How do you feel when you run out of mana during a teamfight/1x1 trade

YumaS2Astral·Mar 13, 2016·48 votes·3,747 views

http://i.imgur.com/Z1GJOgv.jpg

63 Comments

Tempura KingMar 13, 201610 votes

Energy,fury and garen champs be like: "Mana? What's that useless thing?"

YumaS2AstralMar 13, 20166 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tempura King,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=QaG6GIm7,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-03-13T20:04:45.068+0000)

Energy,fury and garen champs be like: "Mana? What's that useless thing?"

It is way easier to run out of energy, especially if you don't manage it properly (by using the skills that can restore energy) and champions that use health as a cost like Aatrox, Vladimir, and Zac, actually have to worry about the fact that they are essentially "killing themselves" each time they cast a spell

iUseMyCajonasMar 13, 20161 votes

As a Zac and Vladimir main, I can safely say that Zac's self damage is non-existent essentially if you know how to play him,add that on top of the fact that your HP regen is one of the highest in the game and the items you're buying increase it even more. And Vlad's self damage only hurts until you get hextech. Not sure about Aatrox.

Vistha KaiMar 13, 201611 votes

You can literally use up all your energy in one combo and be useless for the next 10+ seconds.

Tempura KingMar 13, 20162 votes

Who uses qwer all at once w/o aa? You can always use a skill first then aa then q+w combo then aa etc. Wut?

Vistha KaiMar 13, 20162 votes

Unless you are Lee Sin, how does it help you to regain energy, hm?

HoodwinkMar 14, 20161 votes

It can give you intervals to regain energy. (i.e. Getting off the 3-mark passive with Kennen for a stun)

Vistha KaiMar 14, 20162 votes

Kennen's passive is like taking 1 second of one of his cooldowns.

It's non-existent unless you stun like 3+ people with your ult or waste all your basic abilities on minions.

LauchmelderMar 13, 20165 votes

Tell me more about how hard Energy management is while I sit here with an actual champion using mana.

Vistha KaiMar 13, 201618 votes

Mana is an issue early and nearly a non-factor later. Energy is a nigh static resource that requires short-term management at all stages of the game.

Sorry to shatter your beliefs.

macromiteMar 13, 20162 votes

mana causes issues throughout the game really, because it influences build to use less effective damage options just to not have to deal with the incredible issue. with a problem in that if you don't get the options you become one combo and then auto attacks until you back.

Vistha KaiMar 14, 20167 votes

Making things up. How cute.

item 3040 - 140 AP on average. item 3027 - 120 AP (80 immediately). item 3174 - 60 AP, 25 MR and 20% CDR. item 3165 - 80 AP and 20% CDR. (Personally I don't consider this item a "mana" one, but people vouch for it. Oh, well.)

macromiteMar 14, 20161 votes

ahem

tear, less effective immediately and can effect into late game depending on how early you get it.

roa is weaker early and stronger late.

both of these can give more than one combo, but they both have timing strings attached, which causes ripples through the game because they need to be alive to reap the rewards that are the great stats that you mentioned.

60 ap and 80 ap are both pretty ineffectual this day and age. 80 is just barely scratching on the situational margin, and they both greatly impact a magers damage output because those slots could be filled with better stats. 20% cdr is nice, but there is at least on ad option that gives more competitive stats.

keep in mind, i'm not arguing that these items are useless, they aren't they give a bit, i'm arguing that because they aren't immediately as powerful as ad items that they cause ripples that create a gap between a mages late game and an ad champions late game.

and also, just a note incase you didn't notice, i specified that the one combo is without these items.

StealthWardenMar 14, 20164 votes

roa is weaker early and stronger late.

lets not forget it starts with just as much ap as the any other mana item before it ramps into one of the highest ap items in the game....its not exactly a moment of weakness.

Vistha KaiMar 14, 20163 votes

The fact ADs can cap their CDR with 2 or 3 cheap items is a whole different issue.

and also, just a note incase you didn't notice, i specified that the one combo is without these items.

It's like saying Zed has no damage, because he builds no AD. Completely irrelevant.

macromiteMar 14, 20161 votes

it is relevant, completely relevant. with no mana item and pure ap you're one combo does more damage, however with mana you can use your combo more than once reliably.

it's more akin to saying that zed can use his abilities more if he builds cdr.

Vistha KaiMar 14, 20163 votes

Yes, without mana one combo does more damage, but the difference is negligible. What, 40 AP if you buy Athene's instead of the next item?

You are saying having to get a mana item like one of those I mentioned is a bad thing.

It is not.

Quite the opposite, since most if not all AP mana items provide higher than average AP or make up for the difference of it with CDR.

macromiteMar 14, 20161 votes

you know, i don't think i feel like arguing with you. you clearly have no capacity to shifting your view, and i can't be bothered to talk to a rock, so please, if you will, stop arguing with people on the boards. you don't understand. you can't be helped. no one wants to deal with you.

Vistha KaiMar 14, 20161 votes

First take the beam out of your own eye.

I hate my ADCMar 15, 20161 votes

item 3070 item 3010 item 3028 Versus item 3155 item 3133 item 3134

Sure, later in the game, AP items are fine. But the snowball start early. You don't get any cheap AP damage item that build into something big beside Armguard.

And don't get me started on the shoes nonsense... item 1001 + item 1042 + 500g = item 3006 Versus + 800g = item 3020

ExtviaMar 15, 20161 votes

The cost on both boots are the same btw

I hate my ADCMar 15, 20162 votes

Duh. The nonsense here is that you can get a Dagger if you can't afford the 800 gold for Berserker's Greaves unlike Sorcerer Shoes where you need to drop the 800 gold upfront to get the boots.

Vistha KaiMar 15, 20161 votes

AP items are fine in their own right.

What's not right is how AD items got unreasonably buffed.

SairentosutokaMar 14, 20167 votes

hate to break it to ya but if you are playing an enemy champion and don't have any energy you are either missing your abilities or you suck

All energy champions have a mechanic in their abilities so at no point int he game will you every not have energy. mana is a problem 0-20mins after that its not a huge deal but you still have to manage. energy champions are just as easy as cooldown champions in manangment since they have auto energy refills built into their kit.

AIIanMar 14, 20165 votes

Looks like someone here never played Kennen.

poppyisbestgirlMar 16, 20161 votes

Kennen has a energy regain in his e when he passes through something*[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]*

AIIanMar 16, 20161 votes

Sure. 40 energy. That's not even half of the cost of the skill until rank 5, and you're probably upgrading it last tho.

I'm not saying it's impossible to properly manage his energy level, but you'll have trouble if you find yourself utilizing it improperly. Meanwhile, when I'm playing Fiora, I more often than not forget that I have a ressource as soon as laning phase, and I'm not even running mana regen runes or mastery.

Vistha KaiMar 14, 20161 votes

Or enemies may not allow you to use the energy return mechanic.

Zed - stay outside his shadow. Lee Sin - don't allow him to basic attack you. Kennen - don't get hit three times in a row, even if, it's still mere 25 energy. Shen - he has so stupidly high costs, energy return is irrelevant anywhere but when taunting 5 people at once. Akali - well, this one it tougher to play aganist.

LauchmelderMar 14, 20161 votes

{quoted}

hate to break it to ya but if you are playing an enemy champion and don't have any energy you are either missing your abilities or you suck

All energy champions have a mechanic in their abilities so at no point int he game will you every not have energy. mana is a problem 0-20mins after that its not a huge deal but you still have to manage. energy champions are just as easy as cooldown champions in manangment since they have auto energy refills built into their kit.

Just leaving this here.

Vistha KaiMar 14, 20161 votes

It's not as easy as the guy from the quote makes it to be.

For example Zed has to hit an enemy with both basic and mimicked ability. Every competent person will not allow themselves to get hit by two Shadow Slashes and Shurikens are impossible to double hit outside his shadow range.

Shen has energy regen on two abilities, but both are very miniscule and hard to make use of. For reference Shadow Dash doesn't even pay for itself without hitting 5 enemies.

Kennen has one tied to his passive stun, but it's only mere 25 energy in 1v1 situation and doesn't even make up for a third of energy he has to use to proc it.

Lee has it the easiest. After every ability cast his next two basic attacks will refund energy, meaning Lee will never run out of energy if he manages his passive correctly.

Akali again has it's easy, since she only has to attack a target her point'n'click ability hit.

FaustavianMar 14, 20162 votes

Blue buff tho

Vistha KaiMar 14, 20161 votes

Oh, boy. How will I counter that.

Blue buff also works on energy.

AstôlfoMar 14, 20163 votes

Tell me more about your shitty baseless argument while I sit here with logic.

LauchmelderMar 14, 20161 votes

Try again with an actual argument

AstôlfoMar 14, 20162 votes

Maybe you should take your own words to heart :)

LauchmelderMar 14, 20161 votes

Oh, let me get this straight: If you run out of energy you have to wait a whole 10 seconds for it to be full again? Oh my god, how weak are energy based Champions?

Meanwhile if you are out of MANA you have to wait for a TINY bit longer than a mere 10 seconds to be able to even cast one spell or you back.

Thus mana is harder to handle than energy

AstôlfoMar 14, 20164 votes

Nice incomplete logic there kiddo. Good job completely conveniently ignoring the flaws to energy. A single spam burst or fight and you'll be out of energy. With mana, you'll still have a large amount left over in literally any point past laning/early unless you're just a failure at managing anything in general. Energy is better in early and for a single burst. Mana is better in pretty much everywhere else because it gives more and has more sustain. Try not making such a terrible argument next time. :)

LauchmelderMar 14, 20161 votes

I see you Need to get aggressive to argue. Way to lose an Argument.

Vistha KaiMar 14, 20162 votes

He lost it with the attitude, not with arguments, which happen to be facts.

LauchmelderMar 14, 20161 votes

No fact seen

Vistha KaiMar 14, 20163 votes

Energy requires constant management and can't be itemized. Mana requires Athene's and you forget about it completely.

Thus you are full of it.