Crystal Slash ( Q ) damage lowered to 18/28/38/48/58 from 20/32/44/56/68
Crystal Slash ( Q ) movement speed lowered to 2/3/4/5/6% from 3/4/5/6/7%
Why ? Does that mean he was to fast in jungle or what !? i jus't dont get it..
Kuronok28 votesRiot don't like him. They like more blind monks who can do everything.
If they were to take damage away from his Q, why not put it on his passive? Like this you would do the same damage if you get to proc it.
Jingerbeardman1 voteshave an opinion about lee sin? dont post it in a thread about another champ. make your own thread.
RiotRiot Sotere6 votesHe was and remains really fast in the jungle after those changes!
Skarner's pattern is evolving so that it provides more utility via the passive stun. For that extra utility he was supposed to sacrifice some damage. You'll notice not only does he stun people right now, but he murders many champions with ease.
GhostStalker9 votesThat's cool and all, but you can't nerf Skarner without nerfing Lee Sin. Lee Sin provides good utility and has huge damage AND mobility.
The fact that you aren't nerfing Lee Sin, but ARE nerfing skarner shows us that you don't have your priorities straight.
Jingerbeardman3 votesyeah I knew he was gonna need some number adjustment... didnt really expect even more damage getting taken from crystal slash though... there a chance we could see a small damage boost to fracture, about 30 base damage to all ranks? I know its mainly meant for utility but it would really help out with skarners pre 6 ganks.
XuWarrior2 votesMeanWhile Lee : can do anything better , faster and no Nerfs ?
Dicerson5 votesOh god, 10 less base damage at max Q and 1% less movespeed!?!?
SKARNER IS SO USELESS NAO ERMAGHERDIOAWYERFUAI((OEH
/sarcasm
The Red Warden4 votesIt isn't that he is getting nerfed but more about the concept that he is getting nerfed before lee sin is nerfed.
Jingerbeardman1 votesno its because he just received a great deal of changes and they were a tad overtuned. lee sin has nothing to do with any of this.
The Red Warden1 votesI agree on the fact that these changes won't really affect skarner, but I get agrivated when a champ with blatant weaknesses(skarner-kiting) get nerfed before a champ who is just as strong as him but has less weaknesses(lee sin)
Hyrum Graff1 votesThere's a team dedicated to whatever champ is on the table for reworks. They're following up on that rework. It's a different team (though perhaps overlapping - still, they're acting in a different capacity) than the team that's identifying champs that need changes.
IMO, old skarner needed changes, more than live lee needs changes, therefore skarner got his first. This particular change, is a follow-up, rather than an out-of-the-blue nerf, so it's not really comparable to Lee nerfs.
Does that make you feel any differently?
~Hyrum
Jingerbeardman1 votesit is easy to go back and make an alteration to recent changes from a previous patch. The knowledge is fresh and data easily accessible. So coming into a thread and spouting nonsense about other champs to derail a thread is rude to the OP and those trying to have a real discussion on the subject.
They made a pass at lee sin a few months ago and it was met with such overwhelming disdain it got pulled. there is not an easy way to tackle lee sin at this point which is why he hasnt been approached.
The Red Warden1 votesI am annoyed though since the next change to items will encourage more lee being played when he is already one of the most played champions( the reason for popularity though is because he is also one of the strongest champs). It is starting to feel like Riot wants to keep lee sin the best jungler while nerfing anyone else who even comes close to his level of strength
TheRealCoxinator1 votesSo more people are going to pick Lee because of the Tank Jungle fixes? He doesn't use mana, the only reason people MIGHT pick him for that is the ward. And it is a lot better to get a sightstone already.
Jingerbeardman1 votesits actually 3% less move speed now but thats not huge.
Nortwin3 votesIt's a 10 damage nerf. If you build him AD, there's no problem for you there. He was doing huge damage with the Q stacks. Mostly after you bought Wit's End, you won't even notice the change.
The Red Warden3 votesWhy does a champion with clear cut weaknesses (skarner-kiting, enemies that run away from him) get nerfed before a champion with barely any weaknesses( lee sin, explain his weakness please and skill cap is not an answer)
12tales1 votesHis best gapcloser can be dodged, he can be dragged by the enemy team if they dash or flash mid resonating strike, he's forced to essentially waste 800 gold early game if he wants to make use of his W, he's relatively useless in teamfight situations unless he blows flash, he lacks hard CC pre-6. His best combo is also extremely mechanically intensive, which is problematic when you're not playing on LAN/the west coast.
The Red Warden4 votesThat dodgeable gap closer is also the fastest traveling skill shot in game so it is not that hard to hit. His ult is one of the better displacement skills in teamfights so I don't understand that argument. Ping is an outside factor so I don't include that when judging champions.
The reason I am annoyed by him though is that he gets pretty much some of the best mobility in the game ( why does he need 2 gapclosers), high damage, good cc and disables, one of the easiest skill shots in the game, durabilty, nearly resourceless with his low energy costs and energy return mechanics, and a player base that way overthinks his difficulty.
12tales1 votesYeah. He's a pretty good champ. I'm just explaining what his weaknesses are.
And as an aside, I think you're kinda screwing yourself by saying Lee Sin has 'good CC' - he has a slow, and what's effectively a skillshot knockup on his ult. You run out of terms to describe champs like Nautilus pretty quickly if 'any CC' is your requirement for saying a champ has 'good CC and disables.'
And Ping is pretty relevant in this case. Maybe not if you're talking about Xin Zhao or Amumu or some crap, but trying to inSec with any noticeable latency is absurdly difficult.
The Red Warden3 votesWhat I meant about cc is the fact that he pretty much has a Nasus wither but as aoe. I think he needs nerfs though because he has an escape, an initiation, multiple gap losers, disables, mobility, sustain, high damage, ability to play almost any role, and pretty much having no punishment for wasting a skill since most of them have low cooldowns and somewhat nonexistant costs. What I mean to say is that he has a lot more in his kit than almost any other champ while also having less weaknesses than most other champions.
12tales1 votesNunu snowball would probably be a better example. Regardless~
Yeah. He's a pretty good champ. I'm just explaining what his weaknesses are.
The Red Warden2 votesCan we both agree on the fact though that Nidalee is cancer?
Terchio2 votesSkillshot knockup? With his mobility, it's basically a point-blank Alistar Headbutt with extremely high damage, and of course knockup to anyone who happens to be behind. That is not negligible CC, that basically makes Alistar who he is.
12tales1 votesObviously the point blank kick isn't a skillshot. Hitting the people behind whomever you're kicking is. Imagine playing Syndra, except whenever you try to use Scatter the Weak, the ball shifts itself to try to miss as many enemies as possible.
Terchio1 votesSo, basically a Headbutt with no need whatsoever to make a skillshot out of it, but if you would like to, yeah, sure, go ahead. It's a skill that defines Alistar without the knockup, the rest is just gravy (and all the more potent).
12tales1 votes:/
Yeah, basically a headbutt with 6-9 times as long a cooldown, except not a dash, and an ultimate, and the whole 'kick people into each other' thing. Ya got me.
Terchio1 votesHe has a dash to get in front, unlike Alistar, which means that unlike Alistar, he can get in the full kick and slow (Alistar may stun, but much shorter duration than Lee Sin's slow), and won't have to waste the headbutt on getting in range with his combo. Or he can Q his way up to the enemy, slow, then kick. He has several options, because he actually has two dash moves, unlike the cow, and while the kick may be the ultimate, it is also VERY high utility on top of utility on top of damage, AND it doesn't even waste his precious energy. I don't care if he can't kick in 10 seconds, because he'll finish me well before that.
TheRealCoxinator1 votesBecause Lee takes skill. Quite simple. Skarner has been 1v3 people with only iceborn, and SotEL. It needed to be lowered.
The Red Warden3 votesSo if a champion takes skills they are allowed to be op? You do know that is a horrible concept to balance a game on. If that is true we have to bump Cass to god tier or something? With skarner though he is pretty much Udyr, easy to kite but once he gets in close range your screwed. I am more ticked off by the fact he is getting nerfed after be ing strong for only a month, while lee sin gets to be god tier for a full 2 years
TheRealCoxinator1 votesLee Sin is only god tier because of his mobility. Skarner is a lot harder to kite than Udyr, and doesn't fall off as much as Lee. He has strong all game.
Terchio1 votesBullcrap. Skarner's entire kit is in his Q. Once he hits level 9, he flatlines for the rest of the game. He's great if he feasts, and crap if he doesn't. Kinda like everyone said they'd be trying to prevent with this new Skarner. Great job on that.
TheRealCoxinator1 votesSeems you had trouble with him in S3, too bad you haven't played him in ranked recently or at all after the changes so you just happen to know everything. Also being in bronze since S1 doesn't really help.
Terchio1 votesNo joke, he hasn't had a buff on his sticking power until he got it here and became ridiculous. Of course I dumped him. He was an autoattack fighter that needed mana, speed, power, attack speed, cooldown reduction, and probably more. Now he doesn't need the speed, doesn't need the attack speed, and can't use the power, but has insane CC to go with it. It's no wonder he's doing well now, and I will not play that joke of a champion who will never find his Zen point thanks to needing jungle due to lack of realistic sustain in lane, needs high damage Q's early in order to jungle while holding ungodly amounts of CC, and then no other kit impact aside from the ultimate. That's why I haven't used him, and will not until he gets somewhat reformed back to working.
Also, what's a Bronzie doing calling out a Bronzie? I play mostly normals, which makes me lack in the grind that has become standard in ranking up over the years. I don't prefer the playstyle of playing a champion simply because I counter that one, and would rather play who I like, and I liked Skarner. I did not do terribly well with him in Season 3, but at least I did use him. You haven't used him yet? How come? Skarner is so simple!
MackleDoge2 votesI agree that the Q needs a slight adjustment, but please don't pretend like Lee Sin is balanced. He takes skill to play really well. He doesn't take skill to play. I'm pretty bad at Lee Sin and he is still almost always a free win for me. That isn't a good sign.
TheRealCoxinator1 votesI have never seen a game where Lee is simply a free win unless the enemy team is completely bad or got ROFL stomped in the beginning of the game.
MackleDoge1 votesThen you aren't paying attention. There is absolutely no disputing that Lee is too strong right now.
TheRealCoxinator1 votesYou don't even play ranked and the only thing that you have been winning is Coop or you are against people that are completely terrible on your 3v3. Season 3 bronze, and has no idea the power of Lee Sin if you can go positive and only get a double kill while still managing to lose.
Tahalden3 votesLate-game Skarner is a beast, with his stickiness (MS bonus on Q) and his high base damage in a tanky build. These changes are probably meant to make him a little bit less punishing, especially when he's ahead.
I don't see an issue with the changes. It's just a numbers tweak. Just my opinion...
The Red Warden6 votesIt is not that skarner is getting a nerf, but more the fact that he is getting nerfed before lee sin (who is much stronger and has little to no counter play) does.
PaperMache72 votesHe's just too strong right now and needed some tuning down. This might do, but he even need even more nerfs (take it from a D3 who has like 50+ games with Skarner).
Predatorator1 votesi felt really bad when i saw that. for how much i was wondering about a good reason to nerf him (again), i still haven't find one...it's a shame
Terchio1 votesWhy was he nerfed? Well, obviously because a second movement speed buff, a 2.5 second ranged slow, and a consistent hard CC is much unhealthier than some piddly permaslow that can be outrun on initiation. Maybe now Riot can realize that he really didn't have these problems before. Or not.
Dicerson1 votesAll this talk about how Lee needs a nerf.
Has it occured to anyone that maybe Lee sin is only good if the person playing him is good? His initiate requires he lands a skillshot, his escape requires he has a safe target Not in the fight, and even so is still rather short range, and his only other ability is a slow/damage burst. If you use any of those abilities improperly, ANY of them, you are screwed.