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Exploring player behavior (without being condescending)

slippykitten·11/27/2014, 2:56:27 AM·9 votes·3,077 views
Exploring Player Behavior Design Values

TL;DR - Riot needs to take responsibility for their community, instead of blaming them, and develop means to reduce the CAUSES of toxicity.

Riots recent article on player behavior perfectly articulates the main problem behind toxicity. Let me break down what they really said:

  1. Gamers will naturally be toxic without provocation and toxicity is a result of gamers not being punished. Riot stated "In the early days of the internet, players might use racist or homophobic language and nothing would happen; as a result, deviant behaviors not only emerge, but become the norm. In these cases, a non-action such as silence is reinforcement of the behavior, so the behaviors grow in frequency and severity."

  2. Toxicity is a minor problem in league. "Reform is critical because less than 1% of players are so persistently negative that they trigger a permanent or 14-day ban, ranked restriction or even a single chat restriction."

  3. This one is about what was not said. At no point did they mention the cause or provocation to toxicity was a factor at all.

Basically Riot's position is that gamers are sometimes negative and toxic for no reason whatsoever and the key to fixing that is manipulating people to be kinder through punishment and/or rewards. The problem is that they fail to see that there is a cause to toxicity!

People are not claiming the community is a problem based on the 1% of games Riot says contain serious toxicity. We all understand you will sometimes get the random jerk that wants to be a jerk just for the sake of being a jerk, but that is the anomaly, not the norm. Toxicity is a problem during games with normal people that are otherwise kind. Negativity is happening in games with people that are not purposely trying to troll, **and Riot is patronizing these players by ignoring the cause of the in game frustration **

Riot needs to stop being condescending to their players. They need to stop acting like the only negativity is the extreme permaban cases. They need to stop denying that there are actual issues that cause players to become toxic during the course of a game. They need to take responsibility for creating an environment that is inherently frustrating.

Here are some of the issues they SHOULD be talking about:

  1. Having options when you get an afk - Sure, punishing afkers is great, but we are currently stuck for at least 20 min in an inherently annoying and frustrating game with no options whatsoever. Dota lets you leave, other games let another player join, league just lets you suffer.

  2. No rules, no consequence - Currently there is nothing that stops me from getting mad at my team and just roaming the jungle all game to spite them. Players become verbally toxic because a member of their team decides to purposely lose the game, and here is the key phrase again,** they have no options to change it. **

  3. Matchmaking doesnt work well - Is there a difference between someone who has played 1000 games and is gold 5 and someone who has played 100 and got lucky to be seated gold? ABSOLUTELY. It is inherently frustrating playing with people that have a disproportionate skill and knowledge. What can you do when you get stuck with someone who doesnt understand the basic tactics of the game? once again, nothing.

  4. Report happy - I rarely play a game where someone isnt reporting someone else. this creates a negative environment usually from the start or upon the first mistake. When there are no other options available, people just throw around reports and threats of reports.

There are many other issues that CAUSE otherwise nice players to become toxic during games. it isnt just because they are a bunch of racist loser gamers that have been allowed to be toxic so they need a spanking. Come on Riot, get real.

First edit:

Riot recently released another article illustrating perfectly their inherent flaw in philosophy. Here is the main idea quoted from the link

"We don’t always share numbers, but because we are only talking about ranked games (meaning all accounts are active in ranked queue and Level 30) we felt these are pretty easy to make sense of without a ton of extra context. Since introducing ranked restrictions, verbal harassment reports in ranked games dropped 18%. After identifying some of the motivations behind ranked play and designing a system that provides meaningful penalties related to those motivations, the percentage of ranked games with moderate negativity fell 28% (from approximately 1 in 8 games to less than 1 in 10), and the percentage of ranked games with high levels of negativity (such as death threats, sexism, racism or homophobia) plummeted 47% to 0.8% of all ranked games."

Let me say this, i absolutely appreciate that they are realizing players need information regarding their behavior. Of course, if i was pessimistic, i might say 5 years is too long to develop a system of communication so players actually know what they did wrong, but i wont do that. This is on the right track.

HOWEVER, this article points exactly to the problem. They clearly are using verbal communication as a yardstick for success. Yes, they created an atmosphere where more people were unwilling to rage at other players because they were afraid of the ranked ban. Does this do anything at all to identify or mitigate the reasons for the rage in the first place? A resounding no.

The issue is still as i proposed. The majority of "toxicity" is not coming from "homophobic tweens" as riot would have you believe. It is happening because the game does nothing to mitigate toxic behavior (as contrasted to toxic speech). If players had options when mid went 0/10/0, they might be inclined not to rage at them. If we could do anything at all when had an afk other than get violated for 20 min, less people might be on tilt and angry.

Riots main concern is still the fruit of the problem rather than the root. Verbal toxicity (for the most part) is a product of larger problems, not the main concern.

Second edit: Since people are accusing me of having unfair expectations of a company making 100's of millions with an entire team devoted to this exact subject, i will give some possible solutions to the problems. Should i be expected to come up with the solutions for people that are paid to? I don't think so. Do i think they should be able to come up with solutions to better their own game? certainly. But here it goes anyway.

  1. AFK - Many options are available but here is my personal favorite. If someone is afk for 5 min, they can be replaced. The champion and items will stay identical, someone else will just be playing in the original players stead. There would be an additional queue to join a game for an afk for an opportunity to win double lp - meaning if you take the place of an afker in a random role and champion, you will get double the lp for winning it (or maybe just have it normal lp for a win and that player wouldnt get any lp loss if they lose). Would this cause some players to beg feeders to afk? Yes, but thats already bannable behavior, and already occurs.

  2. Feeders - Have each case of feeding actually reviewed and if it said person was feeding intentionally (or refusing to take rational steps to not die every 7 sec) then they will incur the total lp loss from the match and the rest of the team will be refunded their lp loss. Once again, this would have to be upon review. But this would make you feel like theres a chance of being redeemed for being screwed by a single teammate. It would also motivate someone who is feeding to keep trying rather than just throwing the game because they know if they feed they might lose 90 lp instead of 15.

  3. Matchmaking - All they have to do is add an additional layer to the system that factors in total games played (or maybe even games played since latest patch) so you arent queued with someone with technically the same MMR, but has only played 38 games and doesn't know there is a dragon buff now.

  4. ANY OTHER TOXICITY - If 4 or more players report you in a match, it should be immediately reviewed and punished. If your entire team says you were refusing to help, you should be punished for refusing to help. a. Another great idea is simply grouping players together that are often reported for similar behavior. You are a feeder? here is other feeders to play with. You often refuse to help your team and let them die? Here are other players that dont like to play as a team. Verbally abusive? here are other verbally abusive people. This would allow people to possibly better see their behavior on the other end and possibly reform. ( this would have to be for a set number of games and for them to get a message reading something like "you have been frequently reported for feeding, you will have to play x number of normal matches with other players of similar reports before returning to full population queue")

These are all ideas that are imperfect solutions off the top of my head but are all infinitely better than nothing. I bet if some of these rioters took some time off from patronizing its playerbase to work on some solutions like this, the game might actually improve.

41 Comments

slippykitten12/9/2014, 5:01:56 PM4 votes

I appreciate those of you who understand. Some don't get it and will simply say "but they have INCREASED bans on verbally toxic players!". This single post that riot made and i replied to marked the beginning of the end for me (unless they change their approach, which is unlikely considering their usual 'i'm right and you're wrong' mentality).

I have only played a few games since writing this and they have all been painful. The first game, i tried to talk to my team (not rage at them) and let them know how they could improve. When i told the support that it was now even more important that dragon is warded, she told me "well you just bought yourself a support that wont ward anything for being a dick", after she got ganked 3 times and died from having zero wards, both the adc and support went afk. The rest of the game i played didnt go much better, but i didnt bother typing anything.

Basically, most games just arent fun anymore. Very seldom is a game an honest, good match, it is usually just 'who has the worse troll'. Unfortunately, i think i'm done, it is just too difficult to enjoy.

BigNasty300012/2/2014, 3:41:10 AM4 votes

Truth! Picking leaves will not kill a tree, destroying the roots will.

It seems as if the meta in lower elos is - taunt my opponent enough until someone on their team afk's or rages.

The jinx who constantly talks to the enemy team, and dies while typing? Not toxic

The leona who say "wtf jinx" - banned.

People spamming ez after every kill? Healthy smack talk

People responding in anger? banned

Top lane clearing entire jungle after typing "lol, idc" when the jung politely asks them not to? perfectly fine

Jungler stops being polite? banned

If you taunt people, you don't get to be hyper-sensitive. These kids would have never acted like this in the old arcade days, when you had to be within punching distance of your opponent.

Archaic Mythos12/2/2014, 3:13:17 AM3 votes

Wow, reading this post verbalizes everything ive been feeling about this game lately..

Sadly were all just toxics and should be banned.

Its okay RIOT, like I said before.. you won't see my money again.

slippykitten12/11/2014, 7:40:21 PM3 votes

Lets also clear the air of this, because this seems to be a common point brought up. Riots statistics are most definitely skewed so they can paint the picture they would like to paint. The post referenced says

** "For about 95% of players, they’ll never see these harsh penalties and don’t drift close to negative behavior except on the rare bad day." **

That should mean i have ONE toxic person in one out of twenty games i play (providing i play with different people every game). I typically duo queue, which should reduce that number even further. Does anyone honestly think that third party websites are writing articles on the toxicity in leagues community because less than 5% of the time they get someone toxic? Can we stop the delusional, deflective statistics that are obviously created to pacify?

You can say "according to riots statistics, there actually aren't any trolls, its all in your head" but we all know that's B.S.

Erratan11/27/2014, 6:57:20 AM2 votes

Numbers 1, 2, and 4 hit directly on the truth of the matter! (number 3 is important too, but an indefensible point) It's been this way for several years now, and I know it's driven me to take long breaks from league in search of something else. Coming back always feels like a mistake because of the players, but it's true that there's nothing that an innocent person, who's done nothing wrong, can do when they encounter this except endure it until the surrender, and "report". Or worse, when there's two issue players and you can't get a surrender to pass. And 90% of the time, the toxic player makes up an excuse to report the person they've been haranguing all game. Now the innocent have to wonder if they're going to get a ban or restriction, and none of the topic board reassurances that I've seen have been in any way reassuring. Time becomes wasted, opportunities for people without a lot free time are lost. The toxicity spreads, as players realize that their very participation is pointless if they run into a player that is causing problems. And since the tribunal is those same toxic players reading and rating the reports, it's disappointing to think about what they've the potential to do.

Max Nobody11/27/2014, 8:50:16 AM2 votes

Hi.

Having options when you get an afk - Sure, punishing afkers is great, but we are currently stuck for at least 20 min in an inherently annoying and frustrating game with no options whatsoever.

You can still win 4v5, the leaver can still reconnect, you should take it as a challenge.

Dota lets you leave

Encourages to surrend easily. There is no more fighting spirit.

other games let another player join

I'd like to see which games does so, and how they manage it when the leaver RC.

Players become verbally toxic because a member of their team decides to purposely lose the game, and here is the key phrase again, they have no options to change it.

One day I had a Jax. The Syndra made a shitty engage and gave their adc a triple kill (Syndra, Jax and Sona-me). So Jax said "f**k you i afk jungle". During a minute he did indeed farm his jungle, even refusing to save his top laner who went just next to him when he was doing his wraith. I just said "Well, ok, I'm not the one getting demoted soon after all. Don't think you can say the same Jax".

Of course, it's an example where I could easily reason him, and sometimes it's harder, but you can almost always talk your way out of it. So yes, players have an option to change it.

Matchmaking doesnt work well - Is there a difference between someone who has played 1000 games and is gold 5 and someone who has played 100 and got lucky to be seated gold? ABSOLUTELY.

... ABSOLUTELY....... Not. Because Matchmaking in ranked (and normals and all modes) doesn't give a s**t about ranking, only ELO, which is totally different of ranking. You can be Gold 5 and be matched with Silver 2 because you have a Silver 2 ELO. Reversely, on my last solo games, I was matched with Silver 2 to Gold 4 players when I'm Silver 3.

It is inherently frustrating playing with people that have a disproportionate skill and knowledge. What can you do when you get stuck with someone who doesnt understand the basic tactics of the game? once again, nothing.

First, yes you can explain him politely, being the smartest one, telling him why Rabadon is better than Mikael on Sona, why you shouldn't chase in their jungle, why warding here is more important than warding there.

And what tells you what YOU know of the game is right? That the one who have less skill and/or knowledge can play in good conditions? That he's not just half asleep?

Report happy - I rarely play a game where someone isnt reporting someone else. this creates a negative environment usually from the start or upon the first mistake. When there are no other options available, people just throw around reports and threats of reports.

Well, I don't know how it is on NA, but I can tell you on EUW we don't use threats of reports often. In fact, during my last 10 games, I've only seen it once or twice.

Dreampod12/11/2014, 2:31:55 AM2 votes

I find angry diatribes like this fascinating because they don't reflect my experience with League at all. I'm pretty calm and friendly with other players and find that I see very little game play trolling and only a moderate amount of unacceptable language. When things start going poorly and players get angry I try to calm the situation and focus on coming back which seems to work. I do see occasional disconnects or players that don't show up until 5 minutes into the game but almost never an intentional afk, in those games I always focus on playing safe and helping that player catch up and I probably still win 25% of the games with a DC that never returns (not the 50% that it ought to be but not too shabby). I see almost no threats of reports as a tactic to bully people though not infrequently I see a request for other players to report someone disruptive in the postgame chat but rarely do they belabour the point prior to the end of the game.

It might be worth considering how your interactions with other players might be altering the dynamic of how they behave and escalating behaviours that could have been avoided if you hadn't put fuel on the fire and your perceptions of what trolling is (playing badly and losing your lane or playing with a different style isn't trolling) because the game you describe playing and the one I play every day sound like two completely different games.

Drunk Rummate12/12/2014, 3:09:12 PM1 votes

2 things here

  1. Yes, there are instances in this game that can bring on anger. That's just how life works. You can't eliminate all potential for anger, there's always going to be something completely out of your control that's capable of setting you off. They key is to look past the things that anger you and focus on the good so that you don't become negative as a result of the negativity around you. On a side note, nobody wants to be friends with a negative person, and isolation breeds more negativity. It's a really sad spiral that you should try to avoid.

  2. I agree with a lot of your points. Improving the afk and griefing situation would be a godsend for this game. The problem is that there's no apparent way to solve the issue. From my soapbox it looks like Riot is trying their best to fix this issue in a non-intrusive way. I agree with their approach because I think a more intrusive system could easily be abused. But there are always going to be dissenters (like yourself) who think that more intrusive method to deal with AFKs is better, and it's obviously not right to completely shove your opinions under the rug.

slippykitten12/19/2014, 9:21:16 PM1 votes

Since people are accusing me of having unfair expectations of a company making 100's of millions with an entire team devoted to this exact subject, i will give some possible solutions to the problems. Should i be expected to come up with the solutions for people that are paid to? I don't think so. Do i think they should be able to come up with solutions to better their own game? certainly. But here it goes anyway.

  1. AFK - Many options are available but here is my personal favorite. If someone is afk for 5 min, they can be replaced. The champion and items will stay identical, someone else will just be playing in the original players stead. There would be an additional queue to join a game for an afk for an opportunity to win double lp - meaning if you take the place of an afker in a random role and champion, you will get double the lp for winning it (or maybe just have it normal lp for a win and that player wouldnt get any lp loss if they lose). Would this cause some players to beg feeders to afk? Yes, but thats already bannable behavior, and already occurs.

  2. Feeders - Have each case of feeding actually reviewed and if it said person was feeding intentionally (or refusing to take rational steps to not die every 7 sec) then they will incur the total lp loss from the match and the rest of the team will be refunded their lp loss. Once again, this would have to be upon review. But this would make you feel like theres a chance of being redeemed for being screwed by a single teammate. It would also motivate someone who is feeding to keep trying rather than just throwing the game because they know if they feed they might lose 90 lp instead of 15.

  3. Matchmaking - All they have to do is add an additional layer to the system that factors in total games played (or maybe even games played since latest patch) so you arent queued with someone with technically the same MMR, but has only played 38 games and doesn't know there is a dragon buff now.

  4. ANY OTHER TOXICITY - If 4 or more players report you in a match, it should be immediately reviewed and punished. If your entire team says you were refusing to help, you should be punished for refusing to help. a. Another great idea is simply grouping players together that are often reported for similar behavior. You are a feeder? here is other feeders to play with. You often refuse to help your team and let them die? Here are other players that dont like to play as a team. Verbally abusive? here are other verbally abusive people. This would allow people to possibly better see their behavior on the other end and possibly reform. ( this would have to be for a set number of games and for them to get a message reading something like "you have been frequently reported for feeding, you will have to play x number of normal matches with other players of similar reports before returning to full population queue")

These are all ideas that are imperfect solutions off the top of my head but are all infinitely better than nothing. I bet if some of these rioters took some time off from patronizing its playerbase to work on some solutions like this, the game might actually improve.

slippykitten12/21/2014, 11:48:17 PM1 votes

I wish i could get a red post here and see their thoughts but apparently they have grown past the point of communicating with their customers.