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Dynamic Ranked & new champ select: What’s wrong, and what’s next

RiotRiot NaKyle··114 votes·131,260 views

UPDATE 1/22 PST Evening:

Hey everyone,

Based on learnings from yesterday’s failed test in Vietnam, we’ve been improving our internal load test. This will allow us to better vet fixes before shipping them to live. We plan on internally testing the queue over the next two days, which unfortunately means you shouldn’t expect Dynamic Ranked or new champ select in Normal Draft this weekend. If tests perform well, we will look to roll out to one affected region (to be decided) on Monday. If that is stable and successful, we will roll out to all affected regions until service is fully restored.

ORIGINAL POST PST 1/21 EVENING:

Hey everyone,

We wanted to share an update on new champ select and Dynamic Ranked ahead of the weekend. We understand it’s been a frustrating week, and are committed to getting Dynamic Ranked and new champ select up and running again.

#What’s Wrong:

New champ select and Dynamic Ranked runs on a brand new backend that performed well (after initial hiccups) during live tests in North America and Turkey. However, when we rolled it out live at the beginning of the 2016 Ranked Season, the high volume of games played knocked the new service down in some regions.

#What's Next:

We haven’t pinpointed a solution yet, but once we have a fix we’re confident in, we’ll be extremely deliberate in rolling new champ select and Dynamic Ranked back out to the game. The last thing we want is to return the feature to you, only for it to need to come down again. When we do have a fix, we’ll start in one region, and if successful, roll out to other affected regions.

#FAQ:

Q: Do my ranked games count? A: The placement games played in Dynamic Ranked and/or Solo/Duo queue do count and will transfer when Dynamic Ranked returns

Q: What about Party Rewards? A: Party Rewards Weekends will be extended to compensate for Dynamic Ranked and new champ select’s downtime

We’ll continuously update this post as long as new champ select and Dynamic Queue remain down. Thank you for your patience.

657 Comments

Qurid301 votes

How about re-enabling Teambuilder while Dynamic ranked is down?

0dd10uT30 votes

{quoted}

How about re-enabling Teambuilder while Dynamic ranked is down?

how about bring back teambuilder permanently the new draft mode doesnt let you 100% of the time get your role and doesnt let you get the champ you want plus i get people who complain when i go something off meta teambuilder i could wait till i had a team who didnt care what i played

CrocForWin46 votes

i would love teambuilder back.. remove the damn blind pick tho.. only trolls and instalockers play that... this new team builder is awesome tho for normal draft/ranked draft.. ill never be forced to play sup again YAY!.. but i lack old teambuilder badly if i wanna learn a new champ in my main lane.. only real way to practice that is doing customs vs bots.. yay how exciting.. sarcasm may have been used in last statement and viewer discretion is adviced

TigerScream26 votes

I would very much be in favor of removing blind pick and replacing it with Teambuilder. I can't think of anything that blind pick does that teambuilder doesn't do better, other than being a bit faster.

Kranter49 votes

Seriously Riot, just bring back Team Builder already. It was fine for what it was. I never understood why you would replace a normal-based game mode with a ranked-based game mode in the first place.

NerdBird69 votes

{quoted}

How about re-enabling Teambuilder while Dynamic ranked is down?

This. 100% this. Blind mode is just horrible and draft is frusterating beyond belief. Even if its just normal games, at least people are getting the role they want and not raging/trolling because "i wanted mid!!!"

Stormfather12 votes

I've mentioned something similar to this situation on a different post a while back, but once again, people are asking Riot for something completely reasonable, even to the point where we're just asking for an explanation, and Riot pointedly ignores us.

Edit: They've even responded to some posts below this one, meaning they'd have had to scroll past this in order to get to those. But hey, let's ignore the people asking for Teambuilder back, who cares if we have to deal with the atrocities that the other queues are by comparison.

Awkward Couch6 votes

{quoted}

I've mentioned something similar to this situation on a different post a while back, but once again, people are asking Riot for something completely reasonable, even to the point where we're just asking for an explanation, and Riot pointedly ignores us.

Edit: They've even responded to some posts below this one, meaning they'd have had to scroll past this in order to get to those. But hey, let's ignore the people asking for Teambuilder back, who cares if we have to deal with the atrocities that the other queues are by comparison.

While personally I would like to have teambuilder back, I would like to point out a couple of things. The new champ select is supposed to be a replacement for teambuilder. I put it here in case you are interested in reading. To be clear, I don't like their reasoning, but it's what you got.

I'd also like to address the edit you put in. Riot NaKyle is a writer, he doesn't have anything to do with the state of teambuilder or the new champ select. He is actually next to the engineers working on the problems and giving us updates when he can. He isn't required to do this. If you want to be pissed of at a Riot employee, go bug Meddler.

Stormfather17 votes

You're right, new champ select IS supposed to be a replacement for teambuilder. But we don't have new champ select right now, do we? So in the meantime, there's no reason for them not to bring back teambuilder. As long as they didn't completely delete the code for it, it should be as simple as just turning it on. As for being angry at Riot, I'm not angry at any specific employee. If that guy's a writer, then fine, I don't expect him to know the answer. However, I DO expect him to realize the validity of the question, and either let someone else know that they need to answer it, or find out the answer for himself (maybe by asking one of those engineers he's supposedly sitting next to) and then tell us. Leaving us in the dark is just about the worst thing Riot could do.

Libermann12 votes

You are correct in your citation. I won't deny it. My issue is that it doesn't replace Teambuilder. You can replace an apple with an orange, that's perfectly fine. Riot did "replace" something after all. But to say that the orange is an apple? Anyone who would tell you anything along those lines would be called insane, right?

Teambuilder is no Dynamic Queue, and vice versa. In Teambuilder you got to select your champ and role, and got it, 100% guarantee. Dynamic is the complete opposite. You have a chance to get the role you want, and then, ignoring bans, you might get the champion you want if the enemy team doesn't.

Dynamic Queue looks like it was made for a ranked, more competitive environment. That's not a bad thing. The problem is that it fucks over Riots entire casual player base. Teambuilder was an utter godsend to the casual community, especially if you had to deal with the hellish nightmare that was and is blind pick before Teambuilders release. Everyone got what they wanted, and everyone was happy. This is simply not the case with the new queue in Normals. I can't understand why Riot is so adamant in keeping Teambuilder dead. I don't know of many people, if any at all, that honestly wanted Teambuilder gone. The biggest con to the system was finding a support or jungler, and the associated wait times. And while I don't know everyones opinion on the matter, if waiting ~10 minutes allowed me to play Atk Spd Jungle Soraka, I was fine with it. Any other queue would've made that impossible otherwise.

VenIM20 votes

Agreed, Also even Dynamic Q lacks some of Teambuilders best aspects.

MMR deflation when trying new champions is one of the best features of teambuilder.

It really made me feel like i could actually learn a new champion without punishing others

Kronenberg Party8 votes

seriously. having to play blind pick again brings back all the reasons why i hated playing league a while back. i played a game last night against a team that had Graves and Sona top and Orianna Rammus and Lucian bot. on top of that we had an insta lock DrMundo mid on our team. its infuriating not being able to kick troll picks and idiots. RIP team builder

nibzaH35 votes

This is so dumb. Riot does this with every release. 'HERE'S A HUGE RELEASE! WE'VE TESTED IT, AND THOUGHT IT OUT, AND--shit, we need to disable it for a few days.' except this time it's bigger. You revamped the entire game, and then disabled it for over a week. Why? Because of a problem that honestly probably didn't even impact anyone in any serious way save for a game crash or two, which, let's be honest, doesn't matter, considering that I've gotten more time bans because of bugsplats than I have freckles on my ass. Your game is unstable. Your servers are bum. Your balance is akin to a drunk twelve-year-old girl's trying to piss in a urinal, and Graves can't have his cigar. In the most recent All Chat, you didn't censor the very first 'FUCK' in the entire episode, so I hear it in all its glory with a hastily thrown in BEEP getting drowned out in the background. You don't plan things out. Admit it. You've gone past commercialization to straight McDonald's status. Rant aside, I do enjoy your game. A lot. It hurts me to see you consistently fumbling over your own shoelaces. I've been a fan for years. However, it's been a week now, and you haven't figured out a coding solution. This is like the Zilean patch that crashed the servers a few years back and left them down for two weeks. You didn't plan this out very well, and you know it. You don't plan releases out very well anymore. Why? Because you've commercialized. You're more focused on cranking out a new product than cranking out a GOOD product.

Rant over. Unpopular opinion presented. Raise pitchforks. [slayer-jinx-catface]

Qwerkout34 votes

Hello,

Can you confirm whether or not the Duo Penalty is in place with the current Ranked Queue that is available?

Thanks

Edit - Why is this being down-voted? Is this not a perfectly valid question?

Hackulator17 votes

This is not an update. Literally all you have said is that it's broken, which we already knew. What's the ETA? This is ridiculous, it's been almost 2 days and you can't even give us an estimate of how long you're going to be working on it?

Also the fact that someone whose tag is "Writer" is the one making this post instead of someone who actually works on the problem is proof you're just trying to string us a long with PR as opposed to offer any real informations.

RiotRiot NaKyle82 votes

{quoted}

This is not an update. Literally all you have said is that it's broken, which we already knew. What's the ETA? This is ridiculous, it's been almost 2 days and you can't even give us an estimate of how long you're going to be working on it?

Also the fact that someone whose tag is "Writer" is the one making this post instead of someone who actually works on the problem is proof you're just trying to string us a long with PR as opposed to offer any real informations.

Hey,

This is actually something I worry about a lot when I make any post. I don't ever want to come across as Mr. PR, so today, I'm posting because the engineers and other people who can solve this problem are focused solely on that. I'm sitting right with them, trying to provide a link to you with the latest info I can get. Hope that helps some.

WMG26 votes

I for one appreciate the effort.

The bottom line is even if you gave me a more detailed explanation of what went wrong, I would just be more confused. That you are working on it is plenty

Thanks!

The Hubster16 votes

I completely understand that you guys are working hard to fix it, but this is honestly unacceptable. The product is phenomenal, it really is. The planning was very poor though. I don't really understand how a multi-billion dollar company would roll out something like this, then take it down with the reason "due to a high volume of games". Okay wait, so you're telling me that the new dynamic queue wasn't ready for a high volume of players, but you released it anyway? Or did you expect a very small number of players? I don't get how you guys messed this up. On top of this, you've been very secretive until today about what the problem was. Why not tell us in the client instead of making us search these obscure forums for the reason?

I don't understand why you expect us to go back to the old queue system after teasing us with something that is a million times better. Why would I play ranked on the old system and have to beg to get the role I want? Or have to deal with trolls crying because they didn't get the roll they wanted, so they auto lock teemo jungle and go 0/30. I don't think you fully understand how frustrated we are with you.

Here's my suggestion to you as a company, and as a reasonable person. Do not release a product that has not been tested. We were in the off season for about 2 months. Why not let us test it then? If your plan was to roll it out at the start of Season 6, you should've had all the kinks out already. I know it went into testing on the PBE, but honestly Riot, you almost never listen to PBE players. There are so few of them because you're so greedy with your PBE accounts. If you let people who were WILLING to test stuff out actually get a PBE account and kept in touch with them in some way, you wouldn't have to go through this crap non-stop. It's a never ending cycle with you guys. You release a new product, then take it off immediately due to bugs. Then we have to wait.

Now let me be logical for a moment. Of course, it's a free to play game, and of course, it's amazing. The game is in the best state it's EVER been in. So on this front, I have no reason to complain. But if you're going to release a new product, test it! I'm absolutely baffled that your "brand new backend" wasn't ready for a "high volume of players". I love you guys, but please, don't let this happen again. Please. I'm telling you this as a person who has spent over a thousand dollars on your game, and I use it as my escape from real life.

Elhysia13 votes

Not sure if this will end up being particularly helpful, but I figured I'd give it a shot anyway. I've seen a few posts reflecting your sentiment over the past few days, so heres my response to a handful of your points.

Here's my suggestion to you as a company, and as a reasonable person. Do not release a product that has not been tested.

We know this system was tested, and tested rather extensively. For the most part operation during the player behavior 'test' (for lack of a better term) in NA and TR was smooth. Matchmaking was tweaked at the beginning to address player concerns and then it seemed to be smooth sailing. So we know at this point there were no major bugs with the system. Load testing was handled internally prior to any of the launches and the system was believed to be stable. More info from Riot TMX here.

We were in the off season for about 2 months. Why not let us test it then?

First off, it's not testing if it's done on a live server. That's just deployment. All testing is and should be taken care of before new code is introduced to the live environment. As far as deploying the change for players to experience before the new season, schedules don't always line up. I'd say that because Riot had mentioned running the newer matchmaking system on all servers before the season start this was absolutely their intent. That doesn't mean that internal testing and updates had brought the product to a live-ready state in time to deploy it live during the preseason. Maybe if they'd deployed it sooner they would have noticed the scalability problem sooner, unfortunately we can't know this and it would be irrelevant now anyway.

I completely understand that you guys are working hard to fix it, but this is honestly unacceptable.

Seen a lot of people expressing this opinion, maybe my response is a bit off topic for the purposes of this comment. Oh well.

Clearly this is neither what Riot intended to happen, nor is it what they expected to happen. I don't mean to be a jerk, but they definitely already know this isn't an 'acceptable' situation. Either for you, me or anybody in the company. Unfortunately it's the situation they're in, and they're working to resolve that regardless of how unacceptable it is. There is no better alternative here than exactly what they're doing.

Hope this contributes something, let me know if there's anything I should clarify!

Swerzz14 votes

Thanks for giving us an update. Was really hoping to start the rank grind with the new que on the weekend, but i'd rather the new Que be fixed properly then be rushed and brake again in a week. I know this is a major issue, and will take time, but i was just wondering if you have an ETA on the new Que being up again? A day, A few days, A week?

Wobly14 votes

I think the biggest problem for players here is that you haven't really given us any expectations. If we had any sense of how long to expect this to take, it'd be much easier to be patient.

Keeping that in mind, would you be willing to finish this totally hypothetical, non-binding sentence?

"We expect bringing new champ select back to be a matter of ____."

  1. Days
  2. Weeks
  3. Months
  4. Days or Weeks
  5. Weeks or Months
  6. Any of these are equally likely

Anything you can give us at all with regards to what we should expect, even if its bad news, would be better than leaving us in the dark.

18 cowboys9 votes

The post says they haven't even found out exactly what the problem is yet, so they don't even know how long it will take to fix a problem that they don't know about. Or even just how many problems there are. Kind of hard to give an ETA when you have absolutely no idea about yourself.

Lexicon12 votes

So I couldn't help notice this was essentially the same post as what was posted over on EUW boards 18 hours ago. Have we gotten no closer to a solution?

RiotRiot NaKyle38 votes

{quoted}

So I couldn't help notice this was essentially the same post as what was posted over on EUW boards 18 hours ago. Have we gotten no closer to a solution?

Heya,

After making improvements to how new champ select and Dyanmic Ranked handles high volumes of games, we attempted a fix last night in Vietnam (1/21 PST). The queue showed some improvement, but ended up failing again The team's been digging into those test results since late last night, learning from them and applying them to our next test. That's the absolute latest.

Saethlin22 votes

This is exactly the kind of stuff I think we'd all love to hear about. It would be really nice to have a little addition to the client alert that says something like: "Attempted a fix last night (1/21 PST) in Vietnam. Some improvement, but it also failed. The team is currently digging through the test results."

Emperor Antares11 votes

downvote this people!!!

Gaming Yoda13 votes

We will downvote you.

Arcade Andrew7 votes

You are part of his master plan

Drehirth6 votes

lol it's a trap. He really means to downvote his own reply and everybody is doing what he wanted all along

Damian0Killard11 votes

First off I want to say I like the new draft mode, it is better than the previews to draft modes, ranked and normals, and thank you for working hard to find a solution.

We do need team builder back or something like it, not because you were guaranteed the champ you selected, but because it was a que that allowed the player to leave the lobby. If I saw someone trolling, or even just someone playing a champ I don't like to play with, I could just join a new lobby. Their needs to be a que in league that lets us leave the lobby if we recognize someone toxic, or trolling.

pigflic10 votes

That is LITERALLY the same Text that was posted as a comment on the Last Update Thread by Riot TMX 7 hours ago, isnt it?!???

[{quoted}](name=Riot tmx,realm=EUW,application-id=slFBEUB8,discussion-id=10wde8H7,comment-id=0073,timestamp=2016-01-22T13:52:36.017+0000)

22.01 update:

Hey everyone, just wanted to keep you updated on what's happening on our end.

Our engineers are still working on getting the Dynamic Ranked system fixed so it can be re-enabled for everyone. We haven’t pinpointed a solution yet, but we have identified some back-end systems that need adjustments in order to properly handle the high volume of games. Once we have a fix we’re confident in, we’ll be rolling the new champ select and Dynamic Ranked back out to the game ASAP. We’ll start in one region, and if successful, roll out to other affected regions. The last thing we want is to return the feature to you, only for it to need to come down again.

Q: What about Party Rewards? A: We'll be extending the Party Rewards Week to account for Dynamic Ranked and new champ select’s downtime.

We’ll continuously update this post, with another update coming within 24 hours, and another on Monday if service isn’t restored. Thank you again for being so patient!

Hackulator4 votes

{quoted}

That is LITERALLY the same Text that was posted as a comment on the Last Update Thread by Riot TMX 7 hours ago, isnt it?!???

LOL Riot is literally spitting in our faces.

Jorencice18 votes

{quoted}

LOL Riot is literally spitting in our faces.

Yes HOW DARE they listen to the community and give feedback.

It's a wonder they even try with this ungrateful community.

If they had stayed quite they would get cruxified.

If they explained the situation the get cruxified.

Sigh...

EagleEye0078 votes

Seems like the sorta post that should be stickied, right? So players might actually see it?

RiotSlumber Jack25 votes

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Effly8 votes

Okay well, I'll be looking forward to when dynamic or team builder come back. In the meantime I think I'll be taking a break from league.

Evongelo7 votes

Thanks for finally fixing the problems with champ select and cutting down on toxicity. The new Dynamic Que is wonderful, and I really couldn't think of a better system. I hope it is back up soon. I would appreciate if Rito took more time to update us more often. I'm understanding of technical issues but it is frustrating, and it's more frustrating when hours go by with no new updates and no idea of when it will be fixed. I hope Rito fixes this issue soon. It was a great addition to the game and I hate waiting to play more placement matches.

Storm626 votes

Bring back teambuilder, people go there to play just for fun and generally don't stress if you're learning a new role/champion.

LegitJJ6 votes

Can you please bring back ranked 5s while we wait?

Metym6 votes

Not playing ranked til its back up. dont want to deal with the trolls...i will also be playing less, maybe even not at all until its fixed.summoner 3

Archadria6 votes

Thank you for taking it down to see whatever was wrong with it fixed, I am a little anxious for it to come back I personally thought it was the best queue made so far, because I main support but play all lanes. Trying to get to a fixed 15 champion rotation by playing out bad games and learning. I appreciate the time it takes to fix something, this is not a freaking mechanic shop where the parts are in stock already. Coding is serious work and when you have teams of developers you can find more inconsistencies leading to bug's and errors than if you put 10 mechanics on a 2012 ford/chevy/ram ect ect. Take your time get the bugs out. P.S. If you would be so kind to please pass on some information; we could use an MMR temp-drop for trying new champions in some queue, don't know where it should go, maybe blind picks. This would be helpful for the newer players, because league is about fun, competition, and making money. If anyone does not agree with that "fact" they should stop playing! ~Archadria

triple nip5 votes

I honestly don't think that teambuilder is the key. I honestly enjoyed the new champ selection setup and hope it comes back to us soon, because the old school draft picking system is just not the way out, nor does it provide as much team help, when players lack ability in certain roles. That's why riot enabled you to choose primary and secondary choices, and I want that back as soon as possible, as well as many other players. Dealing with a team where there are players in uncomfortable positions is a huge damper on game play and ability to fight and play as a successful team.

VenIM7 votes

The problem is that there are a lot of things teambuilder had that AREN'T in the new dynamic Queue system.

Skipping troll teams.

MMR adjustment for champions you haven't played yet. (should my mmr for playing 1000 games on azir put me against the same level of opponents as the first game i ever play on vayne?)

xMariusx5 votes

Update on the EUW boards. http://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/announcements-en/10wde8H7-20012016-euw-dynamic-queue-system-disabled-further-details?comment=00aa

TL;DR: EUNE is up, they will be monitoring there today to see how it works out. If everything goes like planned, other regions will get dynamic que back early tuesday.

ahferroin75 votes

Other thoughts on how Dynamic Queue has issues:

  1. There is no way to ensure a duo lane with a friend. There really wasn't a way to do so before outside of team builder, but for the purpose of teaching someone (which is why I would most often do this), that was a good thing.
  2. There is no way to consistently practice a given champ in a given role (you want people to get better, well that takes practice, and you need to be able to practice against real people once you get past a certain point) without a full five person pre-made team.
  3. There are numerous people who were selecting Fill as a role just so they could get faster queue times, and then refusing to go in the role they were assigned (not trying to switch with their teammates, but doing the whole 'X or feed' routine, sometimes without even saying anything before the game starts).
xKAiiRUx5 votes

My question is this: Instead of ignoring all the cries for Team Builder, why not give a decent reason as to why you're removing it?

The main argument was "FASTER QUEUE!" that has been proven wrong by everyone who has tried this new queue. roughly 80% of the players I have encountered (almost every match) have said they want Team Builder back. It was a great system and all I see are posts about it being ignored and I KNOW Riot is reading them. The second argument I'm constantly seeing is "Learn to play more than 1 role!" yeah, everyone knows how to play more than 1 role. But if someone wants to play mid, and they select it as their primary role, they should not be handed their secondary role for 10+ games in a row. At least give the option to only select ONE role in exchange for even longer queue, it wouldn't hurt anyone and it would satisfy everyone who wants team builder back. Just one small edit and the community will be happy.

I know this comment will just be ignored OR downvoted to oblivion but meh, I just needed to vent. item 3070

ThugGenesis4 votes

Look, Dynamic is awesome, and works great for ranked. But when I want to sit down and play bot lane with my brother, I have to go though 3 different games before I can get there. Then, the salty players who did not get their roles just troll. I believe, for fun playing, team builder works 100% better, and should be re-enabled, but we should not get ride of Dynamic for the sake of Team builder.

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

ThugGenesis

Stormfather4 votes

I think I've been pretty vocal on a couple threads about wanting more information and updates on what's going on. This most recent update is EXACTLY what I (and I think it's safe to say, many others) wanted. I've been pretty critical about Riot not giving out that kind of update, and I'm a little bit irritated that it took them so long to do so, BUT, for the most part, I just wanted to say that I'm grateful. I do appreciate the fact that we now know more about what's going on and what to expect and not expect. Even if Riot had just said, "don't expect it this weekend," I would have been overjoyed that they said something at all. The level of information we DID get was excellent, and I just wanted to post this to say thank you to Riot. I'm not entirely sure how the thread system works here, but if upvoting can make this more visible to Riot, then I would appreciate it if anyone reading this who also appreciates it would upvote it so Riot knows they did something that was sorely needed and that it wasn't a thankless effort.

Hood Høkage4 votes

Bring back team builder as an option not a fan of this dynamic queue. Multiple times where someone go their secondary and refused to play it and went the role they wanted instead. Team builder was a much better system. Most of the time I don't want to do the whole draft process and blind pick is **** so I have no other option. I'm not saying get rid of dynamic queue but just bring team builder back.

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