We don't ban people for asking for reports

RiotRiot NaKyle·Mar 28, 2017·113 votes·65,318 views

Hey all,

Spotted a bit of confusion about whether or not we dish out penalties to players who ask for reports. Just to be super clear, we don't. If a player used asking for reports as a leaping off point for actual harassment, that's when we'd blow the whistle. When we think about updates to Instant Feedback, we think about solving problems that really distract you from what matters: Winning the game. And this issue just doesn't chart that high.

To give a bit more detail, we don't need to penalize for this because Instant Feedback is quite good at filtering out BS reports, and really only needs one to accurately decide whether or not penalties are warranted. If you're looking to make an impact on the community, the absolute best thing you can do is submit earnest, thorough reports when you see some shit you don't want in your game.

321 Comments

AnomanderMar 28, 201778 votes

Riot Husker (EUW) - 8 months ago Hey all. I don't specifically work on the team that deals with reports, but hopefully I can provide some clarity.

To address point one of the OP - Calling for others to report a player is a punishable offense. It is a form of bullying and as such is against the summoner code. It should always be a personal decision for each player as to whether or not they feel another player warrants a report. In fact, do feel free to tell your team mates that "report calling" in itself counts as harassment. Flaming and bullying a player will never help them to improve their game mechanics, communication etc. Take five minutes to add someone and talk to them after game. Perhaps do some customs to help them learn a champion, or how to gank or how to use vision.

To the second point of the OP - Don't worry about how many reports a player receives at the end of a given game. What's important is that if you feel a player truly deserves to be reported, that you do so. Don't feel pressured in to doing something by your team mates asking you to report a player. It's all recorded and all counts.

This is just one example of he MANY times riot has said asking for reports is ban able

https://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour-en/EE7d58Pu-dear-riotsome-clarification-please?show=nested

Gee i wonder why there is confusion.....................

AeszarckMar 28, 201720 votes

{quoted}

Gee i wonder why there is confusion.....................

To add on to this:

[{quoted}](name=Riot Tantram,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=AnqnsBPV,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2017-02-13T21:57:11.486+0000)

It was a light penalty escalated to perma-ban because of your huge penalty history (6 different penalties). Asking for reports is considered harassment by the community. You were harassing the jungler, asking for people to report them when they were doing nothing wrong.

Having a bad game is not reportable. Asking to report someone for having a bad game, is reportable.

It would have been a 10-game chat restriction without your history.

Tantram has another comment a bit farther down too expressing a similar message.

~~Riot NaKyle, are you saying that it is reportable but not punishable, or at least not bannable? Do you dish out chat restrictions for asking for reports at least?~~ EDIT: I see in the body of your post that you say that you do not give penalties. Since Tantram says that this is reportable, does that just mean that the player will never be punished for this, but if we report for it anyways our reports will not be devalued by the system? Are my reports low value because I have reported for "asking for reports" multiple times? Finally, did you very recently change the Instant Feedback System?

RiotRiot NaKyleMar 28, 201721 votes

Yeah, that's why we're clarifying. Now let's dive into the details of this one to clear this up.

You're playing adc (in 2017), and everything's going fine. But then your jungler blows a gank mid and your midlaner goes off the deep end. They pop off with "Report troll jungler" in all chat and other, worse bullshit. Even if the other team reported that jungler, the jungler wouldn't get hit with a penalty because they didn't actually do anything wrong. However, if the jungler reports the midlaner, they're likely to get hit with a penalty depending on just how much they tilted and their game-over-game history with that type of talk.

Where the confusion creeps in is when you try to reduce things down to: Does "X" mean penalties. Instant Feedback only works that way with hate speech and threats of harm. That's the sort of harassment the team is much more focused on. Report calling is often a minor negative thing, but say there's a spectrum of chat where 1 is hyper-friendly, 5 is neutral, and 10 is literal death threats, this is like a 6.

PrynceMar 28, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot NaKyle,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=PzY1ArN3,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2017-03-28T22:29:27.210+0000)

Yeah, that's why we're clarifying. Now let's dive into the details of this one to clear this up.

You're playing adc (in 2017), and everything's going fine. But then your jungler blows a gank mid and your midlaner goes off the deep end. They pop off with "Report troll jungler" in all chat and other, worse bullshit. Even if the other team reported that jungler, the jungler wouldn't get hit with a penalty because they didn't actually do anything wrong. However, if the jungler reports the midlaner, they're likely to get hit with a penalty depending on just how much they tilted and their game-over-game history with that type of talk.

Where the confusion creeps in is when you try to reduce things down to: Does "X" mean penalties. Instant Feedback only works that way with hate speech and threats of harm. That's the sort of harassment the team is much more focused on. Report calling is often a minor negative thing, but say there's a spectrum of chat where 1 is hyper-friendly, 5 is neutral, and 10 is literal death threats, this is like a 6.

Thank you for clarifying, but I'm a bit confused. So, the mid laner report calling isn't bannable, but in your scenario because he report called in a toxic way, he had a high chance of being banned because it can be toxic itself (if he used certain languages and etc). So report calling is okay, just don't be a dick about it...?

RiotRiot NaKyleMar 28, 201742 votes

"Just don't be a dick" about it is a great baseline approach to League of Legends. Lol

AnomanderMar 28, 201727 votes

Subjective at best...... more miscommunication at it's finest.

ChønklordMar 28, 201718 votes

You do realize that stating 'don't be a dick about it' is extremely subjective, don't you?

Not trying to be rude but, have you taken any civics courses, psychology, behavioral studies etc....? Anyone who understands the fundamentals of logic and critical thinking realize that what you're stating is relative to the perception of the individual; i.e. therefore it is subjective.

BlåbæretMar 28, 20174 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bôôsted Bonobo,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=PzY1ArN3,comment-id=000400000000000000000001,timestamp=2017-03-28T23:00:04.935+0000)

You do realize that stating 'don't be a dick about it' is extremely subjective, don't you?

Not trying to be rude but, have you taken any civics courses, psychology, behavioral studies etc....? Anyone who understands the fundamentals of logic and critical thinking realize that what you're stating is relative to the perception of the individual; i.e. therefore it is subjective.

Dude, take your relativism with you somewhere else. You have common sense, right? Use it.

ChønklordMar 28, 201713 votes

'common sense' can be quite relative; what is 'common' to you may not be 'common' to me, depending on social, economic and cultural factors. Anyway, your post doesn't change the facts of what I said.

BlåbæretMar 29, 20175 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bôôsted Bonobo,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=PzY1ArN3,comment-id=00040000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2017-03-28T23:54:56.337+0000)

'common sense' can be quite relative; what is 'common' to you may not be 'common' to me, depending on social, economic and cultural factors. Anyway, your post doesn't change the facts of what I said.

I don't think you got my point: It does not matter what you deem subjective. This is Riot's game; they set the rules. When Riot says don't be like this and that, that's exactly what it means in their terms. If you cannot, for whatever reason, fattom what they mean by "don't be like this" then that is solely your own problem. Listing every single type of behavior that falls under such a category (assuming you have no thought of your own) is extremely impractical, unless you're willing to read, I don't know, 10000000 pages of behavioral descriptions.

Scientific discourse has moved away from relativism a long time ago. Read Kant and his likes if you're interested. Relativism today is what you use when you've ran out of decent arguements. I'm pretty sure no one would have any issues understanding what is, and what is not acceptable behavior. In case that is not clear to a person for whatever reason, then said person should research, in this case, american or western behavior.

I do not need a babysit guide to understand a sign that says "do not sit here". Using your logic I could simply say "hey, sitting is subjective, my parents taught me that sitting is a term that only accounts for grown-ups, we children have another term, so that must mean I can sit here". This type of fallacy is exactly what relativism brings with itself, and this is literally the point of view that you're arguing for. Obviously this does not strike you as completely absurd, so go figure why you're still using such a train of thought. This is known as subjectivist fallacy. Feel free to google it. I'm surprised to see a person that claims to have knowledge of certain things to apply fallacy to angle an arguement towards the unreasonable.

I AM NOT SAYING THAT REPORT-CALLING ISN'T HARASSMENT, WHICH I THINK IT IS. I AM SIMPLY BAFFLED BY THE APPARENT NEED TO BRING RELATIVISM INTO THE EQUATION.

AnomanderMar 29, 201711 votes

The problem is that the rioter introduced a vast subjective opinion into what was a clear cut issue. Even worse is that it was to clarify what should have been a very clear cut issue. Instead Riot NaKyle made it a vastly more complicated.

Calling for reports was bad.

Now it is bad if you do it in a way that makes you a dick.

Riot determines who is a dick but gives no clarification on what being a dick means.

When you are the creator of the subjective opinion you need to have a clear vision of it's scope.

You can't lump just western society into this either as these boards encompass other region such as EU as well. Where behavioral norms are vastly different then many regions of the US. Even from state to state in the US behavior patterns change drastically. (Have you ever driven in California?)

Also you analogy was horrid. "do not sit here" Is vastly different then "do not sit here if you are a dick" which is the appropriate analogy.

RiotRiot DragglesMar 29, 201727 votes

item 3187 wake up sheeple, boosted bonobo has got you all figured out

AnomanderMar 28, 20175 votes

While I understand that is is a VERY minor offense, How about in the cases of CONSISTENT behavior that is minor in nature but still a negative environment creating behavior?

So a person calling for reports EVERY SINGLE game purposely to make others players irate will never be punished.

And just to clarify.

This is RIOT's Official position on this matter?

*edit

No one is saying that report calling should be a instant punishment.(i.e. first offense) However a consistent behavior of it should lead to a punishment over time.

eldurisMar 28, 20178 votes

So what I gather from this, asking for reports is not exclusively a punishable offense. That is, simply asking for a report, while unnecessary, is not something that will get you punished if you do it. However, often times, asking for reports is coupled with other objectively questionable messages, and those are what lead to punishment in the end. Is this the correct line of thinking?

If so, I appreciate you taking the time to clarify. However, I still maintain my previous request regarding messaging across platforms. I've been volunteering for Riot for upwards of 4 years now and this is a consistent problem that Riot tends to have. There seems to be little communication from one department to another, let alone entire regions. I know this is probably something that's already on the radar, but I, along with the rest of the League community, would appreciate more consistent communication from representatives regarding matters such as this.

Thank you again for your time here today. I truly appreciate the clarification you have brought regarding this matter.

ModUlanopoMar 28, 201713 votes

Let's unpack this a bit.

They pop off with "Report troll jungler" in all chat

RiotTantram and other behavior specialists have made clear statements in the past that asking for reports can be - and often is - harassment all by itself. Report begging also used to score fairly high with the Tribunal.

The whole point of the 1 report = 9 reports messaging was to try to reduce this type of toxicity.

Even if the other team reported that jungler, the jungler wouldn't get hit with a penalty because they didn't actually do anything wrong.

Are you stating that report begging doesn't trigger a review against the target? I don't think people were confused about that.

Report calling is often a minor negative thing, but say there's a spectrum of chat where 1 is hyper-friendly, 5 is neutral, and 10 is literal death threats, this is like a 6.

That's an interesting statement. Death threats generally trigger an immediate, escalated response from the IFS, but they're also fairly rare - at least in my experience. The same goes for racial/ethnic/sexist slurs. They're much less common from what I used to see back in the day.

Report begging is less toxic, but it's also much more commonplace, meaning that more people are affected by it. Given the majority of toxicity comes from people who are not routinely toxic, but are having a bad day, is it really wise to increase the number of potential triggers?

I think the point here should be that report begging won't rocket you to a permaban, but that doesn't make it okay and asking for reports can get you into trouble.

LookMyBigBrainMar 29, 20171 votes

This is completely out of topic and I'm sorry but why is your name in blue. Rioters' names are in red and normal peoples are in yellowish. Why is your name blue??

ChønklordMar 29, 201711 votes

He's ~~someone that spends so much time on the boards kissing Rioters' unwashed feet they gave him something to do~~ a volunteer.

[slayer-jinx-catface]

ModUlanopoMar 29, 20175 votes

That's funny.

The real story is I created the Knowledge Base on the old TBI so I could copy/paste answers to routine questions and provide links to Riot resources. One Rioter asked if the thread could be stickied and I said no, but another Rioter stickied it without asking. I suppose the rest is history.

Short version: I was volunteering my time long before Riot even knew I existed.

ModWuksMar 29, 20178 votes

Arbiters spend the time to understand the nuances of the Player Behavior systems and work with the community to clarify misconceptions and confusion.

I try not to step in too much nowadays, but if there's ever an issue I can work with a player to resolve, I'll do so. In essence, it's more about the understanding of the PB systems and helping others empathetically rather than kissing ass.

¯_(ツ)_/¯

ChønklordMar 29, 20175 votes

You're not actually clarifying at all; unless you're saying your colleague Riot Tantram was/is wrong?

And also Tantram stated previously that the community decides what is punishable through the IFS system, via machine learning and if something is reported as toxic enough -- then the system will 'learn' and start issuing penalties / flagging accounts based on what the community says is not ok. Is this also incorrect_... since you just stated the IFS only works automatically with hate speech and threats of harm_?

Also, are you in charge or a lead developer of the IFS? Are you qualified to be making these 'clarifications', although they go against what was previously stated as fact by Riot barely a month ago?

eldurisMar 28, 201724 votes

With all due respect, would you mind clarifying this post from Riot Husker?

To address point one of the OP - Calling for others to report a player is a punishable offense. It is a form of bullying and as such is against the summoner code. It should always be a personal decision for each player as to whether or not they feel another player warrants a report. In fact, do feel free to tell your team mates that "report calling" in itself counts as harassment. Flaming and bullying a player will never help them to improve their game mechanics, communication etc. Take five minutes to add someone and talk to them after game. Perhaps do some customs to help them learn a champion, or how to gank or how to use vision.

As a volunteer on these boards, I strive to have the most accurate, up-to-date information regarding the behavioral systems so that I do not spread misinformation. But, in scenarios like this, I may not actually be aware I am spreading misinformation when I quote what a Rioter said. My only request is that messaging be clear and consistent across all platforms, so that we do not have another situation like this.

RiotRiot NaKyleMar 29, 20178 votes

Sure. Husker's post prompted this one. The short version is what I explained above. Basically, Husker's post mischaracterizes the severity of report calling by equating it with outright flaming and bullying. Report calling is bad but its not that bad (by what the community tells us through reports). Goes back to the 1-10 scale bit I mentioned a comment or two ago.

ChønklordMar 29, 201723 votes

How can you say report calling is "bad but not 'that bad'", when there is literally zero justification for ever report calling anyone in the first place? It quite literally does not do anything to have more reports, therefore the only logical conclusion/result from someone report calling is the creation/addition of griefing/toxicity and a negative gameplay experience for everyone involved. How is this not punishable?

Because of the fact that more reports are not of anymore value than one report, the concept of "report calling" is akin to "player shaming/coercion/bullying", regardless whether or not the reported player in question is deserving of a report in the first place. Therefore, with how the current system is setup, report calling is harassment at its fundamental core, and calling for reports is a much more common occurrence than hate speech or violent threats, according to Riot.

AckelopeMar 29, 20172 votes

well i'd say a lot of the justification of it not being punishable on its own comes from player ignorance. regardless of whether or not reporting someone many times has any more impact than one, it is very likely that people will think it does and thus call for it when they think someone deserves a report. of course, the situations that often revolve around report calling, particularly the innocence usually shown of the person that the offender is asking to report, can end up giving the offender a ban. it's just not enough on its own because there are plenty of cases where people are asking to report someone when they genuinely think that person is being toxic or doing something wrong, and not actually meaning to harass the player in question, and because they are unaware of whether or not more bans = more likely to receive punishment, it's considered a much lighter offense.

that's my guess, anyway.

ChønklordMar 29, 201711 votes

well i'd say a lot of the justification of it not being punishable on its own comes from player ignorance. regardless of whether or not reporting someone many times has any more impact than one, it is very likely that people will think it does and thus call for it when they think someone deserves a report.

Player ignorance is not an excuse for harassment, regardless of the 'level' of harassment. It's Riot's job to make sure their customer base is aware of what is and is not allowable behavior in their game.

If that's their reasoning, then it's an extremely lazy and honestly, morally disgusting way to go about (not) handling this type of harassment.

The problem is that Riot has already stated report calling is punishable and reportable in and of itself, as I quoted Riot Tantram's post from a month ago. There is also the post on EUW side from Riot Husker, there's an old post from Riot Lyte back in 2013, and so on.

If they truly wanted to permanently fix the issue of "report calling", they would add a summary on the reporting functions on their website where it is visible to all players, not just here on the boards. And by that I mean add it to the Summoner's Code, add it to the player support portal site, add it as a 'ask the devs' blog post, add it everywhere. Send a fucking e-mail out to every registered player's e-mail address with the correct information on how the report system works, and that you only need one report; yours. Then you won't see anyone calling for reports ever again, and this issue would be moot.

What you're saying basically is: "well, some players don't know that you only need one report, so it's ok for anyone to call for reports, because we simply don't know if they know not to do it". Sorry, but that's straight up bullshit and I sincerely hope Riot doesn't think that way.

ChønklordMar 28, 201716 votes

If 1 report is the same as 9, and tantram yesterday literally posted and said (paraphrasing) "if report > 0 then review", how is asking for reports not considered toxic, since all it takes is that same one person report to flag another?

Asking for reports in and of itself creates distraction and needless witchhunting ingame for any perceived "slight", ie top lane went ivern w/ smite? "Report troll"; mid lane got stomped 0-4 by a better player under 6 minutes? "Report Int feeder". These are all just examples of what happens in ranked games every day across thousands of games in NA alone.

Not to mention your colleagues have previously stated the contrary to what you just posted, as evidenced below by another commentor.

Then riot wonders why the community gets up in arms about miscommunication or lack of clarity on punishments and the like (nunu smite support case for esample).

Seriously, get your shit together. Either be transparent with the community on how your system works fully, or work on giving your staffers better training and cohesion to stay on message.

Not to mention I've seen multiple cases here on the forums where rioters and support staff either flat out or insinuated that players were punished for report calling in chat.

AMYS GRAVEMar 28, 20176 votes

Asking for reports in and of itself creates distraction and needless witchhunting ingame for any perceived "slight"

This ^ through and through. Calling for reports does nothing but create a negative environment.

ChønklordMar 29, 201714 votes

The more I re-read and analyze this new stance by Riot (according to this Rioter), the more I realize how utterly ridiculous and shortsighted this new stance is.

Like, do you guys at Riot have any clue what allowing players to 'report call' others without penalty will actually do to the overall levels of griefing/toxicity?

Here, I'll give you an example (which is happening right now all the time):

Player A goes off-meta pick (let's say top ivern with exhaust/smite for easier enemy jg camp steals);
Player A maybe has some good games, and some bad games -- it's the nature of league (there is only 1 winning team and 1 losing team, losing happens);
For the sake of this example, let's say we're observing a 'bad game' from Player A.

Now, Teammate Player B sees our Player A struggling in lane, maybe Player A is like 0-3 a few minutes in, whatever. Player A is having a bad game remember, he's genuinely trying to win the game and has had good games with this pick previously.

OK so, Teammate Player B sees the 0-3 score, has already in his mind pre-determined Player A to be a 'troll' from champ select (maybe he said something about the pick, maybe he didn't); now Teammate Player B at this point in-game starts calling for reports -- "report the troll ivern, he's int feeding! troll player ivern smite top!" in /all chat -- now, everyone in the game sees this call for reports, sees our Player A is 0-3, sees the Ivern/smite pick top lane, and they start to think 'yea maybe he's int. feeding / trolling', so they say stuff in chat like 'yea report him definitely, will do', etc.

Now, we here on the forums are (mostly) aware that reports do not stack, 1 is the same as 9, so on and so forth. Perhaps in this example scenario, our Player A doesn't know this; they just know everyone is calling them a troll, saying they're going to report him and whatnot. How do you think Player A is going to feel? Not good about themselves, that's for sure.

Best case scenario, Player A starts to feel pressured to do better -- and perhaps they were already feeling pressured because they're having a bad game -- but now it's extreme pressure; maybe they also feel harassed, or angry. After all, Player A was never intending to 'troll' or 'feed', they genuinely just like Ivern top and realized using smite makes it easier to steal camps away from the enemy.

Maybe, Player A gets frustrated so much on being called out for reports by everyone, that their playing gets worse; after all, has anyone ever done better in League after having someone else harass them about their poor performance? No.

Maybe, the other teammates on Player A's team start chiming in with how 'Player A is such a troll, wow. GG you feeder'; now you have other players being toxic and/or griefing.

So here we have an example where, according to Riot now, Teammate Player B faces no punishment for (in this case falsely) report calling, even though they've visibly made the game experience worse for Player A. Additionally, they've created a witchhunt against Player A and other players in the game have started chiming in with their own negativity. Awesome, so the whole team is now possibly punished (minus Player A), for the illegitimate report calling from one person.

Now multiply this kind of scenario across thousands of games, and how many players are negatively affected/impacted by false reports/report calling when the reported player in question genuinely and objectively has done nothing wrong.

Still think 'report calling' is a 'minuscule issue' and not worthy of punishment...?

P.S. if you read the entire comment, congratulations. This example is actually something that happened to me this morning in a ranked game of league when I played Ivern top.

ChønklordMar 29, 20177 votes

Here I'll even shorten the example:

Player A is playing Ivern top lane w/ smite, and is 0-5 a few minutes into the game, but genuinely trying and just having a bad game

Player B: "hey Player A stop feeding"
Player A: "I'm not trying to, just having a bad game. I need help"
Player B: "lol you're 0-5 playing Ivern top vs _____ champ matchup, you're definitely trolling us"
Player A: "I am most definitely not trolling, stop harassing me please"
Few minutes go by, Player A has been not been given any help from his team, is now 1-7 after taking a tower
Player B: "WOW really, stop dying Player A!!"
Player B: /all "guys please report Player A he's obviously int feeding and trolling us"
Enemy Team (who don't really care, but are privately glad someone is tilting): "yea we'll definitely report" / "lol you troll, get reported"
Other Teammate 1: "yea dude stop trolling us"
Other Teammate 2: "gg this is over, we have an int feeder"
Other Teammate 3: "knew i should have dodged this game"

End result of calling for reports: negative experience all around with possible punishments for harassment across the board.

Now tell me Riot, how is calling for reports not a "distraction from winning the game" and doesn't "chart that high" on importance of punishment?????

Gene HikazeMar 29, 201714 votes

@Riot NaKyle

I've worked in this industry for years. I've had my time with Riot Games; I will preface this by saying that I am no longer member of their staff. I don't care if I get reprimanded for this by the staff because this needs to be said. You all need to get your collective heads out of your arses and actually come together and create a stance on this that is UNIVERSAL AND APPLIES TO ALL LEVELS AND LOCALS FOR THIS GAME.

It should be pretty clear cut by the language in the TOS. All of player support should have to know a lot about the TOS, I know this because it's basically the player support bible for how to deal with situations of PLAYER A reporting PLAYER B for whatever action they were taking in game. I know support gets bombarded with player requests for bans to take place for actions and the system should be much more clear cut and transparent as to when bans are handed down or not. The biggest problem with how this has been handled is that the language in the TOS is ambiguous at best and it really shouldn't be that open ended in this case.

I suggested that a system be put into place when I was there. It might sound familiar to you:

A player calling out into chat for another player to get "reported" should always be classified as player harassment for two reasons:

IT IS HARASSMENT regardless of the content of the message. It is harassing to the targeted player and to the other team to have another player disrupt the flow of the game with negative chat like this in the ALL CHAT. Even if what they said was not offensive to the player, ALL CHATTING "REPORT PLAYER X" is distracting and can even change the way players are acting in the game (i.e., cause a team to target player X because they now know the harassing player will not support them). Regardless of the content of the message it still shows a clear cut lack of unity on the teams behalf and CAN AND WILL ALWAYS effect the game, regardless of the fact that the messages content is or is not defamatory.
IT IS NOT NECESSARY for more than one player in the game to report another player for any reportable offense. The Instant Feedback system was designed to automatically detect if a report was needed or not and as you yourself stated: ONLY NEEDS ONE PLAYER TO REPORT ANOTHER PLAYER FOR IT TO KICK INTO ACTION. The act of calling out another player to be reported is not necessary in any way shape or form for this to happen, therefore the act of doing this should be classified as negative and defamatory behavior regardless of the nature of the message be it "Report PLAYER X, they AFK'ed" or "Report PLAYER X, they're a (FILL IN RACISIT/DEROGATORY TERM HERE)."

Harassment of another player should always be taken as a punishable offense, regardless of how slight it is; a lightly toxic offense allowed, leads players into being more toxic in nature in the future and should be squashed at the start, not when it gets bad enough to ban them for it. Riot should be more willing to issue chat restrictions to get their point across on this and the complete lack of action in attempting to usurp this type of behavior is appalling. It should be that they take action on these lower offenses with lower punishments to make the player understand that they are being watched and that this type of thing, WHILE NOT BANNABLE can result in action being taken against them. This was discussed at length in the past while such an issue had come up and we had decided that this should be the stance, but it was never approved by anyone as an official standpoint (BUT SHOULD HAVE BEEN). This is why Riot Husker had made the comment that he had made because that was intended to be the stance across the board and it just wasn't put into place.

And I am sorry,

When we think about updates to Instant Feedback, we think about solving problems that really distract you from what matters: Winning the game. And this issue just doesn't chart that high.

It's very clearly understood that this effects the low tiered levels of game at its very core. All games where this happens it effects the outcome almost 100% of the time and I don't think I could possibly sit here (being locked into bronze as I am) and watch a member of the player support team come onto the forums and try to tell me that it doesn't effect the game when it is very clearly known throughout all of the support staff (and the player base) that it does. There wouldn't have been need to comment on this (by Riot Husker) if it didn't.

I have honestly off and on seen this behavior in game and warned people about doing this because it's a distraction and negatively effects team unity 100% of the time that it happens. Players can attempt to try to fix the issue and solve the problem in game BUT EVEN THAT IS A DISTRACTION FROM WHAT THEY ARE TRYING TO DO: WIN THE GAME, and you can not say that it is not harder to CS as an ADC when you have to chat to your team to get them to stop flame warring each other. It is a distraction 100% of the time, and it should be reportable 100% of the time.

We had even discussed ways to warn players about these sorts of things; the in game pop up box that warns players that their actions had been reviewed and action had been taken against their account, should be good enough. Most times players that see that go "oh shite" and stop acting this way. Players also receive a box to let them know when a report has had action taken upon those whom they had reported, which is good feedback for the people who are reporting these kinds of behaviors to let them know, "Hey, we actually do care that you care about this too." I know that the new client doesn't have this feature working (from what I understood) and it needs to be a higher priority because the feedback system needs to let the community know when it's actually doing work for them.

I am sorry if I come across rude or pissed off about this (honestly I actually am kind of pissed off about this) but there needs to be a single statement by Riot Games in regards to this. Not a forum post by a somewhat misleading Riot Staff member that hadn't bothered to research the topic or to look over what their own co-workers had previously stated in the past. This comment makes Riot Husker (whom I have great respect for) look like he was talking out of his ass. It shows a very clear cut lack of a unified approach to player support and only serves to make Riot Games as a whole look bad to the community. You guys need to get your act together. Honestly if I were Riot NaKyle's supervisor I would advise him to delete this post and possibly tell him never to post on the topic again unless told to by the higher ups. All you've served to do here is make yourself look like you don't know what you are talking about OR at best, make Riot Husker look like he didn't know what he was talking about. Get your act together and finally address the issue with a well thought out and clear cut answer. Make it THE RIOT GAMES OFFICIAL STANDPOINT and go from there. And someone, please revoke Riot Draggles's posting rights. He basically trolled on another staff members post and didn't actually bother to add anything useful or insightful to the conversation besides calling the community "Sheep". If I were their super I'd write him up for that...

I like League of Legends, I like the League of Legends community (as a whole), I enjoy playing the game and it's a great way to relax after a shite day at work.

TLDR: Riot needs to have an Official standpoint on this.. not a bunch of blathering idiots making comments that are the opposite of each other... [slayer-jinx-unamused]

yoshi2790Mar 28, 201710 votes

If 9 people report a player instead of 1, does it make a difference?

If not, then why do people ask to report?

Carrie PigeonMar 28, 20175 votes

{quoted}

If 9 people report a player instead of 1, does it make a difference?

If not, then why do people ask to report?

This is likely due to people simply not understanding the system.

AMYS GRAVEMar 28, 20178 votes

Riot Tantrum:

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/f/ZGEFLEUQ/d/AnqnsBPV?comment=000d

Asking for reports is considered harassment by the community.

vs. here:

If a player used asking for reports as a leaping off point for actual harassment, that's when we'd blow the whistle

What now?

ChønklordMar 28, 20178 votes

So I'm free then to ask for reports in all of my games, if I perceive someone doing something against the Summoner Code... i.e.

Game 1: "Report mid lane int feeding" (player only went 0-4 in 6 minutes against a better player) Game 2: "Report jungler trolling/not assisting team" (jungler farming for 10 minutes straight) Game 3: "Report bot lane trolling" (not calling MIAs, not communicating with pings)

So on and so on. Whether or not I have a valid reason to report someone, I am still allowed then to simply ask for "report player X" for whatever perceived slight, or problem, I feel they are making, correct?

And I won't be punished for this. I can witchhunt a player and have everyone 'mob report' them (even though it could be 'false reporting'), as long as I don't say anything else in the chat except "please report player X for <insert whatever here>", and this action is not punishable according to you/Riot, am I understanding correctly?

Will start doing this ASAP; if my ~~$3k invested w/ over 2k games in s7 played~~ account gets permabanned, I can direct Player Support to your post then, to get my ban lifted, right? After all, I'm just trying to bring justice to those I believe to be committing wrongdoings.

P.S. Yes I had bit of an addiction for a while with buying a lot of loot crates, and yes I play way too much league per day; I have a diagnosed problem.

LuciferMar 28, 20177 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot NaKyle,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=PzY1ArN3,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-03-28T20:40:08.939+0000)

Hey all,

Spotted a bit of confusion about whether or not we dish out penalties to players who ask for reports. Just to be super clear, we don't. If a player used asking for reports as a leaping off point for actual harassment, that's when we'd blow the whistle. When we think about updates to Instant Feedback, we think about solving problems that really distract you from what matters: Winning the game. And this issue just doesn't chart that high.

To give a bit more detail, we don't need to penalize for this because Instant Feedback is quite good at filtering out BS reports, and really only needs one to accurately decide whether or not penalties are warranted. If you're looking to make an impact on the community, the absolute best thing you can do is submit earnest, thorough reports when you see some shit you don't want in your game.

This doesn't make much sense to me, and other Rioters have said differently in the past. I don't understand very many situations where asking others to report someone ever makes the situation less toxic. Especially when it only takes one report to trigger a review.

AeszarckMar 29, 20171 votes

{quoted}

This doesn't make much sense to me, and other Rioters have said differently in the past. I don't understand very many situations where asking others to report someone ever makes the situation less toxic. Especially when it only takes one report to trigger a review.

From what I got from Riot NaKyle's response to me, he is posting this post because they very recently changed the policy. He did not make that at all clear in the original post.

His argument seems to be that it is a less toxic behavior and that people should not really be punished over it. Is Riot's Instant Feedback System being overwhelmed with reports and cutting down on the reports for asking for reports will allow it to sort through more serious reports better? I don't know, and that would be the only reason I would support Riot on this issue, if it were true. If they're doing it because some players are complaining that the IFS is too harsh, then I don't support this move at all, because we already have a reputation for an extremely toxic community and I think the IFS should have as many reasonable tools as possible to punish toxic behavior. This is a reasonably toxic behavior, in my opinion, so it should be punished.

ChønklordMar 29, 20174 votes

Except he didn't say "We're doing this because our team is overwhelmed with the reports" or anything like that, he said that the "team wants to focus more on the 'serious toxicity'" and report calling is "only a 6 on the 'chat spectrum' of bad, so we aren't going to punish anyone for it", and essentially report calling is "not significant enough for Riot". Overall, they are completely wrong and out of touch with how players actually use and abuse "report calling" ingame. 99% of the time someone calls for reports, it's not for a valid reason; 100% of report calling is also not justifiable whatsoever, and tends to create more negativity and toxicity in any given game.

So yea.... essentially Riot: "we don't care to punish what is, in our eyes, 'just a little' toxicity, we only want to focus on 'the bigg'uns'".

Except, I don't see how you can give more weight/balance to "big fat hate speech and harassment in 10 games -- OMG must deal with right now" versus "report calling creating low-level negativity throughout 100 games -- nah that's OK".

KoboldMar 28, 20176 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot NaKyle,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=PzY1ArN3,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-03-28T20:40:08.939+0000)

Hey all,

Spotted a bit of confusion about whether or not we dish out penalties to players who ask for reports. Just to be super clear, we don't. If a player used asking for reports as a leaping off point for actual harassment, that's when we'd blow the whistle.

This and the announcement that multiple reports do not affect a person is very different from what was told to us years ago. This in itself shows a issue with Riots closed door policy on how things work in the Client and feedback system. Riot as a company really needs to be announcing these as soon as they change not after it causes confusion but the moment the actual change happens. Also keep players updated on it as well, not keeping them in the dark on issues like these.

EDIT: See my responses as it seems I was wrong on them not stating that only one report was needed. The fact still remains there is much needed improvement to be done in regards to communicating to players policy and feedback/report changes.

AnomanderMar 28, 20172 votes

The number of reports hasn't matters since the instant feedback system was instituted.

ChønklordMar 28, 20175 votes

Exactly. So why grief in game and call for reports. One is the same as 9. It's needless griefing and witchhunting

DeathBurstMar 29, 20176 votes

I feel this post only adds to the confusion.

Correct me if I'm wrong. Asking for reports is not punishable in itself. Asking for reports as a symptom of real harassment, however, is punishable. All right?

Well, but when does this bloody distinction matters at all, seriously? 9 out of 10 times, if someone jumps to asking for reports against another player, he was already flaming that player for a while anyway. So why not just stay with the old stance from Riot Husker: asking for reports is a form of harassment and as such it is reportable (and punishable), period.

I, for one, will continue reporting the people who ask for reports as "verbal abuse", even after reading this thread. And I for sure hope that my report weight won't be devalued because of that.

EndlessSorcererMar 29, 20175 votes

So why not just stay with the old stance from Riot Husker: asking for reports is a form of harassment and as such it is reportable (and punishable), period.

I, for one, will continue reporting the people who ask for reports as "verbal abuse", even after reading this thread. And I for sure hope that my report weight won't be devalued because of that.

Agreed.

Honestly, I'm not even sure why they bothered to post this. Other Rioters have been quite clear in the past that soliciting reports against another player is punishable behaviour.

Great MutaMar 28, 20174 votes

There you go.

Feel free to ask for reports everyone, Riot is giving you the OK.

Don't forget, by asking for reports you have an extra 1/8th of a chance of another person actually reporting someone and you never know, that could be the lucky one.

Since things like arguing and calling someone a "retard" are enough to justify bans, the more you harass people by asking for reports, the better chance you have at making them say something to get themselves in trouble.

ChønklordMar 28, 20179 votes

Yep. Just as long as you don't leap off with harassment from the starting point of "report player X for ______", then you're golden! Who cares if you're lying or it's a false report; after all, you might believe you're serving justice against that troll/feeder/griefer/whatever, whether or not they are actually doing any of those things!

And as you said, who knows, maybe they'll say something really toxic back to you, so your false report actually becomes a real one!

~~Witchhunting~~ Report calling -- Riot stamp of approval!

[slayer-jinx-wink]

Flawless FetusMar 29, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot NaKyle,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=PzY1ArN3,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-03-28T20:40:08.939+0000)

the absolute best thing you can do is submit earnest, thorough reports when you see some shit you don't want in your game.

Lol. I shall report feeders from here on out. :^]

ChønklordMar 29, 20175 votes

Also don't forget to report players that are just having a bad day/game, but as long as you believe they're intentionally feeding, report call away! Get as many players in the game to agree to report them. It's OK now :). I mean, more than one report still won't weigh more than just the one, but hey you might end up tilting/stressing the player out enough that they'll say something toxic/incriminating in the chat and justify the report anyway!

Remember, You just have to believe you're serving justice and don't do it in a harassing manner.

ShroomPlugTeemoMar 19, 20181 votes

i just got banned for asking for reports. when i made a thread about it everyone told me i deserved it cus i asked to report an afker

RiotRiot TantramMar 20, 201819 votes

No, you didn't. There's a whole thread of people trying to help you understand why you were banned. You've also had many penalties and don't seem to learn from any of them.

Jo0oMar 20, 20182 votes

Actually, while you're here, can we get some clarification on the subject of report calling? This thread unequivocally states that it wouldn't trigger a punishment, but other Rioter comments indicate otherwise.

My understanding is that a singular call for reports isn't enough to trigger a punishment, but like other forms of light negativity, it can be pushed to the point of contributing to a harassment punishment or similar. Is this accurate?

RiotRiot TantramMar 20, 20185 votes

My understanding is that a singular call for reports isn't enough to trigger a punishment, but like other forms of light negativity, it can be pushed to the point of contributing to a harassment punishment or similar. Is this accurate?

This is accurate.