Boards›Gameplay

Holy shit, ANOTHER ryze rework? For fucks sake... that will make 4 so far.

Critkeeper··227 votes·20,351 views

fix it this time please.

whatever it is about him that causes him to be broken, and suck rework resources into himself like some kind of super massive black hole

Fucking. Fix. It.

Don't try to make him the "next experiment" or "potentially super cool". Just fucking fix it. We don't care if his passive is ultra unique or if his itemization is special. We want a champion that doesn't require constant maintenance; other champions need attention and failed Ryze reworks keep them from being looked at. Fix it bro. Fix it.

199 Comments

EndlessSorcerer94 votes

Skarner Worry not, I shall join you soon enough.

KaisadiIIa38 votes

It makes me mad that pre-Juggernaut-update Skarner was fine but they had to change it because they can't understand that some champions will never be popular [excluding when they are OP, of course], and that is fine.

iamleburk22 votes

But that's not okay. Every champion should have a reason to be picked, in fact every champion should have a situation where they are the best option for a pick. That is why they are reworking Brand and Vel'koz, they are balanced but don't actually have good niches.

Not that the skarner rework was a success, i agree it wasn't, but it was justified. I don't think he was very high priority on their list, probably just figured if they were doing Darius and Morde they would get in Skarner as well. Imo Skarner needs the rework more than Ryze does, right now Ryze is only balanced at the highest level of play.

Skarner should be the juggernaut of the jungle, but it is very hard to gank without a gap closer and a juggernaut with a gap closer is pretty broken. Imo i have no idea why they took away his permaslow, that was entirely balanced to have on a juggernaut. A jugg should be "Get in range of me, and you suffer for it". Tahm Kench and Darius are probably the best examples of that right now.

macromite2 votes

ok then, son, you gotta learn something, tahm and skarner are too mobile to be considered juggernauts.

DorkunedAuras18 votes

tahm has ult, but no ability to move himself beyond that. Tahm's problem is the juggernauts "get in range of me and suffer" ideal is kinda fucked up on him because his Q gives him a huge range

Sir Yamazuki6 votes

{quoted}

But that's not okay. Every champion should have a reason to be picked, in fact every champion should have a situation where they are the best option for a pick. That is why they are reworking Brand and Vel'koz, they are balanced but don't actually have good niches.

Not that the skarner rework was a success, i agree it wasn't, but it was justified. I don't think he was very high priority on their list, probably just figured if they were doing Darius and Morde they would get in Skarner as well. Imo Skarner needs the rework more than Ryze does, right now Ryze is only balanced at the highest level of play.

Skarner should be the juggernaut of the jungle, but it is very hard to gank without a gap closer and a juggernaut with a gap closer is pretty broken. Imo i have no idea why they took away his permaslow, that was entirely balanced to have on a juggernaut. A jugg should be "Get in range of me, and you suffer for it". Tahm Kench and Darius are probably the best examples of that right now.

Lack of popularity isn't always due to lack of a reason to pick them. Some champions even when they offer something others don't and do really well still won't have much if a pick rate simply because they don't look or feel appealing. Some champions had their visuals altered and minor changes just so they look appealing in hopes they would be picked more. Although, there's over 100 champs and expecting them all to be played equally is just a dream that won't ever happen. As long as there are people that enjoy a champion it should be fine, there's no reason to change champions purely for popularity as that usually doesn't work out well and usually means taking popularity from another champion anyways.

ahferroin75 votes

Excellent example of this is Gallio, he's not popular not because he's not balanced, but because his niche (punishing teams who are way too magic damage heavy) is not something that happens often.

Setije19 votes

Yorick What did you say about not being popular?

Melledoneus21 votes

You're in the wrong game. Go back to shovel knight.

BoilTheOil4 votes

Yea I started to play him before the rework. I carried really hard in games but after the rework he was just some broken monster who got gutted.item 3070 Skarner item 3070

Lord Azır46 votes

The perma root bullshit is what makes him broken. He shouldn't gain a huge MS buff and just chase you down the lane to perma CC you and 100-0 you with just a item 3070 item 3010

Sulghunter7 votes

Salty Ryze main downvoted you. But we all know that this a major complaint on Ryze. Riot wants counterplay, and that perma-root is the antithesis of that. This problem is tantamount to the counterplay Annie has, not being able to even farm if the cc ability/passive is ready. Now, Ryze should be able to have huge burst, but massively powerful CC is a problem when it's on the same champion as well.

Scoroct7 votes

it really sucks that u can beat him early and suddenly he outscales u with just two mana giving items

Strawberrycocoa8 votes

Is Mana even his primary damage stat anymore? I tried to pick Ryze back up during his free week and his ratios for AP were stronger than his mana ratios. Mana looked like a secondary stat, not the main stat it used to be on him.

I might have misread the tooltips but he looked like he needed AP more than he used to back in the day.

Bodkins Odds9 votes

Yeah, but Seraph's + RoA are some of the highest AP you can get from two items thanks to their recent buffs, and you tend to have more mana than AP anyway, so the lower scaling probably just reflects that.

SpecterVonBaren2 votes

Plus he gets a lot of CDR from his ult passive so he doesn't want mana regen since those items give CDR, so he inevitably goes for mana AP items which give him durability to let him tank damage more with his short range.

Bears Dont Care19 votes

Rework ryze 4 times... Don't rework Warwick who is broken in every way. Don't rework eve who has no identity and is literally.throw. together

Make Taric wait on his rework.

If Riot lived on p2p they'd have died.

Poske9 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bears Dont Care,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=23W9yOYM,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2016-01-24T19:00:12.307+0000)

Rework ryze 4 times... Don't rework Warwick who is broken in every way. Don't rework eve who has no identity and is literally.throw. together

Make Taric wait on his rework.

If Riot lived on p2p they'd have died.

"Dont rework eve"

Its not like she had massive rework or anything

Archadria2 votes

Warwick is playable?

Oberic7 votes

Yes he's playable, but he's incredibly simple, has two boring skills, and is entirely ult dependent to be successful if he isn't ridiculously fed.

He does need a rework. And I need to use less commas.

Meep Man19 votes

At least you aren't Aatrox , who Riot released and was almost immediately like: "What the hell did we just release."

Stillname11 votes

It's not just Aatrox Riot has yet to get a melee AA based carry right.. MasterYi Yasuo Tryndamere are all pretty frustrating to play against when they are strong.

Although in their defense idk what a healthy AA melee carry would look like... Squishy but in melee range means death so they need some way to survive but it is bound to be frustrating to play against.

TotalJerk7 votes

Not to mention the fact that every single time they try to make a true melee ADC it just ends up basically becoming an assassin/fighter hybrd that uses auto attacks instead of spells. Yasuo was supposed to basically weave in and out of combat doing DPS in a pattern somewhat like ranged ADCs.

Oberic1 votes

I hate to be that guy, because League is my main game, but DotA melee carries are relatively healthy.

LordBahamutXVI3 votes

turn speed man, something we'll never have.

YCitizenSnipsY14 votes

Ryze is a Mage/Tank hybrid with a mostly point and click kit. That's your problem, anytime he is even remotely strong any idiot that can role their face across a keyboard will find success with him.

Abyssphere26 votes

{quoted}

Ryze is a Mage/Tank hybrid with a mostly point and click kit. That's your problem, anytime he is even remotely strong any idiot that can role their face across a keyboard will find success with him.

But right now he's extremely strong, the problem is that only the very best Ryze players can actually use him well enough to succeed with him.

His problem right now is actually the exact opposite of what it was in the past - he's so hard to play correctly that if any non-pro can ever do well with him then he's probably incredibly broken.

YCitizenSnipsY3 votes

Ryze is strong right now for people that play him alot, not for face roll idiots. Nothing wrong with that, Azir has had the same pattern since his release. If this is a balance problem then I'm for one fine with it, for a champ that who has been face roll for most of his existence I'm glad that now I only run the risk of loosing to a Ryze if its someone who plays him alot.

I don't see why every one seems to think we should be going back wards with him when his past iterations is what prompted 4 reworks in the first place.

Abyssphere8 votes

{quoted}

Ryze is strong right now for people that play him alot, not for face roll idiots. Nothing wrong with that, Azir has had the same pattern since his release. If this is a balance problem then I'm for one fine with it, for a champ that who has been face roll for most of his existence I'm glad that now I only run the risk of loosing to a Ryze if its someone who plays him alot.

I don't see why every one seems to think we should be going back wards with him when his past iterations is what prompted 4 reworks in the first place.

Characters are designed to be used by people for fun, at the end of the day. They need skill curves, because getting better at champions is fun and rewarding, but if a champion requires 100 miserable games of failure before you can actually have any fun with them then that is just too extreme, particularly when champions like that (i.e. just Azir and Ryze) tend to be basically impossible to lose with when you have mastered them. Riot doesn't want "I've learned this champion" to mean "I cannot lose with this champion", no matter how hard they are to play.

Zarkkast12 votes

Meanwhile Yorick

koifish6910 votes

Yorick does anyone even remember i exist

Archadria7 votes

You are broken in 90% of match ups, be quiet.

Oberic7 votes

That's part of why he needs a rework.

He also completely fails to hit the necromancer swarm fantasy, only skimming it.

Sneakyy XD9 votes

It's funny because his original design was awesome. He just needed his E to be nerfed a little bit.

gg git diff8 votes

Ryze will only be balanced if they gut him. He would have to completely lose his identity, and people would complain about it.

Slamurai Jack7 votes

Ryze is going to remain problematic no matter what they do with him as long as his identity remains as the short ranged, highly targeted mage that scales with Mana.

ModCaptainMårvelous7 votes

Mana Scaling makes every Mana item double dips for him. Perma-root. Shitloads of AoE and damage just by building 1-2 mana items.

They either need to stop make him scale with mana or remove his root.

Fat Bastard GOD4 votes

Where is the rework?

Critkeeper32 votes

{quoted}

We're going to try and tackle Ryze before the mid year, we think he's enough of a problem we need to act sooner . Unclear whether that'll mean some degree of rework or just significant balance changes.

Spizzle90002 votes

Dad, is that you?

Tecniac3 votes

http://asset-e.soupcdn.com/asset/4008/3859_e6e4.jpeg

Phoenix Kotori 1 votes

Turns out mana scaling was a terrible idea from the beginning, and so was spells reducing CD of all other spells.

Abyssphere1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Quinn of Yuri,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=23W9yOYM,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2016-01-24T18:37:37.847+0000)

Turns out mana scaling was a terrible idea from the beginning, and so was spells reducing CD of all other spells.

Yes, the problem with Ryze is surely that he gets a bit more damage from ROA/Seraph's than other mages.

Phoenix Kotori 4 votes

No the problem was item 3110 item 3025 being offensive+defensive items on him that let to the current rework of trying to stop those from being good on him, and instead broke him differently.

Battalion1 votes

Azir Akali Yorick Urgot Gangplank

These champions need Riot's help. Azir, Akali, Yorick, and Urgot are barely even viable and require a huge amount of mechanical knowledge just to do decent, not "survive" actually contributing to phases of the game.

Gangplank is just all messed up right now. If you took the crit off the barrels and instead made them do 150%-170% of his bonus physical damage. They still nuke you but they aren't doing 600 damage a piece and wiping out an entire wave.

HaiLnKill1 votes

[deleted]

Battalion2 votes

Akali seems very under-powered right now, I don't even play her. I just play against her.

Gangplank is much to oppressive. You can see it from casual play all the way to the LCS and high elo solo-queue.

There are no jokes.

Celeste Benal1 votes

Akali is fine once she hits level 6. But she gets dumped on prior to. All she can do is Q AA to farm and try not to die. But once she hits 6, assuming the player behind the keyboard played conservatively and did not feed early, you can kiss your ass goodbye.

GP is very easy to play around. Again, so long as you didn't feed him early, you should be able to deal with him. I don't like that his barrels crit.

idk why Azir is on your list.

Yorick, and Urgot? C. They need new kits entirely.

BoilTheOil3 votes

Gps kit is very unfair.He can just get through the laning faze easily by eating oranges and getting gold from his q.He gets map pressure no matter what with his ult and he gets his items quick therefore he nukes enemies with his barrels mid game-late game.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Critkeeper

The real reason veteran players are unhappy with the rune rework:
Gameplay350 comments
241
votes
Annie summon tibbers should be a projectile teddy bear monster that rips your fucking kidneys out.
Gameplay116 comments
195
votes
We want marksmen to be the go to class for taking down those burly front liners
Gameplay181 comments
134
votes
Trynd should be a slow attacking heavy hitting skirmisher who is practical in team fights
Gameplay106 comments
121
votes
If season 8 doesn't make marksmen thoroughly weaker in practice than they are now
Gameplay179 comments
99
votes
Brand with rylais is better at slowing people with fire than lissandra with ice.
Gameplay49 comments
90
votes