Trynd should be a slow attacking heavy hitting skirmisher who is practical in team fights

Critkeeper··121 votes·5,332 views

slower moving, slower hitting, a wider array of defensive tools and a bigger sword

When Tryndamere attacks 2.5 times a second it kind of destroys the illusion that the sword he's always dragging behind him is heavy or unwieldy.

And watching Tryndamere split push all day and then scurrying off when some heat is coming his way doesn't feel right. It makes him feel like a bandit who wants to vandalize your benches, lightpoles, trees, public spaces, libraries, your yard and your towers, not a barbarian who wants to be surrounded in violence. Real barbarians in real life were pretty much vandals, but the Barbarian Trope is just a badass dude throws himself in the middle of combat, gets himself surrounded, and then smashes everything.

325 move speed, 0.75 attack speed cap, replace mocking shout with a channeled block ability so he can team fight without being a binary one button champ, and double his sword size and range and make it feel big and unwieldy. Make it so that his auto attack strikes a linear area in front of him and can miss if enemies step out of it-- but if it lands make it smash shit hard. Real hard. Like "I don't give a shit if you stacked armor on alistar ult this shit will fuck you up so get the hell out of the way" hard. Always crits and converts a large % into true damage based on fury or something.

Jhin and Graves proved that ad carries don't necessarily need a ton of attack speed to function, and in a similar way Fiora proved that skirmishers don't really need a ton on attack speed to function-- but their kits have to be engineered with that in mind. I think Tryndamere would be more thematically whole if his sword felt convincingly heavy and he had a kit more focused on surviving in the MIDDLE of the enemy team, rather than surviving while diving and killing one guy then scurrying off, or avoiding everyone and just split pushing all day when that doesn't work. He's supposed to be a Barbarian King, not an assassin.

You could make his ult less practical in 1v1 and more practical in 5v5 or even 5v1. Tryndamere shouldn't be that pragmatic as a dueling champion because of how slow and ponderous he ought to feel-- although he should still be able to make quick work of enemies that don't respect his damage output and don't bother to dodge the sword.

Like, instead of lasting for 5 seconds and having his kit contain a slow and a high uptime dash that lets him basically assassinate people and run away, instead change his kit to remove the "assassination" gameplay and reinforce the "I will fight forever in the middle of combat". Like maybe an ultimate that lasts for 2.5 seconds but doesn't tick down as long as there is an enemy champion within 350 range. That makes it less scary in duels as long as you are running from him during his ult like you should be, especially if his kit is changed to be less sticky; it also makes him extremely scary in large team fights on dragon or baron because he can easily keep at least one enemy nearby and can potentially be immune to death for over 10 seconds.

I realize all this sounds like a terrible idea, but I don't really think it is. What is a terrible idea is just letting Trynd, the Barbarian King, continue to be forced to play the role of That-Assassin-Who-Does-Not-Look-Like-One, the Vandal King.

106 Comments

500000000000000028 votes

So basically Illaoi Q for autoattacks this actually sounds broken af but also fun lol

Earthlord Jazz12 votes

Just a small comment: How about his ult extends it's duration through auto attacks rather than proximity of enemies? It'd be kinda like Aatrox passive, which is pretty cool as he is the one who made Tryndamere into the barbarian he is today. This would reward Tryndamere for using his ult offensively while leaving more counterplay for enemies by simply not attacking him. Have his ult only last a 3 seconds and each auto attack extends the duration to a max of 7

Kyunsei2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Earthlord Jazz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vWjlTqrP,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-04-01T19:34:45.133+0000)

Just a small comment: How about his ult extends it's duration through auto attacks rather than proximity of enemies? It'd be kinda like Aatrox passive, which is pretty cool as he is the one who made Tryndamere into the barbarian he is today. This would reward Tryndamere for using his ult offensively while leaving more counterplay for enemies by simply not attacking him. Have his ult only last a 3 seconds and each auto attack extends the duration to a max of 7

or 3 seconds to 5, 1 seconds per AA against champion.

Earthlord Jazz6 votes

This would be a direct nerf to Tryndamere, as his ult already lasts 5 flat seconds. I wanted to avoid as much as possible, and I probably shouldn't have even mentioned numbers

ModAcademy Kayn10 votes

But that makes no sense. Slow methodical heavy swings make sense for someone who needs to emphasize every strike they make (like the Lawbringer's MOST VERSTATILE WEAPON). Tryn, and swords for the most part, aren't like that. Tryn is angry, he's rage filled. Slow strikes don't emphasize that, fast furious hits do, as he wails and wails on his opponent, bearing no mind of stance or technique, but full blown rage as he throws his blade at your.

Standgrounding2 votes

Try swinging a dumbbell at 2.5 times per second.

Try imagining someone swing a 50+ kg sword that fast. one would break his arms doing that lol...

Chromatic Eagle6 votes

Realism when we have a talking space dragon?

Melledoneus2 votes

Talking space dragons exist. You just need certain herbs to unlock your inner sage to speak to them.

Sraeg20131 votes

The joke is nobody sane would swing a sword like he does, even if the sword was 2kg.

That's what a mace is for.

Standgrounding1 votes

Pro as heck Dunkmaster Mordekaiser?

Sraeg20131 votes

"Henekton"... like a chicken?

Standgrounding1 votes

Yes

Coward Rene op

Snowplosion8 votes

Trynd as a juggernaut kinda makes sense...

AirKingNeo3 votes

Juggernaut Skirmisher Hybrid

D3m37r17 votes

Nice april fools post

Kyunsei3 votes

{quoted}

Nice april fools post

Ahaha, I don't know if it's an april fool post, but actually I like all his points, although it'll push him more into a juggernaut play-style instead of a skirmisher.

Umbral Regent6 votes

While I can agree with some points, I kinda have to disagree with others - namely the ult suggestion, having him maintain death-immunity from nearby enemy champions.

I don't have any ideal suggestions myself (barring one that's kinda just a slight rip of World of Warcraft), but I do feel like I kinda have to nitpick with terminology: What you're describing for Tryndamere wouldn't be a Skirmisher, but rather some sort of Vanguard Tank or Juggernaut Fighter - the latter, more likely. Juggernauts are characterized by being slow, having little in the way of mobility, and being able to hit extremely hard. Skirmishers are a subclass of Slayer, characterized by high mobility, being fairly easy to kill, but having a fair amount of defensive and offensive tools to shred through enemies and live long enough to enjoy it.

If they were to keep Tryndamere a Skirmisher (and this would be that aforementioned rip), I'd kinda like to see them go the way of Fury Warriors in World of Warcraft, having him take increased damage the more Rage he has, as well as having to balance between building and spending Rage in combat. But, again, that's a tasteless rip, so I don't expect them to actually do that.

All-in-all, I like the idea of Tryndamere being a Juggernaut, but it's also nice to have him be a Freljordian Skirmisher - just, not as he is right now.

Kyunsei3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Umbral Regent,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vWjlTqrP,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2017-04-01T22:26:55.774+0000)

While I can agree with some points, I kinda have to disagree with others - namely the ult suggestion, having him maintain death-immunity from nearby enemy champions.

I don't have any ideal suggestions myself (barring one that's kinda just a slight rip of World of Warcraft), but I do feel like I kinda have to nitpick with terminology: What you're describing for Tryndamere wouldn't be a Skirmisher, but rather some sort of Vanguard Tank or Juggernaut Fighter - the latter, more likely. Juggernauts are characterized by being slow, having little in the way of mobility, and being able to hit extremely hard. Skirmishers are a subclass of Slayer, characterized by high mobility, being fairly easy to kill, but having a fair amount of defensive and offensive tools to shred through enemies and live long enough to enjoy it.

If they were to keep Tryndamere a Skirmisher (and this would be that aforementioned rip), I'd kinda like to see them go the way of Fury Warriors in World of Warcraft, having him take increased damage the more Rage he has, as well as having to balance between building and spending Rage in combat. But, again, that's a tasteless rip, so I don't expect them to actually do that.

All-in-all, I like the idea of Tryndamere being a Juggernaut, but it's also nice to have him be a Freljordian Skirmisher - just, not as he is right now.

Could you explain what you're disliking in his current identity as a skirmisher ? More around ultimate or critical strike ? Something else ? Your point is interesting.

Umbral Regent8 votes

At the moment, Tryndamere's an old, outdated Skirmisher, with the same kit failings as Riot has mentioned about Xin Zhao (being oriented around simply auto-attacking a single champion and moving onto the next) - and, uncharacteristic of more up--to-date Skirmishers, 60% of Tryndamere's kit is defensive abilities - a heal, an attack-damage drop/conditional movespeed slow, and a brief invulnerability, whereas Champions with more current kits in the Skirmisher Class have roughly an equal mix of damage and defense, and their kit usually promotes some unique styles of play.

As an example, let's use Fiora, the Grand Duelist. Her Passive, W, and Ult are all defensive tools, but her passive takes the back seat as a defense ability in comparison to its offensive potential; and, notably, her Passive is roughly 70/30 in terms of offense/defense, whereas her ult (which one could say is a bigger Passive) is arguably a straight 50/50. Her W is also 10/90~ on that scale, giving her room to have fierce offensive tools with her Lunge and Bladework.

This mostly promotes Fiora using position management and quick, calculated bursts of aggression to throw off and eviscerate her enemies, while not being overly reliant on her defensive tools - usually saving them for when she anticipates large, incoming damage, or when the fight starts tipping out of her favor.

Tryndamere, on the other hand, lacks a unique playstyle, with his Battle Fury critical strike boost making him prioritize farming for Rage until he has enough to go in for trades, which, in most cases he'll usually win. Even if he doesn't win, he can still break roughly even with his absurd critical strike chance (one of my biggest pain points on him, personally), as well as using Spinning Slash to either secure the kill, or to bail when things aren't going his way pre-6.

And, thinking of pre-6, that's another unfortunate thing about Tryndamere, is that his defensive power is budgeted overwhelmingly towards his Undying Rage. His Bloodlust is extremely weak, probably only ever being used immediately after an ult tower dive, or to make himself a little healthier to re-farm his Rage after a trade. And his Mocking Shout, his only other non-ultimate defensive tool, is only just reliable. The large decrease to enemy attack damage does help with most trades, but in variable cases it can be just as underwhelming as Bloodlust, and probably is primarily used for the movespeed slow on escaping enemies.

This (in my opinion, unfortunately) results in Tryndamere being an uninteractive Champion who's only playstyle is to build Rage until he caps his meter, and dive on anyone he intends to kill, almost always securing it thanks to Undying Rage being so heavily budgeted.

In my opinion, a few things probably need to happen for Tryndamere to become a more balanced and enjoyable Skirmisher;

1. Pull some of his defensive power budget away from his Ultimate. When the only defensive tools Tryndamere needs fall under the lines of Banshee's Veil, Mercurial Scimitar, and being level 6, yet him also having two other defensive tools built into his kit, there's definitely a visible budgeting problem with his Ultimate. And - I can agree, his Ultimate ability does need to be strong, but it really shouldn't crowd out the rest of his kit as soon as it's available.

2. Improve on his other defensive tools. I don't personally have any suggestions for Mocking Shout, but I think Bloodlust needs a lot of work to be a worthwhile ability to use. Ideally, I think Bloodlust should be made that it can be used in-combat, in relatively quick succession. "Bloodlust" says having a desire to shed blood, but in practice, what "Bloodlust" does is just partially heal you based on how angry you were at the end of your trade. I could of course be wrong, but I'm halfway certain that Bloodlust is used primarily after engagements, especially since you don't really need to heal when you can't die.

3. Cut his Critical Strike power, push it to more interactive offensive abilities. As is a major pain point for many people with Yasuo, Tryndamere having such an ease of landing Critical Strikes without actually needing to buy much into the stat is an excruciatingly dull part of his kit, and it's terrible to fight against. Unless you're a Juggernaut or someone who stacks armor and buys into Randuin's Omen, how are you supposed to fight someone who can reliably crit with maybe just one Crit item? Especially one who can very easily ignore incoming damage for five whole seconds?

While removing his bonus Critical Strike per Rage would be a strong step forward into making Tryndamere more fun and acceptable to play against, and less binary to play as, that would leave a big hole in his overall power, which would have to be redistributed somewhere; potentially to the point of replacing one of the basic abilities in his kit. And, the loss of Critical Strike would also give him no real reason to start building up Rage, leaving another problem to solve.

Which leads me to going back to the World of Warcraft rip yet again, but bear with me:

4. Give Tryndamere a reason to build and burn Battle Fury, potentially making them Rage Spenders. While I don't myself play a Fury Warrior, I have at one point in World of Warcraft, and they have an interesting mechanic with their Rage. When they build Rage, they lose resistances equivalent to the Rage they currently have, and some abilities spend small amounts of Rage for quick bursts of damage, while some others burn your entire Rage bar for a massive onslaught of damage. With the issues inherent to Tryndamere's kit, giving a reason for Tryndamere players to be more conscious of their Rage meter might make Tryndamere a more balanced Champion.

In my opinion, Mocking Shout and/or Spinning Slash could do with being removed, and replaced with something new. (although, as a Skirmisher, removing Spinning Slash would very likely require designing a whole new mobility ability). Mocking Shout, barring its movespeed slow, is basically one of the least readable abilities in the game; like Bond of Stone before it became Stoneborn Pact, it was invisible power. While I can't come up with any ideas for an ability to replace it, removing Mocking Shout would give a lot of leeway into rebudgeting power away from Undying Rage and into Bloodlust, as mentioned above.

I'll have to think on this all a little more, but for now, these are the most thorough thoughts I could compose on short notice. I hope that this serves as a little more than what you asked, and I thank you for provoking me to discuss my gripes with Tryndamere.

Critkeeper2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Umbral Regent,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vWjlTqrP,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2017-04-01T22:26:55.774+0000)

While I can agree with some points, I kinda have to disagree with others - namely the ult suggestion, having him maintain death-immunity from nearby enemy champions.

I don't have any ideal suggestions myself (barring one that's kinda just a slight rip of World of Warcraft), but I do feel like I kinda have to nitpick with terminology: What you're describing for Tryndamere wouldn't be a Skirmisher, but rather some sort of Vanguard Tank or Juggernaut Fighter - the latter, more likely. Juggernauts are characterized by being slow, having little in the way of mobility, and being able to hit extremely hard. Skirmishers are a subclass of Slayer, characterized by high mobility, being fairly easy to kill, but having a fair amount of defensive and offensive tools to shred through enemies and live long enough to enjoy it.

If they were to keep Tryndamere a Skirmisher (and this would be that aforementioned rip), I'd kinda like to see them go the way of Fury Warriors in World of Warcraft, having him take increased damage the more Rage he has, as well as having to balance between building and spending Rage in combat. But, again, that's a tasteless rip, so I don't expect them to actually do that.

All-in-all, I like the idea of Tryndamere being a Juggernaut, but it's also nice to have him be a Freljordian Skirmisher - just, not as he is right now.

Strictly speaking, skirmishers have nothing to do with mobility. Its just that every skirmisher (by chance) has some: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/dev-blog-classes-subclasses

"Unlike Assassins, Skirmishers aim to shred through any nearby enemy that approaches. Because Skirmishers lack high-end burst damage or reliable ways of closing in on high-priority targets, they are instead armed with situationally powerful defensive tools to survive in the fray, along with extreme sustained damage to cut down even the most durable targets."

So basically what makes a skirmisher a skirmisher is being able to shred any target, regardless of durability, who gets close AND having powerful defensive tools that can make them exceptionally difficult to kill when used properly.

A juggernaught doesn't have defensive tools like this, and just has plain defense instead. The benefit is that a player can't outplay "plain defense", and you can't mess it up. The drawback is that "plain defense" might not allow you to reach the same peak potential-- windwall and riposte can protect you from any amount of damage for instance.

So i'm basically imagining Trynd as a skirmisher in the defined sense, who focuses his power budget purely on target agnostic damage and situational defense, with no part of his power budget spared for mobility or anything else. A "pure" skirmisher so to speak.

I believe it is impossible to make something like that be single target only because the damage level required to make it work would have to be honest one shot level (probably the reason why every skirmisher to date has mobility). At that point its basically just burst damage and begins to resemble an assassin again sans the dashes and/or blinks that make assassins practical. In order to make it atleast somewhat healthy, the damage has to be spread out a bit among multiple targets. Hence why my suggestion is for Trynd to basically have AOE auto attacks that pretty much do about the same damage to whatever is hit regardless of durability.

PermabannedGaren2 votes

{quoted}

Strictly speaking, skirmishers have nothing to do with mobility. Its just that every skirmisher (by chance) has some: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/dev-blog-classes-subclasses

Wrong.

"Slayers are fragile but agile damage-focused melee champions that look to swiftly take down their targets."

Mobility is inherent in the entire Slayer class, as well as both of its subclasses.

Mira Arya Enthe6 votes

I could say the same for Ashe, the archer fantasy has nothing to do with firing 2.5 arrows a second split into 5 making it 12.5 arrows a second.

SociopathFriend2 votes

Er- what? The "Archer fantasy" would be firing as many arrows as possible, as accurately as possible, at the target would it not? How does Ashe not accomplish this?

Dank Memes 333 5 votes

I honestly wish Riot would implement all the changes you guys suggest just for one day. It would make you guys realize how 90% of the stuff you guys suggest is utter crap and that you have no idea what you are talking about lol.

Anidan5 votes

"Let's take these champions with different niches... and make them like everybody else! Everybody loves when every champion fills the same niches in a team right?!"

Seriously, why is split-pushing apparently so big of a problem that League has to convince itself that everyone should be good in a teamfight, and the only time they don't have to be is when they're not so good at dueling that only other duelists can reliably fight them solo? They don't want niches, they want everyone to be viable in teamfights and for split pushing to be extinct because they find it "toxic" or "unfun" rather than just another means to an end that is victory.

My favorite part may have been the slow, telegraphed AoE AA... Yeah, let's just let his freaking auto attack miss because the enemy isn't a potato! Sounds great! He'd never get to fight a ranged champion ever again and even melee champions like Fiora and Fizz would be unkillable for him.

Dank Memes 333 1 votes

ikr, just like the nunu/singed support fiasco. They were all up in arms about how riot doesn't allow diversity but the moment they have even the slightest amount of troll in their game they get angry.

Anidan1 votes

Essentially. I know it doesn't apply to all posters on the board, but it seems to catch the most upvotes to say what is essentially: "We want diversity, but we want to deal with none of the ramifications of actual diversity." They want the veneer of diversity - they want everyone to look and feel slightly different to each other while doing essentially the same things as everyone else. The only difference they want is the approach from which the job is taken.

Doing this would allow them to try to remove "unhealthy," "toxic," or "unfun" playstyles while giving the illusion that there's a lot of strategic variety in the gameplay because champions are just different enough that it isn't immediately obvious that they're occupying the same gameplay roles.

Then you get into things like the nunu/singed support fiasco you mentioned where it becomes essentially mob rule as to what is considered tolerable, fun, and enjoyable.

"We want diversity! But not too much, that's toxic because I'd actually have to work around it, and anything that forces me to change up my playstyle is toxic because it's forcing me to do something I don't want to do."

PermabannedGaren5 votes

{quoted}

slower moving, slower hitting, a wider array of defensive tools and a bigger sword

So a juggernaut.

When Tryndamere attacks 2.5 times a second it kind of destroys the illusion that the sword he's always dragging behind him is heavy or unwieldy.

He's not a weakling friend, he's strong as shit and can swing a sword that massive that quickly.

And watching Tryndamere split push all day and then scurrying off when some heat is coming his way doesn't feel right.

Should he be forced to stand there and be killed 1v5? No champion in the game will be played if they are forced to fight battles they can not win. As a splitpushing duelist, it's asinine and ridiculous to expect him to just have to fight unwinnable battles. Tryndamere's playstyle is otherwise very aggressive unless he is in a very bad lane.

It makes him feel like a bandit who wants to vandalize your benches, lightpoles, trees, public spaces, libraries, your yard and your towers, not a barbarian who wants to be surrounded in violence. Real barbarians in real life were pretty much vandals, but the Barbarian Trope is just a badass dude throws himself in the middle of combat, gets himself surrounded, and then smashes everything.

Oh so you actually think he should just jump into the middle of the entire enemy team and kill people. That's dumb.

325 move speed, 0.75 attack speed cap, replace mocking shout with a channeled block ability so he can team fight without being a binary one button champ, and double his sword size and range and make it feel big and unwieldy.

Will he still have his E?

Make it so that his auto attack strikes a linear area in front of him and can miss if enemies step out of it--

So you want him to be garbage, lol? Auto attacks that can miss... he will either be garbage because he will be unreliable, or his damage will be so insane he will be broken.

but if it lands make it smash shit hard. Real hard. Like "I don't give a shit if you stacked armor on alistar ult this shit will fuck you up so get the hell out of the way" hard. Always crits and converts a large % into true damage based on fury or something.

Ah okay, so you do in fact just want his damage to be so laughably stupid he'd be overpowered, until he gets inevitably gutted into obscurity.

Jhin and Graves proved that ad carries don't necessarily need a ton of attack speed to function,

Jhin and Graves are ranged. Graves also isn't really an AD carry. He's a burst bruiser. His ability to actually carry late game is limited. Graves also has a lot of mobility in team fights. You want Tryndamere to also have no attack speed, but to be slow and immobile. You literally want him to provide nothing but damage, without any of Jhin's utility and range, or Graves' mobility and even some utility. That's an awful design.

and in a similar way Fiora proved that skirmishers don't really need a ton on attack speed to function-- but their kits have to be engineered with that in mind.

Notice how she is also extremely mobile and is based on AA resets, making up for her lack of attack speed.

I think Tryndamere would be more thematically whole if his sword felt convincingly heavy and he had a kit more focused on surviving in the MIDDLE of the enemy team, rather than surviving while diving and killing one guy then scurrying off, or avoiding everyone and just split pushing all day when that doesn't work. He's supposed to be a Barbarian King, not an assassin.

If you want Tryndamere to be able to team fight effectively the way Yasuo can, making him a fat immobile sack of shit isn't going to cut it friend.

You could make his ult less practical in 1v1 and more practical in 5v5 or even 5v1.

The idea of making his ult stronger 1v5 than 1v1 is dumb.

Tryndamere shouldn't be that pragmatic as a dueling champion because of how slow and ponderous he ought to feel-- although he should still be able to make quick work of enemies that don't respect his damage output and don't bother to dodge the sword.

"Dude who cares if people play Tryndamere because they like playing duelists, arbitrarily change his entire identity".

Like, instead of lasting for 5 seconds and having his kit contain a slow and a high uptime dash that lets him basically assassinate people and run away, instead change his kit to remove the "assassination" gameplay and reinforce the "I will fight forever in the middle of combat". Like maybe an ultimate that lasts for 2.5 seconds but doesn't tick down as long as there is an enemy champion within 350 range.

So you're saying he should virtually be unkillable in team fights.

It actually scares me that people upvoted you. That idea is possibly the single dumbest idea I have ever seen on the boards. A team that could lock down the enemies for Tryndamere would be literally unbeatable, because a fat asshole who could apparently kill your ADC in one auto attack and your tank in three would be in the team fight and be able to just sit in the middle of it and be unable to die.

Also, you still haven't elaborated on if Tryndamere would have any mobility at all. If the answer is no your design is completely doomed to failure. Making a champion whose success relies entirely on getting into melee range and then giving them no tools to get into melee range is incredibly stupid and the entire reason juggernauts as a class struggle. You'd make Tryndamere a boring stat stick just like them, only even worse because even his fucking auto attacks aren't reliable.

That makes it less scary in duels as long as you are running from him during his ult like you should be, especially if his kit is changed to be less sticky; it also makes him extremely scary in large team fights on dragon or baron because he can easily keep at least one enemy nearby and can potentially be immune to death for over 10 seconds.

So you do want him to be less sticky.

So you want Tryndamere to be completely useless garbage when not paired with Ivern, but hilariously overbearing when he is? Because that's what would happen with this binary shitty champion you've brainstormed.

I realize all this sounds like a terrible idea

That's because it is.

but I don't really think it is.

Thought wrong.

What is a terrible idea is just letting Trynd, the Barbarian King, continue to be forced to play the role of That-Assassin-Who-Does-Not-Look-Like-One, the Vandal King.

All Tryndamere needs is something to make his laning less cancer and shift some of his splitpushing power into the ability to work with his team (but still keep him a splitpusher first, like Fiora).

He doesn't need to be arbitrarily turned into some weird shitty Juggernaut skirmisher.

Asayake 5150glow4 votes

Fiora was a bad example, because although she doesn't get attack speed, her kit revolves around resets and pseudo-resets of auto's and pseudo-auto's.

Aka Fiora revolves around using her Q, Tiamat, E, and E attack speed to strike quickly with the equivalent power of an auto attack each blow.

Supreme Senpai694 votes

I don't think you understand what a 0.75 attack speed cap would do to his laning phase and CS score.

Chembaron Yamada2 votes

Jhin has AS cap too and is able to farm. You just have to put in a skill fulfilling that purpose like Jhins dancing grenade.

Supreme Senpai693 votes

Yea his Q is pretty essential to farming. But more importantly Jhin is ranged lol. Having .75 attack speed as a melee means you're just standing there, idle, waiting to last hit that minion for ages while they get free poke on you. He'd never survive the laning phase. Then Jhin has that 4th shot crit so if you try to stalk him like a vulture while he is farming he can punish you for it including the range.

Critkeeper3 votes

I don't think the 0.75 attack speed would do anything to his farming because his attacks are linear area of effects

in other words he'd actually be among the best at farming and pushing

Kyunsei3 votes

Thematically speaking, Tryndamere would better be a barbarian that thrill in the heat of battle (---> your rework idea) but for player who plays him, isn't it the exact opposite ? I love to play him cause you'll become the more important player of your team and that his play-style is solo, what'll happen if he becomes a Juggernaut ?

If I take Fiora rework, GP rework or even Riven (in a smaller portion), sure they got more AoE, and have some unique spell to ignore CC, but hey, they're still mainly split-pusher since they'll excel in duel, have high mobility and have an high capability to take turret.

ModCaptainMårvelous3 votes

I don't know man the idea that Tryn is so jacked his sword can be swung with the same speed as Yi's katana is kind of cool.

DarkPh0enix3 votes

Just turn him into Guts from Berserk.

Have a "rage" mode (his ultimate) that allows him to fight for longer

Give him a massive sword that cannot be used, but Trynda can, because he is fueled by his rage.

Make every impact matter, make critical strikes matter even more.

However, both Jhin AND Graves have ways to sticking onto their target, despite the low number of attacks they dish out and also, their range.Replace W with an auto reset that stuns, keep E, keep Q, make passive give some sort of bonus at 100 Fury (like more crit damage) (and before you say that will be broken, it will be harder to stack with his low attack speed). I think his ultimate should be dependent on the Fury he has before he activated it, and increases up to a cap based on how much Fury he gains during that time.

Ultîma2 votes

I think Tryndamere's auto-attacks should be devastating as well. I like the idea behind the attack-speed gating and that they should be more impactful to compensate. I think that, given the size of his sword, Tryndamere should have a "cleave" effect with every auto, swinging his sword in a wide arc to hit everything in front of him.

Chembaron Yamada2 votes

Tryndamere has a skin called Nightmare Tryndamere.^^ And look at Tryndameres demon blade skin and tell me that dude isn't based on Soul Caliburs Nightmare. XD

Dataless2 votes

I wouldn't mind seeing Tryndamere re-imagined into a teamfighting Juggernaut.

Sohleks2 votes

I'm going to be honest I like to play Tryndamere jungle because I'm the most cowardly dishonorable [tactical] Tryndamere player of all and I like playing him like a bandit. I don't want him to be a juggernaut we have other guys for that.

Seeing 2 item 90% crit tryndamere 3 hit squishies when they can't kill me through ult or outrun me through ghost spin makes me giddy laughin to the bank

I wrote more about how I play my jungle Tryndamere here

rtbf2256182412 votes

but the Barbarian Trope is just a badass dude throws himself in the middle of combat, gets himself surrounded, and then smashes everything.

Really? To me, Barbarians are just buttpirates with nothing better to do than use whatever weapons they can get and ransack those weaker than them. Not to mention he's a self-proclaimed king of more rapists and murderers like himself.

I think the ones you're describing are Vikings and we have Olaf who lives up to that fantasy perfectly.

YoungSirJ0ey1 votes

Barbarians and Vikings are literally the same thing. The only difference is that one has boats.

SlaktarTasken4 votes

Vikings were actually traders, explorers (they wen't to the extremes of Siberia, all the way to africa, deep into the middle east and some claim they migh even have visited America nearly 600 years before Columbus ever did) and mercenaries, very few vikings actually went on ransacking crusades.

They were highly valued for their combat prowess and sure, they did ransack some churches in Brittain under some idiot Viking king (this actually lead to the death of viking culture since christianity then turned it's eyes to the "northern barbarians". Viking society was highly equalistic and viking women whom sometimes partook in combat themselves had a very strong standing in society and were basicly the queens of their homes. Many laws that vikings had were considerably more logical, fair and progressive than those that we see in todays "modern and democratic" societies. Sure, they took and trades slaves on occation, but that was common for socities back then and even high societies in europe basicly had serfs as slaves, taking their ancestral lands and giving them to some douché lordling forcing upon them taxes under the threat of the sword. Also, freeing a slave or even accepting them as family members was not uncommon in viking society. How often did "lords" ever but "tolerate" the presence of serfs in their vicinity and on "their" lands?

I've not studied the history of different barbarian tribes but I take pride in my very ancient ancestors and their free way of living, so please, do not sully them with your ignorance.

Friendly regards, a swede.

Faceroll Tactics2 votes

Skirmishers never really needed atkspeed to function.

Riven Camille Fiora and Jayce are skirmishers that have mechanics and skills that buff atkspeed, but they never build it as a stat

invisiblecat12 votes

That will literally make him a burst assassin, where he will sit in a bush and when someone walks by he gets on auto off, E's, and then another auto If both of those autos IE crit then they are DEAD

Critkeeper2 votes

{quoted}

That will literally make him a burst assassin, where he will sit in a bush and when someone walks by he gets on auto off, E's, and then another auto If both of those autos IE crit then they are DEAD

He does that now, except right now he does it in 0.6 seconds instead of 2

IAintDarius2 votes

"A 2.5 undying that will never go away until you stop fighting him."

Ok so you reworked him from an auto win or lose toplaner to an auto win toplaner.

Kyunsei2 votes

Hey, for those interested in Tryndamere rework concept, I've posted one working around the fact that he must maintain his ult through fighting or lose it trough heavy damage, check it here

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