Are Berserker's Greaves worth buying anymore?[With suggestions for change]

Knight Devout·Mar 4, 2014·3 votes·982 views

Title says it. Since the AS nerf(In early season 3 AFAIK, it was nerfed to 20% down to 25%), I find those boots to be far behind the other options in term of efficiency, and they are occasionally replaced by Ionian Boots of Lucidity by champions who can make use of the cooldown reduction, such as Lucian. While I don't think that Boots should be a mandatory upgrades, especially for the role of ADC which already suffers from a narrow itemization, I think that those boots could perhaps be changed to be more compelling , and perhaps to fit better into the adc necessity.

One of the biggest issue that I see at the moment, is that it's never the right moment to upgrade boots, because even if they are cost efficient, the 20% attack speed and the 25 movespeed aren't really appealing, especially when an ADC often runs a Zeal that already grants movespeed.

On the other hand, BG have the advantage of being fairly cheap. Their cost is just 900 gold , which is 100 less than Ionian's boots of lucidity, and 200 less than Sorcerer's shoes.

However, considering that ADC are a laner with a steady gold income from cs just like top and mid, I think the cost could be a good starting point to tinker to improve bg or to steer them in another direction (I.E: add different stats).

What's in your opinion a stats that could be useful for adc in a item that should be useful for the largest possible pool of adc? I already know that Riot expressed negatively against Armor Pen boots in the past due to bruisers potentially getting an unneeded buff, and I think that extra AD would hardly fit in an item that is already cost efficient without increasing the cost too much.

I'd personally explore possibilities for an extra passive, that costs no more than 200 gold, and that could be useful for ADC , not necessarily early game. The live version with just attack speed is not bad, but I think it's a little too plain, and that it could be spiced up to work better with the adc role . I'm not talking of a gigantic buff of course, since we are always talking of tier 2 boots that already grant attack speed, just something different from attack speed to further increase the effect of buying boots at the right time, as it happens with other boots . (Like Ninja Tabi can save you from an autoattack focused toplaner, or mercury threads help you survive a Sejuani's gank).

My suggestions are in the pool, but I'd like to discuss if someone has better ideas, or thinks that the live version with 20% attack speed but a cheap price is better.

20 Comments

Sire HippingtonMar 4, 20142 votes

Thx to their comparable low costs, they are still worth to get, but not that great anymore. I'd like to see them on ~1000-1100g costs with a bit more power, and a more unique mechanic than just flat AS.

Ideas for that mechanic:

-stacking AS buff on hit, Would fit the berserker theme as u get more furious the more u fight

-More AS in lower health, like a mini olaf passive

p.s. i don't like crit on them as it would make them bad for ap champs like kayle or teemo and it also would be a bit wasted on many bruisers/tanks that scale with as. we also have more than enough ms+crit+as items

Knight DevoutMar 4, 20142 votes

Mh, I can see why you want to keep Berserker focused solely on attack speed, but isn't movespeed going to be more valuable on boots? With AS on-hit it becomes really similar to Guinsoo's passive. The extra AS at lower health seems nice, but it's kinda hard to handle, especially on champions like Aatrox or Olaf would be really strong, but adc or autoattackers are so frail they don't often get low and have the comfort of living more than a few seconds.

Sire HippingtonMar 5, 20141 votes

as-onhit may be on Gynsoo's, but how often do u see it? it's sometimes seen on Jax or Kayle, but even on them not very often. It's a mechanic that would fit to any aa-based dps champ, but nearly no champ can effecktivly use the currently only item with that mechanic.

As adc, i'm often on low health while i beat the shit out of some bruisers or assasins, cause they jumped at me, took a huge chunk of my hp with their burst, but then I used my escape to get some distance, wich leavs me in following sitation: I'm lowhealth, an enemie is within my range, i'm out of his range, and his gapcloser is on cd, so i can perfectly abuse every as i get. I agree on olaf and co though, it might get to strong on some bruisers that scale well with as while profiting from low health.

also, more ms is something u either use enchantments for, or u built boots of swiftness, sacreficing the eventual of/def stats of other boots for raw ms. Why would u get boots of swiftness if u could get the same/more ms on top of as?

Knight DevoutMar 6, 20141 votes

Not saying that you are wrong, but I doubt that adding a guinsoo's effect for 200 gold on a 1100 item can be strong or satisfying, if we assume that the Guinsoo's version for it costs gives just 4% as and 4 ap for hit .

I am RazgrizMar 7, 20142 votes

I've considered it for awhile and the only thing I can think of that's not broken is adding on a stacking AS buff per hit.

So each hit (up to 5) grants 2% AS.

Most other things are not in the spirit of the item, I think this would be.

Knight DevoutMar 7, 20141 votes

And how much do you think this would be in extra gold cost? 100? 200? I'd say 100 .

I am RazgrizMar 7, 20141 votes

Which is good, +200 is too much.

Knight DevoutMar 4, 20141 votes

PS: For clarity, the third voice of the poll was supposed to be flat movespeed increase with a stacking mechanic on autoattacks .

The 2nd voice was supposed to be critical strike chance.

the4th was supposed to be critical strike damage

Only Play NidMar 5, 20141 votes

So... the third choice is the red upgrade for boots?

Knight DevoutMar 5, 20141 votes

Not quite, furor is a big % movespeed increase that fades over time but might be refreshed. What I proposed was a small , but flat, movespeed increase that can be stacked.

Furor: Hit something, get fast, lose speed gradually. Suggested passive: Hit something, get a tiny bit faster the longer you hit, but it keeps the full amount without fading over time.

Only Play NidMar 6, 20141 votes

O god... lee sin... plez no!

Knight DevoutMar 6, 20141 votes

He's getting nerfed anyway.

I am RazgrizMar 7, 20141 votes

So... item 3044

Knight DevoutMar 7, 20141 votes

Phage is good IMHO for that passive, but the trinity cost is not something all ADC are proficient with. And autoattackers like Teemo or Kayle are even more deterred by the fact that Frozen Mallet no longer upgrades from Phage. Also, Phage lasts 2 second, I though about something like 10-20-30 movespeed for at least 3 seconds .

Earl EulrichMar 4, 20141 votes

If anything they could add some on hit trigger mechanic that would reward frequently auto-attacking, like getting some small ms buff after hitting an opponent 3times in a row or sth.

But i don´t think it´s necessary to change the item...it´s a solid option to enhance autoattack dps if you don´t need anything else from your boots. Other than that the game still is missing some adcaster boots besides cdr....sth- like armorpen or ad or a mix of both boots.

Knight DevoutMar 4, 20141 votes

I think that armor pen was suggested already and that Riot answered "no", but I could be wrong. Armor Pen synergize well with adc, true, but even better with champions who already have high base damage like bruisers. I can see Lee Sin scaling fairly well with them, same with Jarvan or Vi, especially in a meta were autoattackers are not so strong to force you on Ninja Tabi.

AD would be good, but for 200 gold, more or less, the max you can get is 6-7 AD, without breaking the cost-effectiveness of the item. (BG are already cost effective, the gold to ad ratio is 36 to 1, given the price of long sword, hence why with 200 gold you should get 5.5555 ad, but not much more, considering how cheap they are to build).

LeonerdoMar 4, 20141 votes

I think the current version is best. Attack speed is actually very appropriate on boots, because your auto-attacks take less time to complete and you therefore get more time to move. Regarding the suggestions for a more interesting mechanic: It's just boots, it's not supposed to be a game-changing item. It's just supposed to be a small AS boost early/mid game to help carries round out their mid-game stats. (Since many carries start with a lot of flat AD, the 20% AS from Zerkers is actually really nice. It just seems to fit the flow of the game really well, IMO.)

Knight DevoutMar 5, 20141 votes

Well, it might be, yet, I see Zerker being delayed as long as possible, unlike other boots. On the other hand, the fact they are a low cost/low reward item is not necesarily a bad thing, perhaps it's even better this way. I just wanted to see how was the general consensus toward the item, since I'd personally like a little more power in the boots, but I cannot say I feel they are a bad choice or weak.

Rune PagesMar 4, 20141 votes

I feel if new greaves were to be released, this would be cool, for them to have a unique active.(this active specifically for more auto attack oriented champs)Unique Active: When activated the champion gains 15% +(2.5 per level) Attack Speed for 3 seconds. Then possibly nerf the ADC's attack speed items slightly to make the adc's pick between quicker attacks, or surivablity. Just a suggestion.