So people can't get lucky and get carried a couple games and be placed into silver...where they feed every fucking game they play. There is way too much of this shit going on. I do not understand why you don't place new players in Bronze 5.
Kazaashi2 votesIf only the people who spend time investigating other people to pin the blame on them, instead spent that time improving their own play. They would see an interesting rise in their win rate.
Mouura1 votesWhen you enter ranked(new) you start at 1200 mmr i believe. thats like the average for silver. Bronze is probably much lower
FHMarshy1 votesDude, he is at S5 45 LP after the streak of losing. He actually won games after reaching silver lol
Nucleophilic atk1 votesYes, he has won 15 out of 51 games. He got lucky and got carried against teams that had afks lol.
FHMarshy1 voteshttp://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=MadDrEw
Really? I searched up his match history, doesn't seem like he had many wins against AFKs.
TeemoJenkins1 votes[{quoted}](name=Nucleophilic atk,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=GisxJwP7,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-03-30T17:16:47.117+0000)
So people can't get lucky and get carried a couple games and be placed into silver...where they feed every fucking game they play. There is way too much of this shit going on. I do not understand why you don't place new players in Bronze 5.
You did see that he's not new, and in fact has been playing since Season 2?
Matthias91191 votesElo-like rating systems have to start players near the median skill rating unless there is a very good reason to believe otherwise (which Riot does if you have a very high or very low MMR in Normal SR games.)
If you start everyone at 0 or a very low MMR value, there's nowhere for below-average players to go. Or you have an unbalanced system that causes net MMR gains - but then you get horrible ranking inflation over time.
Nucleophilic atk1 votesBelow average players would stay there. It is complete bullshit that these players get carried in a couple of their provisional games and get put into silver, where they feed 98% of their games.
Matthias91192 votesI don't think you're thinking through the math on a system like that.
If everyone starts at zero rating, then the only way for anyone to climb is for Riot to manufacture rating points out of thin air when two zero-rating players go up against each other. And whenever someone at zero rating loses against someone NOT at zero rating, there's nowhere for the losing player to go. They have to stay at zero while the other player gains rating.
These effects cause "inflation" of ratings over time. If a fixed pool of players keeps playing against each other, the average rating keeps going up as more games are played. (This is the same reason you can't have "loss prevention" for AFKs unless the winners also get "win prevention".) This causes several problems, but a notable one is that it significantly favors players who play more matches, since they capture more of the inflated ratings.
Nucleophilic atk1 votesI don't think bronze 5's MMR is 0. Also, they could do it like promos where you have a higher MMR than your rank, so you could climb faster if needed. Allow these type of players to be placed into silver is just dumb, as even silver players destroy them. It also would get away from you getting an unranked player in your promotion games.
Matthias91191 votesIf you start people at, like, 500MMR you have the same problem, just less extremely. Players who are below median skill will drop from where they start, because they'll be matched with other random players who are on average better than them. That's how Elo-like rating systems work.
Wherever you start everyone:
You can't start people "at the bottom" with this type of rating system; you'll just shift the bottom further down.
Nucleophilic atk1 votesBut just because you start there, doesn't mean that is the average. I think the same players would still be in their tier now. Bronze 5 players would stay, bronze 4 players would move up to bronze 4...and so on. I am high silver/low gold elo from last season. So you could say I'm about average at the game. I don't think if I were placed into bronze 5, I would stay there since it is the new average.
Matthias91191 votesMaybe an example would help.
Let's say you hard reset everyone's rating to 1200. Consider three players: player A is horrible and loses like crazy. Player B is average and wins about 50%. Player C is a pro and wins like crazy. After they each play 100 matches, they might have records and MMRs like this:
Player A: 20/80, 400 MMR (B5) Player B: 50/50, 1200 MMR (S4) Player C: 80/20, 2000 MMR (G1)
If you start everyone at "500", it'll look more like this:
Player A: 20/80, 0 MMR (B5) Player B: 50/50, 500 MMR (B5) Player C: 80/20, 1300 MMR (S3?)
You can't climb significantly in MMR unless you can win >50% of your matches. The players who are currently in mid-Silver will stay around whatever rank you start them in, because by definition they're average players.
Nucleophilic atk1 votesI understand what you are trying to say. I don't think it will happen like that, though. The person that wins an average of 50% of the time in Silver 4, wouldn't win 50% of the time in Bronze 5. that is where I am struggling to see your logic on the idea.
Matthias91191 votesYou're not wrong. But you're thinking about what would happen if you took one Silver player and dropped them into the current B5. If EVERYONE was in "B5", that Silver player would only win 50% of the time. Not all the new players entering Ranked are bad -- shockingly, many of them are pretty average in skill, and some are above average.
For one player to gain ranking, another has to lose it. So either the below-average players would have to go even lower than "B5" (and then the average players would stay around there, since the ones who are worse than them already dropped!) or you'd have to create some artificial "floor" that the really bad players can't fall past (and if you do that you cause those "inflation" effects that screw up the ladder over time.)
Nucleophilic atk1 votesEVERYONE wouldn't be in Bronze 5. New to ranked players (and those who stick around) would be Bronze 5. I'm not saying start the ranking system over and throw everyone in Bronze 5. I'm simply suggesting changing it to where new players don't get carried in a couple of their provisional games, get placed in silver for some reason, and then feed the fuck out of every single game. It causes a very stressful environment. Same with being in my promo matches and getting an unranked player on my team that fucks over my series.
But again, I'm not saying take everyone right now and throw them into Bronze 5.
Matthias91191 votesYou can't do it like that, it would be blatantly unfair to the new players. You'd at least have to wait until a season reset.
And even if you did, not all the new players are bad. It would not be so easy for an "average" player to climb if they were up against a wide mix of players.
Nucleophilic atk1 votesIt isn't fair to old players that tier 1/2 runes got their price heavily reduced. It isn't fair to a person in their promos to silver 1 that gets an unranked 1/9/2 player in their game. Rito don't care about fair. If they did, 
wouldn't exist lol.
No, not all new players are bad. I will say, however, that I have yet to see a new player that actually belongs in silver....
bad arcade kitty1 votesYou can't climb significantly in MMR unless you can win >50% of your matches.
it's only if you assume that you win and lose equal amount of lp on average which is often not the case
Matthias91191 votesMMR != LP. You'll gain MMR if you win >50% of your matches. LP gains depend in your MMR relative to the division you're in.
bad arcade kitty1 votesMMR != LP. You'll gain MMR if you win >50% of your matches.
no you grossly misunderstand how it works, if for some reason you always play vs stronger teams (unlucky or rather you play in a some weird premade) you can raise in mmr losing more than 50% games because you earn more mmr points for a win than lose for a loss (that number isn't fixed and depends on the team strength, old elo system showed it more clear)
Matthias91191 votesI understand how it works.
If it makes you feel better, I'll qualify my statement. You'll almost always gain MMR winning >50% of your matches and lose it winning <50%. If you're very close to 50%, yes, you could manage to violate that if you got a series of bad mismatches. But that's just not going to happen over a significant number of games.
phirestarter1 votesA large percentage of toxicity comes from petulant little brats complaining about the ADC not carrying, which tells me that they are used to being carried by some super fed ADC and if they aren't they don't think to themselves that they are doing something wrong, but instead that the ADC is doing something wrong.
Also we need to stop this sham tier system, and just show us our ranking.
bad arcade kitty1 votesimo high bronze, silver and low gold almost don't differ also some of b5 players who i met were very good too, they probably trolled a lot or something to get there