Instead of crying for nerfs, recognize weaknesses and learn to counter instead.

Lao Fu the Tiger·4/13/2015, 3:08:57 PM·81 votes·4,739 views

Did your opponent lock in Zed?

Now introducing Annie, Urgot, Akali, Lulu ,Fiddlesticks, Kayle, Lissandra, Malzahar, Vladimir, and many more!

Locked in your mid laner as a first pick blind and the enemy thought to himself, "Hmm, they first picked a super squishy mid laner with no hard CC and no mobility for dodging my Zed mekkanicz"? Never fear! The based Rito Gods have provided you with two items item 3139 item 3157 to deal with arguably the easiest to counter assassin in the game! Uuuuuuuuuunbuhleevuble!

Don't want to build these items because they change your standard build path or you don't like buying them anyway? Then don't complain when you get assassinated.

I only use Zed here because of the most recent thread asking for a Zed nerf. It brought up great discussion, and I enjoyed everything from both sides. But ultimately, Riot has done a good job of giving Zed and others clear counterplay. Sure, they may be frustrating to lane against (and honestly, even this isn't true if you counter pick well; rarely when I pick Annie into Zed do I have a hard time managing mana or farming well, for example), but in some cases such as Zed, a strong landing phase is his biggest strength, because a Zed that falls behind generally stays behind. He's a great early and mid game champion and a weaker late game champion.

I'm on a phone so formatting and content are probably lacking, and I'll edit later.

But anyway. Before demanding nerfs, I ask you simply consider counterplaying the enemy. In fact, play that champ you struggle against. Then you can better understand exactly what their strengths and weaknesses are first hand :)

The goal here is ultimately to help people realize that counter-picking and counter-building are two vitally important aspects of League. Counter-picking may not have as much impact in lower elos, but it is still an important concept.

100 Comments

CarlFromAbove4/13/2015, 3:17:19 PM92 votes

"Rock is OP, Paper is fine"-Scissors

BeatzBoyFTW4/13/2015, 3:29:01 PM18 votes

Yorick disapproves.

DeusVult4/13/2015, 11:34:12 PM16 votes

I agree with you, but I have 1 thought

The enemy picks Zed or Yasuo or Riven

you are beating them, but not by a lot because you are playing one of their counters; yet how often do you see them have to alter their build path from item 3144 + item 3134 or item 3087 or item 3134 + item 3074? Never. Regardless of who plays against them or what is built against them, these champs never have to build anything in lane in order to counter their opponents

Budupops4/13/2015, 9:14:41 PM10 votes

LeeSin main detected

NinjaToad994/13/2015, 7:31:40 PM9 votes

But then I'd have to think on how to actually play the game!

WolfChases4/13/2015, 9:18:30 PM8 votes

Well I have to agree with you that you can pick a certain champ to counter the other one, for example Zed. You can counter him with Swain, Liss, Vlad, Urgot, etc, toy can also counter him buy getting some items as u listed in your post but, the problem is that it's not only that Zed will potentially get fed in mid lane, there's also bot and top lane where Zed can roam post 6. Even if you are warding constantly, sooner or later you will get cough as ADC because well...getting QSS around lvl 6 isn't a good idea right? Buy the time Zed hits 6 as an ADC you will most likely have just Dorans, BF and finished boots/Pick axe.

Again, laning against Zed is painfull. Why? Look, he is a melee assassin with long ranged poke, easy last hit and awesome clear, and a lot of mobility which he can use to engage or escape. Let's say that mages are created to have a good push and clear while assassins are supposed to benefit from roaming mostly because their laning phase is weak, Zed doesn't have that problem because he's good at both, roaming, pushing, killing. Look at Talon for example, If he clears minions with Rake, he will get OOM soon and his AA isn't even close as good as Zed's AA (passive OP) so it's harder to lasthit as Talon, Akali, Katarina etc. Tell me how many Akali players have u seen dominating the laning phase? They are mostly getting fed by roaming to bot and why are u able to see 5/0/0 Kararina with 45 CS at 10 min mark? Because Katas laning phase isn't that great, so she got that kills on Bot lane by roaming. Zed is getting fed in laning phase and by roaming too.

I am not bitching because I barely play against Zed, I am banning him all the time but seriously. What is the purpose of playing a Mage if 1 single assassin is outpoking, outdamaging, outfarming and outpushing you?

Pæan4/13/2015, 9:18:51 PM8 votes

IKR?! Ever since I've started using pink-wards I can dodge those pesky Nid spears

Ratbert4/13/2015, 8:06:16 PM7 votes

Those items counter his ult, now try to counter his blinks. Sure you won't die, but if zed doesn't, does that mean he's countered?

NinjaFifer4/14/2015, 6:53:40 AM5 votes

You know who the majority of people who complain about Zed are? Casuals, like me. People who don't only play ranked because they don't much care about having to be better than other people. All this talk about counterpicking is useless if you don't play ranked, so tell me, what else, besides a 3200 or 3700 gold item, counters Zed?

Assassins, as a whole, have a certain purpose. Their playstyle is most often referred to as "farming champions, not minions," and therein lies the problem. All the other assassins have a central theme (aside from LeBlanc, but she's also complained about, so she fits with Zed for the same reason): they suck at farming and pushing a lane, but have a much easier time going 1v1 against a champion. They trade laning power for dueling power. Zed does not make this trade. The only real problem I have with Zed is that he can push and farm a lane just as well as any mage, the role which is designed to farm and push lanes, and he can do it without having to worry about resource costs at all.

The double Doran's Ring you had to buy just to keep your mana levels up, he could put into double Doran's Blades that he can use to keep his HEALTH topped up. Sure, you use Annie, a champ who has innate mana conservation and an easy farm button, as an example of a champ who does just fine against Zed, and you still state that you need double Doran's and to stay under tower just to survive the laning phase. He has his counters, but they don't involve changing strategy or being more risky in order to come out on top; they all involve hiding under tower and buying one of two items just to keep from feeding.

Zed doesn't need a nerf to his ability to kill champions. That's his job, let him do it. In fact, I say screw it, Don't let his ult mark (or anyone else's similarly functioning ability) be removed by QSS. But you know what he does need? A nerf to his Razor Shuriken secondary target damage. A nerf to his slipperiness might be in order, such as making his Ult shadow go behind his target like it was on release, but his primary problem is his ability to be better at a mage's job than most any other mage.

Jeddy0174/13/2015, 8:37:16 PM5 votes

What Riot or people or both needs to start doing are defining strengths & weaknesses.

Riot needs to explain what makes a champ strong AND their weak points.Both when champ is alone & working with team because some champs are better 1v1-ing/splitpushing than they are in a teamfight & vice versa.They need to tell players what said champ works against & what works against said champ. Players needs figure this information out as well so they don't decide to pick Lux into a Zed

Solaxo4/13/2015, 6:55:51 PM5 votes

You know, you have to build Zhonya components first. Before you do that, Zed will destroy you in a lane few times already. And you have to build mana regen items later. And Mercurial Scimitar protects from magic damage so it's a waste of stat AND it's very expensive, LATE game item.

Intimidator4/14/2015, 9:42:22 AM3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lao Fu the Tiger,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=LKIAbRZi,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-04-13T15:08:57.591+0000)

Did your opponent lock in Zed?

Now introducing Annie, Urgot, Akali, Lulu ,Fiddlesticks, Kayle, Lissandra, Malzahar, Vladimir, and many more!

There's a couple of problems with your argument. First most of these champions do not deny a good Zed CS and probably won't kill him either. So he can just constantly push the wave in and roam. Second most of us don't want to learn a couple of champions to just be able to play vs 1 champion. Let's face it how many times you've seen a first time akali/vlad/whatever who just dies to Zed again and again because they don't actually know how to play their champ well?

Locked in your mid laner as a first pick blind and the enemy thought to himself, "Hmm, they first picked a super squishy mid laner with no hard CC and no mobility for dodging my Zed mekkanicz"? Never fear! The based Rito Gods have provided you with two items item 3139 item 3157 to deal with arguably the easiest to counter assassin in the game! Uuuuuuuuuunbuhleevuble!

Don't want to build these items because they change your standard build path or you don't like buying them anyway? Then don't complain when you get assassinated.

Seekers does help but will give mana champs a hard time pushing the wave back in. A good Zed will see your single doran +seekers and will push and roam. Or he might poke you down enough so you can be killed anyways with ult + ignite + couple auto's.

But anyway. Before demanding nerfs, I ask you simply consider counterplaying the enemy. In fact, play that champ you struggle against. Then you can better understand exactly what their strengths and weaknesses are first hand :)

The goal here is ultimately to help people realize that counter-picking and counter-building are two vitally important aspects of League. Counter-picking may not have as much impact in lower elos, but it is still an important concept.

Thing is Zed actually has few weaknesses in his kit. Can't really deny him CS because of manaless waveclear + lasthit passive. Hard to gank him with unconditional blink and his ult swap for jukes. Can't really safefarm under tower because you'll get manaless poke in the face and he still dives you and escapes.

I agree that Zed's lategame is pretty bad if the enemy team knows what to do but it's hard to get to late when Zed is already 10/0 splitpushing lanes or just sieging towers and diving

Champion Skin4/13/2015, 9:54:21 PM3 votes

Well Zhonyas activate can screw over a lot of champions and abilities

Nin10do00144/13/2015, 7:47:22 PM3 votes

Fiora is another option.

Sky is going to kill me...