What's keeping Moonflair Spellblade off of Summoner's Rift?

Pharrøw·7/15/2014, 1:07:01 AM·9 votes·6,867 views

I always wondered what kept Moonflair off of the Rift. Is it a balance issue, map exclusivity, or something else?

I'd love to see it on champs like Diana and Amumu.

EDIT : Loving the discussion here, people. I've asked another question pertaining to nerfing it slightly like increasing the cost to something deserving of its stats or removing its tenacity, was wondering what you guys though about that? I see a lot of discussion about balance (obviously, it's a GREAT item), but not much about what would happen to champions or how it would affect the itemization of AP bruisers and others who found use for the item.

40 Comments

RiotPhreak7/16/2014, 8:05:21 AM5 votes

Two things on the itemization:

Tenacity is largely a bruiser stat. It can be good on mages who also buy Zhonya's, but that's basically it. Squishies who get hit by CC tend to die to them anyway, even if it's .5 seconds shorter. Tanks don't really care about being stunned. So it's only for "I want high damage uptime and I have a fair bit of health."
Armor+MR is not generally a good set of stats to have on an item. We have a stat for "makes you more durable against all incoming damage" and that stat in Health. Very rarely do Armor and MR exist on the same item. I can't speak to the reasons for why they do.

Overall, you do properly identify that Amumu/Diana want the item. Singed does too. It's something I can ask about, more durability+AP for the melee mage/bruiser types.

RiotPWYFF7/15/2014, 3:24:59 AM4 votes

I wonder if there are AP bruiser champions who effectively operate as such (c'mon, Diana's played most effectively as an assassin right now). It's an interesting question but if Diana or Amumu built these things does that mean they can opt out of merc treads and go potentially even more threatening? Does it create more player expression or does it make the big fat bullies even bigger, fatter bullies? I think it comes to the fact that spellcasts are inherently bursty, so when you create tenacity AP items there's risk of creating an item that allows the burst-spellcasty bullies to get even further ahead in the snowball.

hakE697/15/2014, 1:13:44 AM3 votes

This was something i've heard about a possible "Moonfire cape" where Rioters said it will just unbalance everything, since you would take the three best tank stats by just buying two items. With moonflair i guess it should be quite similar. You have already GA as the item with MR and Armor in SR, plus the passive, if you had also moonflair, not only you would be adding a huge advantage to AP tanky champions compared to non-AP ones, but also making less important other items, etc.. So i guess it's all about balance.

That said, I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE MOONFLAIR ON SR, i was just sharing my thoughts on why it's not there. Greetings

67chrome7/15/2014, 3:00:34 AM2 votes

Generally speaking, the items in alternate maps exist to help out classes that are struggling more there than they are in Rift.

In Dominion and Treelines - duelists and skirmishers reign supreeme, and team-fighters and those reliant on a front line tend to...not. Mages and Marksman needed an extra push, so mages got Blackfire Torch (most broken item ever), Wogglet's Witchap, and Moonflair spellblade. I'm not sure exactly why Moonflare got it's ranged-exclusive portion removed there though - Singed is an incredibly dominant pick in treelines. Marksman got an easier build path to Infinity Edge with Wicket, though they're still struggling pretty hard in both modes.

For Abyss, it's team-fighters and heavy poke that tends to win, so (basically melee champs) got Orb of Winter and the warhorn.

Anyways - adding those items into Rift would pretty much come with a guarantee they'd be broken in Rift due to their entire purpose largely being buffing an entire archetype to compete with the vastly different environment of other maps and modes.

SonicÐeHedgedawg7/21/2014, 7:05:44 PM2 votes

So here's my question to really anyone at Riot: If item 3170 is over-tuned so that it can exist on twisted treeline where mages need help, same as item 3090 , then what prevents a less powerful version of it from gracing the fields of justice on Summoner's Rift?

I mean, item 3157 is undoubtedly inferior to Wooglet's, but, in exchange for weaker stats, it is balanced to be on the rift.

OBVIOUSLY one of the primary problems with Moonflair is the presence of high MR and armour on a heavy AP item with tenacity, but what stops a less all-around amazing defensive pick, (maybe, say, item 3191 + item 3113 ) from being allowed on the Rift so that AP fighters like Singed , Ryze , Evelynn , Rumble , Vladimir , etc. can enjoy the same tenacity that their AD counterparts get to help them do their jobs? (though, obviously singed and ryze would prefer mana, that would be overtuned with a glacial shroud, methinks, and rumble and vlad would hate it.

Likewise, while I think the new item 3207 is amazing, I really miss the ability to play a tank that needs to stick, like Sejuani, and run both tenacity and item 3009 . Perhaps add in a remake to force of nature that has stats similar to the old SotAG with, maybe a item 3114 and a item 1011 so that sticky non AD, non AP tanks that really need to stick can opt into tenacity without being shoehorned (no pun intended) into item 3111 ?

Pharrøw7/23/2014, 8:37:03 PM1 votes

Dunno if this will necro the thread or not, but I totally forgot Morello existed.

Hey, Morello! I'd love to know what you had to say about this!

Shenron7/15/2014, 1:28:38 AM1 votes

Bruiser mains would scream AP favoritism because they get an item with AP, MR, Armor, and Tenacity

Funster7/15/2014, 3:27:52 PM1 votes

This item would be straight god-like on Gragas. Just grab this bad boy after your Rod of Ages and you'll be unstoppably tanky.

thunderingice7/15/2014, 4:02:59 PM1 votes

My whole issue with the thing is that you get ar mr and hp on the same item. not to mention ap and tenacity. It is just too many types of stats in one place while being cost and slot efficient. There is no reason to not buy it.
But more importantly, I hate the ar and mr on the same item part. With the exception of GA and warmogs, buying defensive items is a choice between ar and mr, followed by a choice of what do you want to go with your resist. I think this choice is healthy for the game and I am opposed to giving out both on one item. I have mixed feelings on GA, but I consider it ok because it is clearly bad as an item when the extra life is on cd, aka it has a clearly defined weakness (but possibly needs a slight nerf anyway). There is no such weakness on Spellblade. It is an amazing item all the time. Quite frankly, I could see this item being must rush and making champs that are not effective with it not viable in mid and top.

Linna Excel7/16/2014, 4:43:38 AM1 votes

I always wondered what kept Moonflair off of the Rift. Is it a balance issue, map exclusivity, or something else?

I'd love to see it on champs like Diana and Amumu.

It used to be purchasable on the rift then riot removed it for some reason. I think a version of it could make it back there if you are fine with different stats for it. My biggest issue is it has a lot of stats and it's a strictly better version of GA for most champs. I'm not going to lie, the GA passive is rarely helpful as is.