Why I think the "complexity" reasoning against Lee Sin and Zed nerfs is flawed

Knight Devout·1/30/2015, 6:52:43 PM·88 votes·6,423 views

Riot has recently made clear what their stance is regarding complex champions like Zed and Lee Sin. If I were to roughly summarize it, they justify their strength with the fact that their kit is hard to master and has a lot of room for error, and thus they deserve their high reward when mastered.

And here is why I think this alone cannot justify the stance, or rather, it does justify, but overall is bad for the game. League of legends is 5 years old. And it is aiming for more than 130-140 champions. With so many different champions, it's inevitable that Riot will never be able to keep them on par at the same time. In a utopian world, where even the least skilled champion has enough room to improve and mastery to rival Zed, the fact that zed is slighty ahead can be justified. In a game where we have Ryze, that argument holds no ground. it essentially means that champions that don't have that number of tools don't deserve to be mastered or played, because since their strength comes from their kit and not their player's ability, riot will nerf them once they get play. Fizz has quite some room for skill, and was hit really hard in the last patch. Basically it means that, when you decide to main a champion that is not Lee Sin, Orianna, Zed, or one of the few champions overloaded with abilites, options and tools to adapt on every situation, you have to rely on the patch balance to get ahead, and once you do , the champ gets nerfed, because it's not "your ability" is the champion. Again, it's an extreme, but it quite summarize what Riot is doing with the latest nerfs and their stance about Lee Sin and Zed.

While it's true that those kind of champion do have a higher skill ceiling, whose fault is if champions like Ryze have a lower skill ceiling? People start to play and main champions because they are captured by the theme, the feeling, the art, the voice of a champion, but it ends up being destroyed because you overleaded their kit in the start, and only later realize that his/her kit hasn't enough room for rewarding a player growth. Look at Garen. Look at Ryze. Look at Kayle. Look at a not so old champion, Diana.

It's fine to have champions who are harder than the others. It's not fine when those champions are rewarded more, because it essentially means that all efforts in learning other champions are wasted.

138 Comments

SmokingPuffin1/30/2015, 7:00:19 PM8 votes

If I were to roughly summarize it, they justify their strength with the fact that their kit is hard to master and has a lot of room for error, and thus they deserve their high reward when mastered.

I don't think this is a proper summary. I don't think that high skill cap is a necessary thing for Riot to display favoritism towards a champion, nor is low skill cap something Riot tends to punish.

I think the correct summary is: Lee and Zed are fun, healthy, and popular. Riot is comfortable giving them a long leash on questions of balance as a result.

CataclysmCrash1/31/2015, 12:55:02 AM6 votes

Nothing in this game is very mechanically complex.

But for every scenario, there are multiple actions to take. What limits your ability to take these actions are the decisions of the enemy, your own decisions, and the the things that gate your own champions ability (Resources, Cooldowns, Mobility).

If anything, champions with little to no resources, low CDs, and high mobility are the easiest to play in the game because what they can and can not do is far less restricted than other champions.

Thiend1/31/2015, 3:27:23 AM4 votes

I find it very amusing how the only person arguing against Lee Sin/Free Win and Zed nerfs has as their entire argument... that if Olaf were overpowered it wouldn't be good. That just isn't compelling. The argument is not that easier champions should ALSO be overpowered. That was never the problem. Nobody wants overpowered Olaf. We simply also dislike overpowered Lee Sin, Zed and Fizz. It doesn't matter whether a champion is easy or hard, overpowered is bad and fun for nobody but the player. Coincidentally, I have never seen anyone argue FOR the current state of Lee Sin who doesn't also play as him. "If champion X were overpowered, it wouldn't be good for game balance" is not a functional argument against Lee Sin being changed to a state of balance.

I have a short story for you here. In "Soul Caliber 2" there was a character who was extremely overpowered. You couldn't do a thing about them. Want to know the justification of everyone I ever showed that irritation to gave? "He's hard to play as." There was just one problem with that argument - if two people of equal skill play as two characters in a game, neither of which counters the other, they should be evenly matched. This was never the case, because if two people were of equal skill and one was using that character, they won.

Lee Sin is in the same state. Regardless of whether he is hard to use or easy, with two players of equal skill the Lee Sin player will win every time. Sometimes even while outnumbered. Coincidentally, it's actually for the same reason too. The character I was referring to was so much faster than anything else available that it simply couldn't be played against if the user was above a certain skill level. The same is true now of Lee Sin, because you simply cannot counter the amount of mobility he has. He can retreat from any losing fight with it being possible to do almost nothing to stop him. He can catch up to anyone. The core problem with Lee Sin isn't his incredibly overblown ratios, because make no mistake, he does NOT fall off later in the game. It's the same problem that caused boots to be changed from 50 to 25 Movespeed. For Lee Sin to actually die requires being outnumbered or making a mistake. If something cannot be beaten unless the user makes a mistake, that means that it is overpowered. What happens if neither player makes a mistake? Both have executed all of their actions perfectly. Lee Sin won. Why did he win? Because he's Lee Sin. Not because of anything his player did better than their opponent. Just because he is Lee Sin.

LaserDeathBlade1/30/2015, 7:36:37 PM2 votes

It'd be plain stupid if low skill cap champions had the same reward as high skill cap ones

Why wouldn't I just button mash all day on Katarina or something then? Oh wait, she's already top ban.

Auryiel1/30/2015, 11:47:32 PM1 votes

I mean... I could reverse your argument quite easily What would be the point of playing a champion that can be outplayed, a champion whose kit allows for massive screw-ups if you could play a much more reliable champion for the same results?

IMO, it's okay to have champions with different skill floors and ceilings and different levels of reliability, but one SHOULD pay for reliability with power and one SHOULD be rewarded for unreliability with power The problem is that, sadly, it's extremely difficult to find that balance

EfficientDynamo1/30/2015, 9:36:15 PM1 votes

I won't say I agree with this logic entirely, but at least with Zed there is an item (item 3157 ) that negates a lot of his power. It would be nice to have similar options available for other overloaded champs like Lee.

That said, being forced to buy an item to counter a champ doesn't feel good for either party, either the Zed (after you rush Zhonyas) or you (if he reaches 6 before you get zhonyas).

Ashes Arise1/31/2015, 12:03:32 AM1 votes

Riot has never said anything like this. You are putting words in their mouths then attacking them for what they never claimed.