshits in Syria, they're all about religion, and they're most certainly a model for cultural and scientific growth that will benefit humanity.

Learn to think a little deeper.

So what youre saying is that if there is an extreme version of something, then it is indicative that the entire idea is rubbish?

Ok, so Joseph Stalin was one of the worst mass murderers of all time and was also atheist. This clearly states that atheism means death to all. Fair logic, right?

litdutchyDec 22, 20144 votes

lol deep ignorance and lack of education from the religious folks in this thread.... sounds about right.

AnotherAccBannedDec 22, 20144 votes

God created adam and eve. And teemo.

AlljoyDec 22, 20141 votes

And Teemo tempted Adam and Eve with the Forbidden Fruit.

.. or was it a shroom?

I forget.

JubbinautDec 22, 20144 votes

But not Steve. Nobody knows where Steve came from. It's freakin' weird, man.

Lord YuniiDec 21, 20143 votes

I see what you are saying and where you are coming from, but 'religion' isn't the solution. A relationship with Jesus is because He is the way, truth and life and only means of forgiveness for our sins.

slippykittenDec 21, 20142 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Yunii,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=MLoNIAzT,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2014-12-21T23:58:14.408+0000)

I see what you are saying and where you are coming from, but 'religion' isn't the solution. A relationship with Jesus is because He is the way, truth and life and only means of forgiveness for our sins.

True, but ive kept things general for the sake of broad application.

BustexDec 21, 20143 votes

Please dont tell me you get your supposed "morality" from religion

Edited to add onto this:

If you were to get your morality from your religion (no matter what religion it is) it will equate something along the lines of:

stone anybody working on a Sunday
Stone people that are cheating in relationships (because God cares what we do with our genitals)
Women shouldnt be educated, AT ALL
Death for apostasy

I dont think I would want to live in a society such as this

slippykittenDec 22, 20142 votes

{quoted}

Please dont tell me you get your supposed "morality" from religion

Ill indulge you for a moment. If there is no God, and we all came from random processes of evolution and will all die and be no more, then morality is nothing more than a man made structure to try to control others. If i am at the top, then i want others to be 'moral' so i can keep power, but what value is there at the bottom? What benefit is there for the homeless to be 'moral'? So he can starve to death believing he was a 'moral' clump of cells?

Natural selection teaches the only morality is survival. There are no immoral predators, only dead ones and living ones, and the living ones are the ones who killed the others and took their food.

without religion, or rather the notion of God, then all we have is natural selection and to NOT steal, lie and even kill to better my life is foolishness.

RazocDec 22, 20142 votes

{quoted}

Ill indulge you for a moment. If there is no God, and we all came from random processes of evolution and will all die and be no more, then morality is nothing more than a man made structure to try to control others. If i am at the top, then i want others to be 'moral' so i can keep power, but what value is there at the bottom? What benefit is there for the homeless to be 'moral'? So he can starve to death believing he was a 'moral' clump of cells?

Natural selection teaches the only morality is survival. There are no immoral predators, only dead ones and living ones, and the living ones are the ones who killed the others and took their food.

without religion, or rather the notion of God, then all we have is natural selection and to NOT steal, lie and even kill to better my life is foolishness.

Please stop typing. You're giving me a stomach ache.

AlljoyDec 22, 20141 votes

It's probably the ulcers the text induced.

slippykittenDec 22, 20141 votes

[{quoted}](name=Razoc Reborn,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=MLoNIAzT,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2014-12-22T00:05:48.300+0000)

Please stop typing. You're giving me a stomach ache.

Compelling counter point. I appreciate your interest in logic and truth.

LuluInWonderlandDec 22, 20142 votes

How do you get from a lack of religion as a source for morals to having morality as a means to control people? Having shared and agreed-upon morals is a necessity for survival with our without religion.

"(if)...we all came from random processes of evolution..." I don't think you know what evolution is. Read up first, please. Also, to deny evolution is to deny tangible and quantifiable facts. While our conclusions and tools to reach those conclusions may be wrong, without an alternate theory that can also be tested it's like saying 1 + 1 = 5 because I'm told/believe 1 + 1 = 5. FYI Math is also a man made invention.

slippykittenDec 22, 20142 votes

{quoted}

Please dont tell me you get your supposed "morality" from religion

Edited to add onto this:

If you were to get your morality from your religion (no matter what religion it is) it will equate something along the lines of:

stone anybody working on a Sunday

Stone people that are cheating in relationships (because God cares what we do with our genitals)

Women shouldnt be educated, AT ALL

Death for apostasy

I dont think I would want to live in a society such as this

So hows the straw man argument without any validity treating you?

BustexDec 22, 20141 votes

I actually was hoping for an actual reply as to why those laws would be good in today's society, guess it isn't.

slippykittenDec 22, 20141 votes

{quoted}

I actually was hoping for an actual reply as to why those laws would be good in today's society, guess it isn't.

The laws you made up and attributed to religion? Sorry, but i am not up for trying to justify ideas made up to try to make religion look stupid.

If you want to discuss moral laws found in the bible than i might be able to help.

BustexDec 22, 20142 votes

[deleted]

slippykittenDec 22, 20143 votes

{quoted}

Ok lets start

1)God says kill people that dont believe why? because hes at the very top and (like you said) if your at the top you need to stay there:

Deuteronomy 13:6-10New International Version (NIV)

6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

If you sleep with your brothers wife you better get her pregnant!

Genesis 38:9-10New International Version (NIV)

9 But Onan knew that the child would not be his; so whenever he slept with his brother’s wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from providing offspring for his brother. 10 What he did was wicked in the Lord’s sight; so the Lord put him to death also.

Dont be curious. 1 Samuel 6:19New International Version (NIV)

19 But God struck down some of the inhabitants of Beth Shemesh, putting seventy[a] of them to death because they looked into the ark of the Lord. The people mourned because of the heavy blow the Lord had dealt them.

Want more examples? ask you shall receive. Also dont make a vague statement about all three of these, instead explain them one by one.

Ok here we go.

Here is a point that applies to all three and then i will answer them all specifically. There was a period within old testament history where God considered the nation his "arm" and that he was the "head". They were considered a theocracy because God was in charge verbally. He spoke to them, directly explaining his wishes. To attempt this today would be foolish, as none can discern his exact desire in each case. He is able to judge as he pleases, holding the rights to life and death in his hands. I understand this may not satisfy so i will answer specifically.

You must understand that the alternative belief systems in that area during that time were quite problematic. It wasn't like typical religions of today that are just alternative belief systems, these others had severe social repercussions. for example, one popular god of the day was Molech, who called for all first borns to be placed in a red hot brazen statue as an offering, and if he rolled into the statue, he was to be killed as an offering, and if he rolled out then he was just horrifically maimed for life. Nearly every god in other societies had practices that would harm the entirety of the people if allowed to flourish. So basically what is more evil, to kill the person introducing baby sacrifice or to let 10's of thousands of babies to be killed? Your perspective that God was murdering without cause was actually him protecting people.
This was partly because of the social structure of the day. God never commanded that a woman could not own land, but that is what they did. Because of this system, if your husband died, you would be destitute and most likely starve to death without a male heir. Therefore your husbands brother coming in and giving you an heir was your only salvation and him having sex but not giving you the heir was an act of intentional malice. He wanted to pleasure of sleeping with you, but was willing to let you die without hope anyway. As a side note, many of Gods commands were given to help man within his social situations, which are not necessarily validations of those social situations.
The ark pictured many things. This was not a blanket proclamation against curiosity, but rather a command not to taint what was a very important aspect of gods plan. Once again, God does hold the right to life and death in his hand and this was not the people who put others to death, but God who personally killed them. If you are curious about the specifics of the ark, i can tell you, but it was a specific religious piece and not a social structure.

Also to note within the bible, there are several types of laws. There are moral laws, that are applicable to all people all the time. Then there were ceremonial laws, applicable only to the jews for specific religious pictures. Then there were laws given specifically to israel during the time they were specifically governed by God, not to be repeated by any other nations. There were also sanitary laws that applied only to people with barbaric sanitary options to keep them safe which were later abolished as unnecessary.

BustexDec 22, 20142 votes

Ok I'm not gonna say I read that all but I have skimmed through it. If your able to make an argument for those points you got my vote. Props.

JubbinautDec 22, 20143 votes

At least one of those examples is genuinely presented in the Bible. It's been a while since I read the Old Testament, so I can't say for sure, but I believe that all of them are.

BustexDec 22, 20142 votes

In his defense some of them are from the bible and others are from the Qur'an.

dogmythJan 9, 20151 votes

The Bible does not tell us to apply these laws to American culture, it was Jewish culture.

For one, where in the Bible does it say that it is a sin for a woman to be educated? It actually says the opposite because God commands to teach your children about Him and His law.

Israel was very quickly led astray, and if a small minority were to start practicing apostasy, the whole nation may quickly fall to it and then most of the nation might end up ding (e.g. the Exile). A few people here and there dying is better than most of the nation. It would be better that no one dies but it is the person's choice to worship pagan gods and they will suffer the consequences (and atheists can't tell me that the few dying is so terrible because in the past 40 years dozens of millions of people have died from abortion; unborn babies ARE people; not to mention all the mothers who aborted their babies and committed suicide after because of how bad they felt).

God required Israel to be perfect, and actually since God is holy and commanded us to be holy as well, He has the right to kill us the first time we sin and by all means should, but because He is merciful and loving He does not and instead gave us the gift of salvation through faith in Christ's atonement for us on the cross. God loves for you; no matter what you do or even of you hate Him, He still loves you.

LuluInWonderlandDec 22, 20143 votes

People have made the same argument on the decline of religion and the country as a whole since it was created. Step back and take a bigger look at the picture and you can see that there has not been a significant change in overall spirituality in a long time. People are just more open talking about various spiritual beliefs nowadays whereas it was frowned upon in the past.

Also, some facts:

The US has the highest per capita belief in a God than any other (major, modern) country
Americans are less likely to identify with any particular religion affiliation compared to the past, opting for more "unified"/"federated" views
The country flourished in the past not due to any particular religion. It flourished due to many socioeconomic factors as well as the freedom of not having any particular religion.
Religious views are more common in elder Americans than each generation than came after it. This has been the pattern for centuries and does not indicate a decrease in total religious practice - people tend to look towards religion later in their life. Given that the average life expectancy has increased significantly compared to the people from the most recent great revival/awakening, this happens later in life in terms of total years.
What does this have to do with LoL?
How does somebody else's religious preference, if any, affect you?

slippykittenDec 22, 20142 votes

{quoted}

People have made the same argument on the decline of religion and the country as a whole since it was created. Step back and take a bigger look at the picture and you can see that there has not been a significant change in overall spirituality in a long time. People are just more open talking about various spiritual beliefs nowadays whereas it was frowned upon in the past.

Also, some facts:

The US has the highest per capita belief in a God than any other (major, modern) country

Americans are less likely to identify with any particular religion affiliation compared to the past, opting for more "unified"/"federated" views

The country flourished in the past not due to any particular religion. It flourished due to many socioeconomic factors as well as the freedom of not having any particular religion.

Religious views are more common in elder Americans than each generation than came after it. This has been the pattern for centuries and does not indicate a decrease in total religious practice - people tend to look towards religion later in their life. Given that the average life expectancy has increased significantly compared to the people from the most recent great revival/awakening, this happens later in life in terms of total years.

What does this have to do with LoL?

How does somebody else's religious preference, if any, affect you?

I will answer all those points

Highest belief in 'god' and actual following of religious principles are two very different things. As you actually noted, people are much less connected to religion or of actually following religious ideas. What does having an internal belief in God that doesnt manifest itself in decision making mean for society?
Youre opinion that the country flourished without the influence of specific religion is not validated in any way. It very specifically flourished in huge ways directly after each great awakening.
Statistically speaking, many RETURN to religion later in life, but few TURN to religion later in life. So, no, youre opinion that religious affiliation actually is the same, is not true.
This has nothing to do with lol in any way whatsoever.
Someone elses religious preference can affect me in a number of ways. When a good friend of mine died in 9/11, some one elses religious preferences affected my life (and more notably, his) in a great way.

LuluInWonderlandDec 22, 20141 votes

I think you misunderstood what I said. I never stated people are less connected to religion or less likely to following religious practices. I said they don't self-identify with any particular affiliation. That does not mean they don't practice the teachings, or they may practice them in differing ways than certain affiliations. That said, I'm not sure how you can measure/quantify people actually following religious practices. As an example, devote Christians that attend service every week may steal, lie, cheat on loved ones, etc. How would that be measured? The only real means we have is to go by a person's self-identification, which is likely heavily skewed.
I don't see how your claim can be substantiated. The country flourished due to a multitude of internal and global factors, and to point at any specific religion as a direct cause is to undermine all of those impacts.
It's not an opinion - what I stated are factual and verifiable statements. I even pulled up a couple studies backing that claim prior to posting. Anyway, I think you're splitting hairs here. Many children are raised to follow a specific religion. However, if they choose not to be a follower once they have true freedom to do so without punishment from authorities (parents/guardians, etc.), then they should no longer be counted as one until they "return".
Good. I'm not really seeing the point of having this conversation here as I think it would be better suited on other sites. The game is targeted and skewed towards the younger crowd. It comes off as fishing for flaming.
Really? Wow...that's just racist, man. Get out. Nobody's religious preference affected you or your friend on 9/11. Their distorted political agenda and fanatical actions were the cause. No "religion" that encourages killings of non-believers is really a religion. Islam certainly is, but what those people did is not and to mix the two is wrong on so many levels.

slippykittenDec 22, 20142 votes

Really? Wow...that's just racist, man. Get out. Nobody's religious preference affected you or your friend on 9/11. Their distorted political agenda and fanatical actions were the cause. No "religion" that encourages killings of non-believers is really a religion. Islam certainly is, but what those people did is not and to mix the two is wrong on so many levels.

Its racist to say that the people who claimed they were doing something because muslim faith told them to were doing for religion? I dont think i even mentioned race at all. Im not sure you are aware what a 'race' is.

LuluInWonderlandDec 22, 20141 votes

It's the vernacular use of the phrase. Is "religious intolerance" better? They are equally bad.

slippykittenDec 22, 20141 votes

{quoted}

It's the vernacular use of the phrase. Is "religious intolerance" better? They are equally bad.

How tolerant would you be if it was your head they were trying to remove from your body for allah?

LuluInWonderlandDec 22, 20141 votes

lol Nice try troll. Bye~

RazocDec 21, 20142 votes

Religious zealot.

Religion creates separation from others. Which creates rifts in society.

slippykittenDec 21, 20142 votes

[{quoted}](name=Razoc Reborn,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=MLoNIAzT,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2014-12-21T23:56:47.582+0000)

Religious zealot.

I didnt even state i was religious, only that religion isnt the cause of the problems people claim, but may in fact be a solution, if history is to be believed. If religion actually is abolished, who will the left blame for all the problems they create then?

RazocDec 22, 20141 votes

{quoted}

I didnt even state i was religious, only that religion isnt the cause of the problems people claim, but may in fact be a solution, if history is to be believed. If religion actually is abolished, who will the left blame for all the problems they create then?

That was mostly a joke. The left? Please get your right wing crap out of here. Use your brain for once in your life and realize that both parties are worthless.

slippykittenDec 22, 20141 votes

[{quoted}](name=Razoc Reborn,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=MLoNIAzT,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2014-12-22T00:00:51.188+0000)

That was mostly a joke. The left? Please get your right wing crap out of here. Use your brain for once in your life and realize that both parties are worthless.

This is true, but typically the right dont audibly blame God and religion for their social malfunctions.

JubbinautDec 22, 20141 votes

{quoted}

This is true, but typically the right dont audibly blame God and religion for their social malfunctions.

This is true, but only because the Right audibly blames a lack of God and religion for their social malfunctions.

It's... it's almost like religion isn't really so much a factor in social malfunctions as it is a convenient scapegoat.

Weird how that works.

litdutchyDec 22, 20142 votes

Religion is a crutch. Antagnostic isn't a word. Quit bein a troll.

slippykittenDec 22, 20141 votes

{quoted}

Religion is a crutch. Antagnostic isn't a word. Quit bein a troll.

You're right, antagnostic isn't a word, good thing i said antagonistic, which is a word.

Everyone can see you as case example one though. The guy who has no thoughts other than that religion is a troll thing to propose without any reasoning, factual or opinionated, at all. Thanks for proving my point.

L0reweaverDec 22, 20142 votes

You're right. Have you met my friend Eshu? Come down to the crossroads and he'll be happy to share with you all he knows.

AnotherAccBannedDec 22, 20142 votes

It was a shroom.

Blade of JusticDec 22, 20142 votes

You may have gotten the others, OP, but I won't fall pray to this B8, M8.

DirewolfiezDec 22, 20142 votes

OP: "I'm bored, so I'm gonna start a flame war for shits and giggles. Won't that be fun?! PLOX FEED ME MOAR GUIZE"

Just downvote and move on. Giving this weirdo attention will just make them worse.

Drunk RummateJan 9, 20152 votes

When people start identifying themselves as X or Y and saying X is better than Y is when we have problems.

The Bipartisan political system is a terrible cancer, for example. Because now you vote republican or democrat. And it ruins the media because the republicans own this station and the democrats own that station and nobody who thinks in between gets represented.

Religious systems are a terrible cancer for a similar reason, because you have extremists of the faith who bomb people for poking fun at them or others who get persecuted for thinking a certain way. Remove labels completely and it ends up boiling down to what people truly think in conversation, rather than the stereotypes associated with their label.

So many people I know hate "Muslims" because they associate Islam with terrorism, because of the extremist sect that's so popular in the media. So many people I know hate "Christians" because of the evangelist sect that gets so much attention. Labels and systems like this are terrible because they take away what it means to be a human being with your own beliefs and they remove our ability to be truly represented.

On an individual level religion and faith can be great. It gives some people reason to live, it gives others morals and values to live by. On a public level it's caused nothing but harm. History proves this.

JubbinautJan 9, 20151 votes

{quoted} On an individual level religion and faith can be great. It gives some people reason to live, it gives others morals and values to live by. On a public level it's caused nothing but harm. History proves this.

Or, as I like to put it, "Religion is fine, it's organization that makes it terrible."

slippykittenDec 22, 20141 votes

Downvoted but not disproved. Because the anti God crowd has a superiority complex so deep that they don't even feel like they need to prove their point. Bully the religious into silence, the tactic of the day.

StudflowerDec 22, 20145 votes

Contrary to your statement, the atheist/agnostic group is the neutral party in this discussion. Religion makes the claim which determines the ultimatum (end of life) for both parties, and atheists discard this claim. It isn't the other way around.

The superiority complex stems from the Bible, the "Living Word of God" as they say, which commands in its "Great Commandment"; To make disciples of all nations. It stems from the fact that each religion whole-heartedly states that their way is the "only one and true way to life and salvation" and leaves no room for discussion, no matter how factual or logical they are. Take Creationists, for example, and their arguments against Radio Carbon Dating against the belief that the earth is literally ~6000 years old. What about missionaries in lesser developed countries? "I come with food and water, AND the one true way to Salvation." - If this isn't "superiority complex," then I don't know what is.

However, NONE OF THIS ARGUMENT matters. At the end of the day, Religion relies on its crutch of, "What if?". What if God is indeed real? It's a question with answers which isn't yet known to the living, and won't ever be (dare I say...). If anything, maybe in the year 3000, Jesus will become the likes of Zeus of today.

So please, stop this religious banter on League of Legends forums. It's literally the worst place to have this kind of conversation and does nothing positive for both sides.

AlljoyDec 22, 20141 votes

In the harsh environment you refer to as a habitable planet, group behaviors are required to survive long enough to procreate. Since you are stupid monkeys, you have no natural affinity for group altruism. And so you have evolved a genetic pump that delivers pleasant chemicals to your monkey brains. One that is triggered by awe and fear of an anthropomorphism of your environment. Earth mothers. Sky gods. Bits of bush that catch fire. Interesting-looking rocks. An oddly-shaped branch. You’re not fussy. When your brain does this idiot work, you stop in front of that bump or stick and consider it fiercely. Other monkeys will, like as not, stop next to you and emulate you. Your genetic pump delivers morphine for your souls. You have your fellow monkeys join in. Perhaps so they can feel it too. Perhaps because you feel it might please the stick god to have more monkeys gaze at it in narcotic awe. The group must be defended. Because as many monkeys as possible must please the stick god, and you can continue to get your fix off praying to it. You draw up rules to organize and protect the group. Two hundred thousand years later, you put Adolf Hitler into power. Because you are, after all, just monkeys. I am your stash.

AnotherAccBannedDec 22, 20141 votes

Look I can copy and paste too guys.

RazocDec 22, 20141 votes

Be open-minded and be willing to alter your beliefs with new evidence.
Strive to understand what is most likely to be true, not to believe what you wish to be true.
The scientific method is the most reliable way of understanding the natural world.
Every person has the right to control of their body.
God is not necessary to be a good person or to live a full and meaningful life.
Be mindful of the consequences of all your actions and recognize that you must take responsibility for them.
Treat others as you would want them to treat you, and can reasonably expect them to want to be treated. Think about their perspective.
We have the responsibility to consider others, including future generations.
There is no one right way to live.
Leave the world a better place than you found it.

EIven RopeDec 22, 20141 votes

I worship Satan. Sorry child, but you are seriously misunderstanding the meaning of life. Please, attempt to enjoy your life, don't dampen the possibilities with your mindless acceptance of what you "can and can't" do. Do what feels good and right to you.