Video proof that Thornmail is so overpowered it can kill a full build adc 100-0.

Critkeeper·Jul 11, 2014·1 votes·716 views

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxrHmcxWvKE

5 Comments

CaptainWednesdayJul 11, 20143 votes

Let's not be too hasty here. There's a lot of things wrong with this video.

You picked Ashe. An ADC not known for her damage on basics, but rather utility through her spells.
You picked Garen. A tank-bruiser who's W amps up his bonus Armor and Magic Resistance, which you built quite a lot of. You also activated it during the video, giving Garen 30% damage reduction for a majority of the basic attacks. He was not taking the full amount of Ashe's damage.
Ashe casted zero spells. Surprise, Ashe's W and ultimate deal damage as well. No Ashe is going to walk up to someone and just start hammering away at them for ~15 seconds while they have Thornmail without at least casting one spell.
Garen did not fight back. Where's the fighting at? The counterplay? Both champions just stood there.

Summary: This is not a true in game scenario, therefore your assumption that "Thornmail is overpowered" is null and void.

That being said Thornmail is underrated. It is a very good item, especially against a heavy AD team with many Auto-Attackers or on champions with taunts. I'd say it's overpowered on Rammus, and that's it. However, it is otherwise meh at best since it strictly provides Armor.

CritkeeperJul 11, 20141 votes

So imagine ashe did cast some spells. Imagine she hit garen with her volley 3 or 4 times, and her ultimate. Do you think all that together would do 1/3rd of garen's health? Hell no.

But garen could easily do that much damage to ashe with just his ultimate.

But all of that is aside from the point. The point is that a defensive item that costs 2300 gold and provides 2100 gold's worth of armor should not grant you the ability to do 6000 magic damage to an auto attacker in a duel.

But even if by some contrived reasoning we can justify having an item in the game do that, it sure as hell shouldn't do it in a way that can't be outplayed, out-timed, or avoided in some way. You can't kite, evade or avoid permanent passive damage return if your goal is to kill the target with auto attacks.

CaptainWednesdayJul 11, 20142 votes

Ashe can kite Garen to the max. He wouldn't even be able to get close to her with her Volley and Frost Shots. It can be avoided. Don't auto-attack them. Make sure your mages or burst assassins are the ones there to finish them without being completely auto-attack reliant. Thornmail is a very niche item and can only be effective on very few champions. If you find yourself dying to a Thornmail, your best bet is that you need some Armor Pen or stop dueling that champion altogether.

KingSmizzyJul 11, 20142 votes

Thats not very overpowered considering the way it works is by returning damage taken as magic dmg. So you took 4k dmg and ashe only had about 2k hp. If you had any less armor you would have died first, say merc treads instead of tabi.

TristyricJul 11, 20142 votes

Thats not entirely Thornmail being the issue. That's a related issue of the current meta where building full tank can quickly outscale damage potential. Most people will tell you to get a Botrk when you run into this situation which would be fair but it doesn't change the fact that the options for cutting through HP are limited(botrk), inconsistent(liandry's torment)or somewhat unappealing for laner's(SoteL).

You can't really blame Thornmail for being appealing when it rewards stacking defense options with extra damage.