To everyone who thinks that anyone in Bronze knows nothing about LoL

Lugg·7/5/2015, 3:26:45 AM·56 votes·6,254 views

It truly amazes me to see how many people in higher ELO that believe people in low ELO cannot possibly have legitimate insight into the game.

Let's compare it to football. Do you realize how many coaches and scouts, that are regarded as experts in the game, have never actually played football above the high school level? Also, look at how many players were great on the field but absolutely clueless when it came to coaching or analyzing games. Being around the game alone can educate you on it.

I have played in many games with Diamond and Platinum players and I hold my own quite well. You really aren't the far ahead of guys I have faced in Bronze. In fact, I have been amazed at how little some Diamond players actually know about the game as a whole. There is so much great information online that you learn about the game, you should never assume someone doesn't know what they are talking about.

If you have to say that someone doesn't know because they are Bronze, you are probably only saying that because you can't actually refute their post. So please have some respect for peoples opinions no matter their rank.

129 Comments

Jamaree7/5/2015, 3:30:51 AM13 votes

While everyone down there doesn't have those problems and might actually know what they are talking about, I have seen bronze players building things like chalice...on Draven...so yeeeeeah.

Arcus Diabolus7/5/2015, 3:35:58 AM7 votes

You're not wrong, but expect to get flamed because GD is becoming Reddit circlejerk 2.0. This game takes middle school math to understand, and anyone who took a stroll through the league Wiki will usually know more about the game than their rank lets on anyway.

Most of the game is decision making and team cooperation, anyway, which makes me pay more attention to 5v5s rather than Solo queue when gauging someone's skill level. Not particularly sure why people focus on Solo queue so much, for that reason.

EDIT: Shit, I'd argue once you hit Gold, you've hit the mechanical cap this game allows you to get to. As I said before, most of this game is team cooperation, not mechanical skill.

C9 Best Swain NA7/5/2015, 9:47:10 PM4 votes

There is no comparison between a diamond and a bronze player. Normals are exactly that, Normals. When I'm playing norms i've usually got a beer in one hand and a joint in the other. I also try out new builds, champs, roles and play things I'm terrible at. The diamonds and plats you played against were probably either drunk/high, playing a role they aren't familiar with "adc in my case" or bought their accounts. Just because you can hold your own against me when I've had 6 beers and a joint and I'm adding doesn't mean you'd have a snowballs chance in hell if you lane against me in the mid or top lane when i'm sober. I play with my diamond buddies and we all drink and have a good time and get shit talked by golds/plats about being bad when i can barely see straight tell ya what. You get together 4 of your bronze friends and ill get together 4 of my diamond buddies and I will guarantee you we will have a 8-10000 gold lead by 20 minutes in every. single. game. tl;dr if you're in bronze, you belong there and bronze players are bad at this game.

YOLO420SWAGSCOPE7/5/2015, 4:38:12 AM4 votes

it's not really about how much you know... it's about how you're willing to look at the other side. Like when i pick a champ that's not meta and take it to a lane that's not their meta, i get flamed at for "trolling", just because it's not "meta". You'll never know if something is good unless you try it yourself, can't just assume something is bad based on what everyone else does

T RexHasTinyArms7/5/2015, 5:38:41 AM3 votes

TLDR; 2 issues: 1, sports have other limiting factors, league has fewer so it's probably knowledge limiting someone on some level; 2, if we are talking coaches who are great strategists, but not players, they played high school varsity probably which is at a minimum probably top 25% of the population of people who play that sport, so they would be low gold on the ladder in league.

I think it's definitely a good argument and a lot of people disregard information they shouldn't just because it comes from someone low elo. However, let me play devil's advocate for a moment.

I think the analogy of coaches in sports is a great example of the concept that sometimes it isn't the best players that create the best strategy or macro level game play. However, in the interest of providing a legitimate counter point to be refuted if the original argument is indeed the best, let me argue two issues that were overlooked here.

The first argument I would counter with is that there are different limiting factors between progression in sports and progression in league ranks. If you're short you will not play high school, let a lone college basketball most likely. However, the only real limiting factor in league is reaction time. There are a host of physical attributes a good player may lack (in addition to reaction time), which keep them from progressing beyond high school sports, but there are minimal limiting factors which can keep a player from being able to progress in league if they are able to understand the game intricately. Yes there are some players who will have slow reaction times, or cannot focus for the length of a league game, and are great at theory crafting, but they are a smaller proportion of the community. Therefore it is highly likely that a low elo player picked at random will have significant deficiencies in game knowledge and strategy concepts compared to the skills of a high elo player. This creates a lot of bias that has to be intentionally refuted by players who intend to seriously consider the advice of bronze players.

The second, and more interesting argument is to look at what high school ball would be considered in terms of elo when we are discussing coaching and game theory. The vast majority of sports coaches played at a minimum of high school level if not college ball, and then generally build their coaching experience over years of being a position coach or assistant coach before becoming head coach. So pro ball is the challenger level (maybe the bench or developmental leagues are masters?), but what level is high school ball? You're stating that bronze players may be similar to esteemed coaches because like coaches, they can't play past a lower level, but may have good strategy or theory. However, there is the consideration of things like rec sports, and middle school sports, and how many people get cut when we move from that consideration to high school. If we assume that almost all coaches played their sport at at least varsity high school level skill, then we have a comparison point. We have already dropped everyone who only plays rec, and anyone who didn't practice enough as a kid to continue on in high school, then we drop everyone who doesn't make it off the freshman team, and everyone who never makes it past JV. We have maybe 25% of the population of people who "play the sport" left by varsity high school (probably less)? Coaches understand the game enough that even if they aren't good they make the bench on varsity because they can be position players, or because they help the team understand plays and are useful in practice to get the team better and more coordinated. So if this is the minimum level most successful coaches play to in sports, what does that translate to in league? Well where is the top 20-25% of the ladder? The cut off is low gold (and I mean gold mmr, not gold ranked, but plays against all silver teams). If we assume that varsity high school is a smaller % of the players for that sport, then suddenly we may be talking plat or low diamond for the level that successful, high quality coaches come from. In this model, low elo players may have a good idea, but it is likely to be akin to a trick play that is interesting, but doesn't match up to knowing the whole game well enough to coach.

I'd love to hear counter points, because I think there are some good ones, but I like to only take one side of the argument in socratic discussion (pretty sure that's the model, but then I didn't pay attention in philosophy as an undergrad because seriously who uses philosophy class ever?).

Curling Veigar7/5/2015, 9:53:04 PM2 votes

diamond is elo hell

GundayMonday7/6/2015, 10:42:13 PM2 votes

Of the same mindset. It's not "who's right", it's "what's right". Good insight can come from players of all skill levels.

But others in the thread do have a pretty good point. If you know so much, why aren't you ranked higher? Sometimes you have to walk the walk if you want credibility when you talk the talk. Diamond players don't know everything, but they know enough to beat ~98% of the ranked player base. Generally speaking, that is worth something.

Rueian7/6/2015, 11:21:17 PM2 votes

The issue is a bronze player cant have a great grasp of mid-high level play. They have insight into low level play.

If they had good insight at high level play, they'd place higher simply for the fact that they'd know how the game works more. Literally going from bronze to silver is a matter of just focusing on getting the free gold across the map.

Aerothal7/7/2015, 2:15:45 PM2 votes

{quoted}

It truly amazes me to see how many people in higher ELO that believe people in low ELO cannot possibly have legitimate insight into the game.

Let's compare it to football. Do you realize how many coaches and scouts, that are regarded as experts in the game, have never actually played football above the high school level? Also, look at how many players were great on the field but absolutely clueless when it came to coaching or analyzing games. Being around the game alone can educate you on it.

I have played in many games with Diamond and Platinum players and I hold my own quite well. You really aren't the far ahead of guys I have faced in Bronze. In fact, I have been amazed at how little some Diamond players actually know about the game as a whole. There is so much great information online that you learn about the game, you should never assume someone doesn't know what they are talking about.

If you have to say that someone doesn't know because they are Bronze, you are probably only saying that because you can't actually refute their post. So please have some respect for peoples opinions no matter their rank.

with all love from fellow Bronzie to fellow Bronzie...you are not right on this one man.

This game is so deep, it goes way above cs'ing and warding (which by the way, if you do them right can alone get you out of Bronze).

If i knew all about wave control, freezing, wave dynamics, map pressure and when to engage, not engage, what playing on blue vs red side means and how to build accordingly, how to always reactively build in all situations and when to help a lane and when to rather focus on your own lane, when to push, when to defend, when to group....and so on and so on... I'd be out of bronze in no time. there are so many layers to this game which i dont have the time or drive to penetrate. That's the reason i am in bronze.

When a higher elo player tells you that a bronze player doesnt know the game, he means that there are some aspects to the game the Bronze player has not learned or fails to grasp. And he is right.

you really think its all about mechanics?