Sorry Moobeat: Surrender at 15 testing in OCE

RiotRiot NaKyle·Feb 22, 2017·130 votes·12,119 views

It feels bad to be stuck in a dumpster fire of a game for 20 minutes, so we’re trying out a fix for that. We’re testing a unanimous 15-minute surrender option on the OCE server in all non-RGM, Summoner’s Rift queues.

There are no other changes to the surrender system, and it’s worth noting this is a surrender, not a /remake. Pending a couple patches worth of evaluation down under, we’ll roll the feature out to all regions. Let's taco 'bout it if you've got questions.

204 Comments

MoobeatFeb 22, 2017226 votes

i quit

KoriosFeb 22, 20173 votes

will you change the site to Surrender at 15? XD just curious

Sahn UzalFeb 22, 201727 votes

Surrender@20OrAt15IfEveryoneAgrees.

Sounds fine to me :^)

Votable JesterFeb 22, 201714 votes

Only issue is the first part almost looks like "Surrender@200"

DeathBot666Feb 23, 20176 votes

A game that long would have to be from neither team ever grouping, pushing objectives, or just constantly wasting advantages.

Sounds like my promo's.

Spacesuit SpiffFeb 23, 20173 votes

When both teams have infinite stackers conspiring to keep the game going forever

junglerboy16Feb 23, 201713 votes

Beginning of blind pick game

Nasus looking at Nasus : holy crap... Veigar glaring at Veigar : is it just me or... Sion pondering Sion : this is really happening... Thresh Thresh cackling to themselves: I don't know about you guys but... Kindred Kindred in unison: FARMVILLE BITCHES!!!

Illâoi Evê SiônFeb 23, 20172 votes

I really wanna try out this team comp now. Nasus Top, Veigar Mid, Sion ~~ADC~~ Bot (this is somehow a thing), Thresh Supp, Kindred Jungle.

AhristocatsFeb 22, 2017116 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot NaKyle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4gbdIUE3,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-02-22T19:44:07.416+0000)

It feels bad to be stuck in a dumpster fire of a game for 20 minutes, so we'e trying out a fix for that.

By giving us a chance to comeback? !!!

[{quoted}](name=Riot NaKyle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4gbdIUE3,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-02-22T19:44:07.416+0000) surrender at 15 min

http://media.lolusercontent.com/api/embedly/1/image/resize?url=http%3A%2F%2Fimgur.com%2FwhYfFDU.gif&key=a45e967db0914c7fb472fd4381e6c85b&width=425

SlythionFeb 22, 201741 votes

honestly, a few seasons ago when "turtling" was possible and you could wait it out I had the "only surrender in extreme circumstances because our team comp is better in the late game" mentality

now...nah, turtling is hardly possible

that's the real issue, not the surrender timer :(

(basically, I agree with you)

FakeGravityFeb 22, 201719 votes

turrets are just made out of paper late game making them so hard to protect when behind that isnt even funny

KesslerCOILFeb 23, 20176 votes

Made of paper AND do hardly any damage. If turrets hit a little harder and had a little more tank stats then we likely wouldnt feel the need to surrender sooner except in extreme circumstances.

WoodakoodashoodaFeb 22, 201750 votes

This just seems like putting a band aid on a snake bite. Just seal the toxicity of the damage creep snowball meta into that wound and say 'It's okay, you can just put a bullet in your brain instead of relying on us to concoct the cure to the disease we caused.'

SlythionFeb 22, 201711 votes

While I agree with you that lowering surrender times is just a cover up, it's important to remember that Riot has started fighting the damage creep. Patch 7.4 is pretty much purely anti-damage creep, so it's not like Riot has done nothing

101100111000Feb 22, 20173 votes

But this is after they implemented a large number of way more influential changes that much more greatly counter and punish "turtling" (a.k.a. Baron/Dragon Changes, Red buff/Sorcery Elixir to a lesser extent, removal of inner turret shields).

These damage nerfs, which are primarily aimed at champions specifically, don't actually address the anti-defensive changes they implemented to the game as a whole. Baron and the "Offensive" Dragon buffs will still be the same super-oppressive base smashers they always are.

SlythionFeb 22, 20174 votes

Indeed, but one statement from the patch notes:

In actuality, this is just the latest in a multi-patch campaign

gives me faith that they will continue with damage nerfs and aim to lengthen games in future patches, only time will tell though

ModAcademy KaynFeb 23, 20172 votes

"What you going to do if I shoot my foot, rub Aloe Vera on my neck!?!"

GigglesOFeb 22, 201733 votes

Or we could fix the game.

MaeDoSanFeb 22, 201725 votes

Please make LoL less snowbally Give the children hope not a 15 min surr button Unless they are master / challenger

dominusxFeb 22, 201713 votes

Make it 10minutes and it will be aight.

HellioningFeb 22, 201713 votes

Wouldn't this just encourage people to give up earlier? If 4 people agree to a surrender at 15, they're just gonna surrender at 20. Why should the fifth person, or anyone for that matter, even try for those five minutes?

CanastusFeb 22, 201713 votes

This entire game is a dumpsterfire in its current state and instead of addressing the sources of this toxicity you simply try to shorten the overall game length even more. There's ZERO fun left in playing League of Legends, when will you realize that? You should work your ass off to remedy this situation asap if you still value your playerbase in the slightest.

DolasaurFeb 23, 20173 votes

There's ZERO fun left in playing League of Legends,

Impressive that they get tens of millions of people to spend their free time having zero fun every day. It must be the subliminal messaging technology they invested in. Or maybe they're colluding with various national governments to put mind control bacteria in the water supply.

3TWarriorFeb 23, 20172 votes

not really...it's just that league has a HUGE playerbase and a well designed interface, not to mention that there are few better free to play games out there

go to dota, cry, go to heroes of the storm, it has no middle ground for anything

go to smite...yeah, never even got to play that one

go to first person shooters, realize that league players aren't that bad

go to RTS games...and they're often underfunded or just impractical for fun unless you play them solo

midnight oil24Feb 22, 201712 votes

Please don't do this. I know it's no fun to be in a bad game, but too many teammates give up quickly. I've had people hit the surrender button right as it hit 20, and if we didn't comply they'd leave. Please don't give them more leeway.

getrektnoobsGGFeb 22, 20175 votes

it's only working if all 5 players are pressing yes from what i've read, until min 20 where the normal ff gets active again.

TormentulaFeb 22, 201713 votes

If 2 people say no at 20 they just open mid.

Now they'll just do this 5 minutes sooner. Which is 5 less minutes for a mid game come back or teamfight.

getrektnoobsGGFeb 22, 20176 votes

and why even bother waiting for the vote?

when someone wants to open/leave i see no point why they should wait for the vote.

so it's not changing anything apart from giving an earlier possibility to surrender the game.

TormentulaFeb 22, 20179 votes

Cause its the league community, there is no logic, if they know their teammates are sticking them there and they're tilted they'll just run it down mid. Waiting for the /ff is the "less reportable option".

Its like asking "why wait for somebody to fuck up to be toxic when you can just be toxic"

WeepinShadesFeb 22, 20172 votes

This is a terrible argument and always has been.

These people are going to troll and act like children regardless. By your logic we should remove surrendering entirely.

Thankfully riot is finally listening to reason on this. A team should be able to surrender whenever they want as long as they all want to. If you don't want to surrender, no one is forcing you to. I don't know what is so hard to understand about this. Far too many people pretending like this is some sort of morality debate.

HeeroTXFeb 22, 20178 votes

Frankly, Riot SHOULD remove surrender in Ranked, period. If you're playing ranked you should commit to playing that game as long as it takes and to win, or go play normals! I had people calling for surrenders last night while I was in my promos. After the second one I told them, I'm not surrendering this game. For promos I don't care if its 1 - 50, there is literally no benefit to me surrendering and if you're gonna start trolling I'm gonna force you to stay because all you WANT to do is leave.

sit kidFeb 22, 20179 votes

Seems like someone has to get a new server address

Blue Collar BearFeb 22, 20179 votes

@Riot NAKyle

I'd be interested in having a discussion about this. I've always enjoyed talking about design problems with you guys.

I understand what this fix is supposed to do. It's supposed to get you out of games where the game's been lost from the get-go. Level 1 double kill bottom lane, first turret, first dragon, and three turrets all before ten minutes? Yeah, get me out, man. However, I don't think this is the solution to the problem we're having in-game. This is a good addition to the game, at least in theory, since it will help those games that are just lost. This is going to exacerbate a lot of issues, such as people forcing others to surrender, players giving up, etc.^ I'm also understanding that this is in response to demand. A lot of players wanted this feature! They want it, because they're frustrated and disgruntled. I don't think they feel this way, because there's a game that's a house burning down. I think this boils down to the quality of time we invest in a match. I'd say it's safe to say that most players aren't happy with game quality right now. So, onto the actual question:

Do you think that the fifteen minute surrender time will fix either problem?
Why did you choose OCE for your QA testing?
Is this a band-aid fix to get players out of games with negative behavior in it?

Not saying that this is your fault nor in anyway can you guys fix this, because behavior is on the players. Punishments will only go so far to deter negative behavior.

EDIT:

yooo, totally forgot to ask

What would make you think that this is working as intended? What would stop you from implementing this (obstacles)?

RexSaurFeb 22, 20178 votes

Why 15 minutes?

Why even have a minimum time for a unanimous vote?

If all 5 ppl dont want to keep playing the game they should be able to end it, regardless if its 5 10 15 mins in.

LauchmelderFeb 22, 20175 votes

Why play the game at all if you wanna surrender at 5 minutes?

WoonStruckFeb 22, 20174 votes

If its 4v5 or somebody's trolling, why should the rest of the team have to sit through 5-10-15 minutes of it?

LauchmelderFeb 22, 20173 votes

Because if you hit play you play. This loser attitude is utter garbage!

"Meh guys, we just got a red card, let's stop playing and surrender the match, we can't win 10v11 anyway." You see how stupid that sounds?

DarkRitualFeb 22, 20176 votes

Because the enemy team in soccer being one person up doesn't have a gold and item advantage. Your analogy is terrible.

WoonStruckFeb 22, 20178 votes

Why is Riot looking into ending games more quickly instead of addressing the pacing and general lack of enjoyment many players have now that lead to a desire to surrender much, much earlier than previous enjoyable seasons?

This is like putting a band-aid on a burning building.

SpoofghoulFeb 22, 20172 votes

more like peeing into a forest fire hoping that will fix it

TeCoolMageFeb 23, 20172 votes

more like peeing on a drowning person to make them regurgitate the water

Colgate GatorFeb 23, 20178 votes

I'm aware that it's an unpopular opinion and I'll probably be downvoted to hell, but I don't see this being a good change at all.

People are SO defeatist already, such as people going "gg" should the enemy get first blood or something goes awry, you're just encouraging them to give up even quicker.

EunsonFeb 22, 20177 votes

Why bother with this change, the nexus literally falls at 18-20 minutes now with these horrendous Lethality changes. Let people play out the last 3 minutes of their games.

SlythionFeb 22, 20174 votes

Patch 7.4 is pretty much purely built around tackling damage creep, it's not like Riot is doing nothing to handle that...js

WoonStruckFeb 22, 20173 votes

No its not.

It keeps Fervor, Thunderlord's, and Deathfire exactly as they are, and even buffs Fervor because Riot's poor little ADCs aren't taking it 100% of the time.

A 2-5% decrease in overall damage in the most extreme circumstances does not address damage creep enough to make a difference.

Let's not talk about how the amount of resists, as well as the gold cost, were nerfed. Let's not talk about how defensive actives/passives have been gutted compared to what they used to be. Let's not talk about how the only way to actually feel tanky is to have spammable shields in your kit.

Non-keystone masteries are the most insignificant source of damage creep in the game currently.

QGeeFeb 23, 20176 votes

MAKE THE GAME LAST FUCKING LONGER NOT THE SURRENDER TIME TO BE EARLIER Dr Sona x Rubick made a post about this, perhaps read that before making fucking surrender earlier, make the game more entertaining and last longer, not first tower fall within 8 minutes, while I remember this time 1 year ago first tower fell around 15 minutes.

TheHappyReaperzFeb 22, 20175 votes

If you have an AFK, will you still need five votes? A stupid question I know, but it is stated to be unanimous, so I wanted to know if it'll take into affect people who have left.