Limely and Drevarius on League's social systems

RiotRiot NaKyle·9/16/2015, 11:32:05 PM·13 votes·23,937 views

Hey all,

To share some insight into the PBE release of persistent chat rooms, Limely (product owner and designer) and Drevarius (designer) dished about the past, present and future of how we hit the Rift with friends. Read on to learn more about where we’ve been and where we’re headed with League’s social systems. We’ll hang out to answer questions below.

NaKyle:

So, persistent chat rooms hit the PBE earlier today. How do you expect players to use them?

Drevarius: We expect groups of friends to use persistent chat rooms to stay connected, organize games, and potentially get to know friends of friends. Having a bit of chat history also makes it easier to have some context for the conversation when you log on and join the chat room.

Limely: We also put moderation tools in there so players can have some control and keep out unwanted guests like spam bots and sketchy dudes. Ultimately, this stuff is pretty overdue, but we’re still excited to get it out the door.

**NaKyle: ** Cool. So, bigger picture: “Social systems” is a big and kinda vague term. What’s it mean to you? What are some of your guiding principles for building social systems and features for League?

Drevarius: Social systems are essentially features that connect players and encourage them to experience League together. This is still a big and vague description, but there are a lot of components that contribute to social, like finding IRL friends (Facebook friend discovery), learning more about the friends you already have (player hovercards), and sweetening the pot for playing together (party rewards).

Limely: These features all individually add value, but they’re pretty narrow and isolated in terms of the problems they solve. We want to start looking at “social systems” as something more cohesive. We want to get to a point where the whole suite of features work together to do all the things Drevarius mentioned and more.

That’s our big picture goal, but the actual implementation starts with some tedious overhauling of existing and foundational systems. That work was and still is time-consuming and almost invisible to players, which sucks. The strategy moving forward is to release larger features piece by piece, that way we ship stuff at a better cadence and iterate based on timely feedback from players. Persistent chat rooms, a pretty modest system on its own, is an example of one of those smaller, quicker steps.

NaKyle: How do small steps like persistent chat rooms feed into that broader vision for social systems?

Limely: Well, we’ve tried to make it easier to connect players with their friends, but we’ve learned that sometimes it takes more than that to get friends actually playing together. If you have no context as to the type of player your new friend is--jungler/silver/Warwick main--you might never go to the trouble of finding out if your playstyles are compatible, let alone jump into a game together.

Drevarius: It’s about more than providing playstyle context through hovercards though. Party Rewards get people playing together through bonus IP, but that doesn’t mean the friendship will stick and those players will keep playing together. So the strategic approach Limely’s talking about needs to include ways of finding players that you want to keep playing with.

NaKyle: You mentioned friends of friends. Do you see those connections as especially important?

**Limely: ** Yeah, we do. You’re more likely to have things in common with friends of friends than outright strangers. And besides that, when we help you connect those dots, you can play together without that mutual friend.

**NaKyle: ** Hopefully the mutual friend doesn’t get too jealous. What are some of the bigger picture social challenges you’d like to tackle in the future?

Limely: I think the big one we’re aiming at is giving players a reason to strengthen the bonds they have with current connections, maybe even helping them become genuine friendships. We think there’s something compelling about a group identity as well. That group identity can attract strangers who share similar playstyles, giving players even more people to play with.

Drevarius: We also want to make sure that the friends we’re helping you make are friends you can actually have a good time playing with. That mix of group identity, similar playstyle, and a mutual friend or two could be really compelling. When I group up with friends, I feel like I’m ready to take on the world--we want more players to experience that feeling.

The three of us will hang around the comments for a bit. Hit us with your questions about League’s social systems and look for persistent chat rooms to reach live after a bit of testing!

39 Comments

Humpelstilzche9/17/2015, 12:12:44 PM12 votes

I have a few questions about this (in addition to my other post .), especially about the user limit for these chats:

  • Why do these chats have such a low user limit? Technical reasons? What is the thought process behind that decision?
  • How will you deal with people who complain about their chatroom name being taken (for example for groups that already exist and are known under this name)?
  • Is it, theoretically (!), possible to increase the user limit for certain groups?
  • Is it, theoretically (!), possible to increase the amount of chatrooms you can administer?

I am asking because this will have an impact on several projects of the Volunteers. For example we have a gaming community called "Liga der Gentlemen" (=League of Gentlemen) which is focused on good behavior (=you flame once and you get kicked). This group is kind of successfull (>5000 members) but always had problems with the client chatrooms. The chatrooms are the main tool to find people for a match of League, but are often disturbed by trolls, scammers or banned members who seek revenge. I guess it's understandable that moderated private chatrooms are sort of our holy grail, we wanted this for years and it's the solution for our most urgent problems. But given our size of over 5000 members these chatrooms won't help us as much as they could with a higher limit. Of course we don't need 5000 spots (some of these 5000 are inactive and the remaining ones are not necessarily online at the same time), but at least 300-500 would be really nice.

The same goes for other projects like our "New player mentoring" and I am sure there are a lot more community projects that would profit from bigger private chatrooms. I am sure you guys have your reasons for limiting the numbers....but I would like to know them if you are allowed to tell me. I hate not understanding stuff :(

Greetings from the german volunteer team ! (imagine 60 people waving at you)

edit: Almost forgot to mention that also the european Battleground Tournaments would be a lot easier to manage by Riot and the Adjudicators if we had bigger private chatrooms (I think they would need 130 spots).

Daen9/16/2015, 11:46:40 PM3 votes

So, overall: This has been my single biggest desire within the League of Legends social atmosphere for years, and it's incredibly exciting to me that we may finally have a legitimate place to maintain clans and other types of communities. That being said, I have some questions:

Social Systems

  1. What are some of the projects you are interested in pursuing under the umbrella of social systems?

  2. Would something like player volunteer systems (e.g. Emissaries of the League) be part of your wheelhouse?


Persistent Chat Rooms

  1. Does the name for a chat room need to be unique from all other chat rooms, or does the player login identifier suffice?

  2. What will happen to existing chat rooms with established userbases and purpose?

  3. Will the persistent chat rooms still be found by knowing the name and typing it in, or would the display name of the creator be used instead?

  4. Will there be a way to browse persistent chat rooms?

  5. Is the user limit the same as current chat rooms?


Thanks!

SoundChaosDebug9/16/2015, 11:42:42 PM2 votes

The rare red post

Jungled9/16/2015, 11:33:08 PM2 votes

I really like this system. Good job guys!

DrCyanide9/17/2015, 12:43:25 AM1 votes

This might be slightly off topic, but I feel like the underlying tech is related, so I'm going to fire away.

Right now, it's common for me to make a group of fewer than 5 and queue up in normals. Sometimes we don't have the luxury of having voice chat open, so we have to rely on the group chat. Some problems I've noticed with said chat:

  • If you're typing something in the lobby, and the lobby owner hits Play, you lose everything you've typed. (including the chat history from the lobby)
  • If you're typing in the group chat and the accept notice comes up, you lose what you were typing when you get into champion select.
  • You can't use the group chat while you're at the champion select screen, as the group chat disappears. This is problematic if you need to continue a conversation or change a plan that doesn't involve your newly added teammates.
  • Your previous group chat is gone when someone dodges in champion select.
  • You lose the chat once again when someone declines the match or cancels the search.

In my mind, these chats should be more persistent than they are. By any chance are they covered by these changes?

ModAcademy Kayn9/17/2015, 1:11:42 AM1 votes

Is there a Riot EuwKyle?

wizard poker9/17/2015, 1:32:00 AM1 votes

You mention spambots as something unwanted, but what about bots that provide functionality to the community. Could the upgraded chat rooms come with developer tools to help make chatbots similar to Nightbot, Moobot, etc on Twitch?

The current group chat system currently uses XMPP, will this continue in the upgraded chats, and can we be given info on how to join them in 3rd party chat clients?

Lady Septimus9/17/2015, 2:14:39 AM1 votes

Can we report people who send offensive messages or are harassing us through messages now in client?

Garrotte9/17/2015, 9:14:51 AM1 votes

If these chatrooms begin to have success, is there a possibility of streamlining game invitations to members within the same chatroom, ala when you select what rank team you want to create a lobby for?

ComanderRex9/17/2015, 11:37:22 AM1 votes

As a collegiate organizer I'm so happy to see this! While we already have some methods, (like a TeamSpeak and FB group chat) this make the process even quicker in setting up matching or just grabbing some players for normals from our club.

Thanks for the update everyone!

Zorasterful9/17/2015, 12:54:37 PM1 votes

Looks great.

I haven't checked the PBE version because I don't have access so it may be fixed, but one thing has kept me from autojoining chat rooms in the past: the sounds from it. It's impossible to turn off sounds just from one chat room. I need/want sounds in the client overall (if I'm messaged, if I need to accept the game, etc.) but having a chat room where sounds play when players join or say something means my computer is often pinging a ton when I have no current interest in the chat room.

All that is a way of saying: Can we have the option to turn off sounds for chat rooms either in general or (even better) one by one?

Thank you!

GhastlyGhoulMan9/17/2015, 2:15:51 PM1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot NaKyle,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=vekgp8za,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-09-16T23:32:05.501+0000) We think there’s something compelling about a group identity as well. That group identity can attract strangers who share similar playstyles


So now all the Fizz and Riven mains can make their own group... and now the Teemo Cultists can spring forth from the shadows and begin their unholy conquest as a unified army...

Illuminati confirmed to work for Riot.

Declined1/19/2016, 1:54:01 PM1 votes

Pardon my (very) late arrival to this thread, but I have some questions, as it is very difficult to assimilate knowledge posted here and on PBE. ‹(^_^)› I'm slightly concerned that there will be a discussion on PBE only, that will prevent a large subset of players from participating.

##Info

  • "Persistent Chatrooms" have been/will be upgraded to "Clubs".
  • You're going to great lengths to make it part of your social system, using 'tags' which you can even flaunt in game.
  • You can own 1 chatroom and be part of 3 (subject to change)
  • User limit is subject to change depending on tech and server.
  • You plan on reserving room names.

##Uncertainty

  • Existing current chatrooms will (not) be changed¿?
  • Club sizes.
  • The amount of clubs you can be part of.
  • Clubs vs Chatrooms not enough info to determine differences if any???!
  • Tag sizes vs club name length

##Questions

  • Existing 'public' chatrooms, what is the current plan regarding those?
  • Is there or will there be more than one type of chatroom/club?
  • What will happen to lesser known chatrooms that are now an integrated part of the League community, such as pwr?
  • What will happen to the current chatrooms previously known as 'public' chatrooms?
    • ("Noob", "Looking for Group" and "Strategy" obviously it depends on the server what those room names are.
    • 'unchanged' = free to join, filled with spambots and no moderation.
    • You're planning on reserving names, does that mean we'll be unable to access those rooms until you sort out what to do with them?
  • Can I join a club as long as I know the name, or do I have to be invited?
  • Social factor: 'tags' what if the club relies heavily on security through obscurity COUGHpwrCOUGH and members of that club flaunt the tag, is there any way to disable that before it rolls out?
  • You want us to play with friends? That's great.... but a previous system you put in place contradicts that.
    • The Honor Initiative, if you have a ribbon and would like to maintain it, you need to gain honor regularly from a variety of sources or the value of the honor you receive decreases significantly if you receiving them from the same people over and over and over.
  • Will you add the swearfilter to room/club names?

Would it be possible for you to create an updated post/thread on this subject to elaborate and/or clarify some of these questions and uncertainties?

Sources Persistent Chats Upgraded Thread on PBE Persistent Chatrooms thread on PBE.

MrLittleThor9/17/2015, 12:15:28 AM1 votes

Will there be a team checking on how people are using the system? Because from my many years on the internet I expect people to abuse their powers over a chatroom.

MrLittleThor9/17/2015, 12:29:51 AM1 votes

Follow-up question. Are chatrooms going to be staying the same size or increasing?

AscendedxBlade9/17/2015, 12:35:17 AM1 votes

Great work guys this might even bring back the coaching rooms they had in season 3 learned so much from them. also while i found a red post i wanted to as one quick question who does the balancing. i wanted to ask as they balance for the pro side if they are not challanger them-self how do they know it will work or be fair to the champ and the players.