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133 Comments

500000000000000026 votes

This is one reason why I stopped watching brofresco. Something along the lines of "my Q does X damage, W does X damage, so I do total of Y damage? That's more than enemy HP so I should be able to oneshot them"

Except he's ignoring all the damage amps, AAs, and resistances and inevitably fucks up

Verxint61 votes

Watching Brofresco in the first place is already a mistake.

Melledoneus6 votes

Agreed. I'm surprised people watch him at all.

BananaSlayerAMO7 votes

When Brofresco is getting more hate than tyler1...

Clementine11 votes

As he should be. Tyler1 is fun as fuck to watch

BananaSlayerAMO7 votes

Then maybe I should rephrase: why are people hating on Brofresco so much when he's basically harmless and doesn't do anything offensive?

Clementine16 votes

He's just annoying and has cringy clickbaity titles. Same as Nightblue

BladeSteel10 votes

Honestly NB3's clickbait titles are just a joke. if you watch some of his videos he refers to the joke. However bronzefresco tilts me so hard watching the stupid mistakes he makes in his videos. like his talon one (right when he got reworked). He was under their turret dying right next to a wall...could have easily e'd over it. instead he walks the long way and dies to tower. when 20 sec before that he was talking about how cool "parkour was"

Blåbæret1 votes

No one really cares what you think. You guys should be better than shit-talking a guy just trying to make videos for a living in a public discourse for no reason.

Jealousy I suppose.

Glory ln Death5 votes

Nobody is saying anything about him as a person. We're criticizing his content, marketing strategy, and general lack of skill at the game.

Is it also wrong for me to say "I don't like how Coke tastes, and their commercials are so cheesy and dumb."? I guess I'm just jealous of them.

Blåbæret1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Glory ln Death,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=Jsj7izRj,comment-id=000000000001000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2017-03-27T15:49:39.736+0000)

Nobody is saying anything about him as a person. We're criticizing his content, marketing strategy, and general lack of skill at the game.

Is it also wrong for me to say "I don't like how Coke tastes, and their commercials are so cheesy and dumb."? I guess I'm just jealous of them.

You seem extremely salty. You don't have to be good at the game to showcase it - what kind of extreme fallacy is that? Need to go back to the school bench bud. Don't like YouTube and their ways? Don't go there. I guess that's too much to ask since you still apparently watch his videos. Go figure #lul

Glory ln Death6 votes

"Just because he's bad at the game and has low-quality, click bait videos which provide no productive information or entertainment doesn't mean your allowed to offer criticism on his product." What was that you were saying about extreme fallacy? I guess my opinion on a product is invalid and shouldn't be expressed. Although, that brings up the question of why you are breaking your own rule and expressing a negative opinion towards the people in this discussion. We're just a bunch of people trying to express an opinion that we share. You should be better than trying to attack us for no reason.

And, no, I don't watch Brofresco anymore - I stopped about a year ago when I realized that Surrender@20 and the official Champion Reveals for new champions provided more and higher quality information about new champions, and didn't include a double dose of cringe.

Glory ln Death4 votes

Seriously. My biggest issue was - would it kill him to actually read through ability descriptions even once before jumping into a game?

It's fine for him to read the description out loud for the audience, but when that is clearly the first time he's even glanced at the kit? Really? He doesn't need to be an expert with new champions, but he shouldn't finally realize what an ability does 25 minutes into the video.

Facepalm.

theminiom1 votes

moreso than nightblue

Troll for Trump3 votes

Because it does = 1.25 Effective HP?

Pierce The Veal23 votes

{quoted}

Because it does = 1.25 Effective HP?

Triggered.

You are dealt 25% less damage, which isn't the same as 25% more hp.

100%hp/100%damage=1 125%hp/100%damage=1.25 incorrect! 100%hp/75%damage= 1.33 CORRECT!

25% damage reduction is the same as 33% bonus effective HP in this case.

Troll for Trump1 votes

Hp = 1 Dmg (0% reduc) = 1

1-1(0%reduc) = 0

Hp = 1 Dmg(25% reduc) = 0.75 1-0.75(25% reduc) = 0.25 remaining

If you do it your way, 0.25 is 1/3 of the 0.75. That makes it 1/3, or 0.33. But that's only in comparison with the dmg at 0.75.

It should be compared with the dmg at 1. You will need to take 0.25, and 0.25 of 1 is 25%.

You're taking an extra 0.25 of dmg in comparison to your total health pool, an extra 25%, so the effective hp is 1.25.

The 1.33 is only done in comparison to the total dmg dealt, and not the effective Hp.

When you input that formula, you don't use effective Hp.

1.33 = incorrect

Khâmul1 votes

There's a problem with your reasonning. I have 1 000 000 health and the enemy inflicts 1 damages without reduction. If i take account of the reduction, will it means i have 25% more hp? not at all. You'll need to consider the amount of damages needed to kill you. Here, you go from 1 000 000 hits to 1 333 333 to kill. So I have a 33% bonus HP. Get it?

Troll for Trump1 votes

Think of it like this:

You can take 1.33x of the dmg if you have 25% dmg reduc

But you can tank 1.25x more of the dmg with 25% dmg reduc

I posted this below too.

With 25% dmg reduc:

For argument's sake, you have 1,000,000 hp , assume the enemy does 1,000,000 dmg in one attack without any dmg reduction.

Now, they only do 750,000 in one attack. They need 250,000 more to kill you.

This is the part which I explained to DracoMTA above.

33% of 750,000 is 250,000. That's the 250,000 needed to kill you.

Thus, they need to do 1.33x the dmg they would normally need to do to kill you.

250,000 is still 25% of your hp. With the 250,000 "extra" you gained from surviving that hit, you have 1.25x the effective HP. You're tanking 1.25x worth of the dmg you would have normally been taking.

I have 1 000 000 health and the enemy inflicts 1 damages without reduction

You wouldn't be having 1.33x the hp in that scenario either.

Meep Man4 votes

https://media.giphy.com/media/3xz2BLBOt13X9AgjEA/giphy.gif

Sorry dude, but he explained it perfectly and you still don't get it, so I'll just leave this be.

easy example, someone hits you four times for 100 damage. You lose 400 HP: 100 + 100 + 100 + 100 = 400

with 25% reduction to damage this becomes 100 * .75 = 75 four times: 75 + 75 + 75 + 75 = 300

So your effective hp is 400/300 or 4/3 or 1.33

This is the perfect explanation right here. If you still don't get it, you never will until someone you trust with knowledge more tells you otherwise.

Troll for Trump1 votes

Sorry, but I do get it. It makes sense.

It works, but it also doesn't.

The fact that you think I disagree with it means you haven't read what I wrote at all, and are just skimming it.

They need to do 1.33x the dmg to kill you.

I EVEN provided the math to show you that.

Yes, you do take 1.33x the dmg.

But your effective hp is 1.25.

If you don't get it, you never will until someone you trust with knowledge tells you otherwise.

Posting a gif of something doesn't make what you said any more valid.

ƒrenet ƒrame4 votes

Holy shit. Shut the hell up. I don't think I've ever read a more triggering post in my life. Like, I'm trying not to be toxic, but WTF IS THIS LOGIC. Firstly, effective health points will always equal the amount of damage needed to kill you. If your effective hp is x1.25 what it normally is, then it would take x1.25 the damage to kill you. That's what effective health is. The health points that an enemy would need to deal in damage to kill you after factoring in resistances and reductions. You are stating you need x1.33 the damage to kill you with your effective hp being x1.25. In reality, that would result in an overkill of x0.08. In this scenario, the x1.33 is correct, but your calculations are too low regarding effective health. This is a fact: "Effective burst health, commonly referred to just as effective health, describes the amount of raw burst damage a champion can receive before dying in such a short time span that he remains unaffected by any form of health restoration."^1 As shown from the definition above, effective health IS the damage you need to receive to die. They can't ever be different.

If you have 1000 health, and take 1000 damage, it gets reduced to 750. You then go on to say that the remaining 250 means that you have 125% effective health since 250 is 25% of 1000. That is incorrect. The 250 hp you have is still having damage reduction applied to it so it still isn't effective health. You are assuming that there isn't damage reduction being applied. For example, if you were to take another 250 damage (the remaining 25% of the 125% health) you wouldn't be dead. Damage reduction would apply and result in you only taking 187.5 damage. This would result with you having 62.5 actual health remaining.

When doing these calculations, you start with 1000 HP in actual health. This isn't effective health, this isn't the amount of damage you have to take, this is what the screen will display. The remaining 250 HP after the initial calculation (1000-1000X0.75) is actual health as well; the actual health remaining is irrelevant to this argument. This comment was about effective health, and with damage reduction, it would take 333 further damage to deplete the remaining 250 HP (250-333X75=0). Therefore, the total damage you take is 1333, and that makes the damage you need to take x1.33 the amount you need without reductions. This also makes your effective health x1.33 times the original simply by definition of effective health.

I understand that the boards are meant for discussion about different people's opinions and beliefs. This is math though. Opinions and beliefs are irrelevant. What I am saying is fact. The effective health with 25% damage reduction is 133% of your original health (much more simply calculated as 100/(1-0.25)). No argument. If you don't have a deep understanding of mathematics, I would encourage you to stay away from trying to argue in these boards. They just fill it with incorrect statements which further make new players uninformed. Stick to the "zed is broken boards" (this is a meme, don't get triggered by it.) Sorry for being forceful in my argument, but it's just disrespectful to someone who studies math, to see people ruin its beauty.

^1 http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Health

Meep Man1 votes

You are incorrect. Say the enemy deals 1 damage per basic attack and you take 100% of the damage and have 1000 health. 1000 basic attacks later, you die. Now, somehow, you gain 25% damage reduction, making the enemy deal 0.75 damage per basic attack against your 1000 health pool. How many times does 0.75 go into 1000? That is how much effective health you have and that would turn out to be 1333.33333333333333333333333 repeating infinitely, but more simply it would be a 33% increase in health, making your effective health pool 1333.

Troll for Trump1 votes

It doesn't. You can't reduce anything from 1. It rounds to 1 as a minimum.

But, let's assume it does.

Yes, he does need to do 1.33x the dmg, but you're tanking 1.25x the amount of shots.

Without any dmg reduction, you're taking 1000 basic attacks of 1 dmg each

With 25% dmg reduction, you take 1000 attacks of 0.75, and live with 250.

250 is 25% of the starting hp of 1000

That's how much you'll survive with. If he does more than 1000 attacks, the cases are different.

You now have 1.25x the HP.

After his 1000 attacks, anything else that happens to the HP is out of this "system;" he will only attack 1000 times. If he attacks more than that, the same would need to be done in the calculations without dmg reduc, which would result in an impossible negative value.

You take a round of 1000 attacks and survive with 0.25 of your 1000 hp. The remaining hp you lost which would've killed you normally counts as 1, because it'd normally be 1000 hp.

Melledoneus6 votes

You forgot to add resistances.

Troll for Trump6 votes

That would just add a lot of extra math. You'd end up with a %reduc of (magic/phys dmg) = 25% modified by MR or Armor, depending on whichever is calculated first.

The number you'd end up with would be a net %dmg reduc of some number.

In the end, it's still some percent of a number.

It may not be 25% total reduction, but it's still some X% reduction

Melledoneus2 votes

I'm pretty sure there's a calculator online for this.

Troll for Trump3 votes

Do we REALLY need to make it overly complicated?

It's really unnecessary :/

Sraeg20131 votes

You don't have to do the math. Nobody is forcing you.

But when you do, don't say crap like "2+2=5" and excuse it with "iz hurd!"

Troll for Trump3 votes

Stop... trying to just farm upvotes by jumping on the bandwagon.

You are just looking for my comments and replying to them as you jump down,as seen in the first comment you posted in responce.

Anyways, no one really wants to calculate res/armor resistances. It just produces an arbitrary percentage.

Even the OP and other people agree with it.

That's just an annoying process.

What values would you assign for the armor/mr?

The net percentage just ends up being 25+x%

Don't bother with it, assume x is 0% (by not taking into account mr/armor) and you're fine.

Sraeg20131 votes

Stop... trying to just farm upvotes by jumping on the bandwagon.

I'm two accounts too late to give a flying crap about upvotes.

Anyways, no one really wants to calculate res/armor resistances. It just produces an arbitrary percentage.

Then why do you do it?

Even the OP and other people agree with it.

Logical.

That's just an annoying process.

Agreed, there are more important things going on durning a game.

The net percentage just ends up being 25+x%

Well, almost ever number could be described with "25+X%".

Don't bother with it, assume x is 0% (by not taking into account mr/armor) and you're fine.

That's a huge generalization. And unacceptable one at that.

For example against a full build mage the difference between a level 18 Vayne with no MR/HP items and Vayne with Spirit Visage is about 1350 EHP which is a 71% increase.

Sure you don't have to know exact numbers, but knowing how it is calculated allows you to eye-ball results pretty accurately.

Troll for Trump2 votes

Then why do you do it?

I didn't. Neither did anyone else.

Yet you post this, and, in the same post, criticize me about NOT doing it.

That's a huge generalization. And unacceptable one at that.

For example against a full build mage the difference between a level 18 Vayne with no MR/HP items and Vayne with Spirit Visage is about 1350 EHP which is a 71% increase.

Sure you don't have to know exact numbers, but knowing how it is calculated allows you to eye-ball results pretty accurately.

Ok, congrats, you are now arguing with everyone. I'll leave them to explain this one: Here's another

These two are the people I'm "arguing against" and they agree with it. Everyone does.

Khâmul3 votes

It doesn't matter. You can just consider the state with armor/mr as the initial state then add 25% reduction (let's say from an ability). The complexity of the problem won't change

Meep Man2 votes

Let's not add too many layers here. People are already confused.

Melledoneus2 votes

Let's also consider masteries now.

Meep Man3 votes

Fine, while we are at it, let's also be sure to register in shields, heals, passive health regeneration per second, flat reductions, crit chance, and whether the target has Grievous Wounds or not. Heck, might as well throw in spaghetti code and the possibility of in-game bugs as well.

Melledoneus2 votes

Now we're talking! Next let's explore the possibility of chugging a health potion during the period in which damage is taken.

Meep Man1 votes

What if I bought a Corrupting Potion, used it in base, sold it, bought a bunch of health potions, and then also entered a fight with them?

Melledoneus3 votes

Sorry, all potion healing effects dissipate immediately in fountain.

Troll for Trump1 votes

Think of it like this:

You can take 1.33x of the dmg if you have 25% dmg reduc

But you can tank 1.25x more of the dmg with 25% dmg reduc

Meep Man4 votes

{quoted}

Think of it like this:

You can take 1.33x of the dmg if you have 25% dmg reduc

But you can tank 1.25x more of the dmg with 25% dmg reduc

Those two statements are exactly the same, except one is false. Tanking damage and taking damage are the exact same things.

Wolfeur2 votes

With your reasoning, you would have 2× effective HP with 100% damage reduction…

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

Think of it like this:

You can take 1.33x of the dmg if you have 25% dmg reduc

But you can tank 1.25x more of the dmg with 25% dmg reduc

Uh, Ok?

Troll for Trump1 votes

See above.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

See above.

Your math is wrong man. You're killing me with your "logic."

Troll for Trump1 votes

Not...the brightest one, are you?

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

Not...the brightest one, are you?

20 people tell you your math is wrong, and I'm not the brightest one? Lmao talk about delusional. You should really continue taking your dementia meds.

Troll for Trump1 votes

It's not just math.

If you say my math is wrong, you're saying your math is wrong.

Because my math got 1.33x.

My math got 1.25x too, as well, and I showed how the two are related.

The math we do is the same, the logic is what different.

Turns out, I was overthinking it.

But the math isn't wrong.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

It's not just math.

If you say my math is wrong, you're saying your math is wrong.

Because my math got 1.33x.

My math got 1.25x too, as well, and I showed how the two are related.

The math we do is the same, the logic is what different.

Turns out, I was overthinking it.

But the math isn't wrong.

Turns out, your math might not ve wrong, but the way you were expressing it was wrong, thus I assumed your math was wrong. Sorry, communication is important, this is what happens when you miscommunicate.

Troll for Trump1 votes

Yeah, mb, sorry.

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