The myth and reality of elo hell

theTyger··7 votes·1,299 views

So a lot of people go back and forth about elo hell. It's real, no it's not, etc. etc. Shut up and L2P n00b. You know the drill. So I thought I'd weigh in with my two cents. First and foremost, you can't win every game. There are even diamond players I've seen who, at least at times, have a less than 50% win rate. That doesn't mean you can't always improve. In every game there's always a play you could have executed better, a mechanic you messed up, a cool down you forget to burn, something. There's always something you could have done to play a better and cleaner game.

That being said, here's the problem. Let's say, for whatever reason, you're having an off day, you're playing when you're really sick (or otherwise in a state where you shouldn't be playing), or maybe you just get really unlucky and go on a massive losing streak. Not because you were a bad player, you just had some rough luck. Maybe they were all really close matches that just didn't fall your way.

Supposedly the games are set up to give each team as close to a 50% chance of winning as possible, so from a probability standpoint, it's completely possible for a 10 game losing streak to have absolutely no bearing on your individual skill. You can actually try this at home. Flip a coin enough times, eventually you WILL get 10 heads in a row. Just over 1000 on average, if you do the math. This means, in a game with millions of people playing, a 10 game losing streak based on 'bad luck' alone is actually fairly common place.

Regardless, I digress. One way or another, something goes wrong and you fall a tier or two.

Enter in the dilemma. Now you're gaining 9-11 points for a win, and losing sometimes well over 20 (24-28) points for a loss. In other words, where a 10 game losing streak dropped you pretty low, a 10 game winning streak won't put you back where you were. In fact, if you're at 0 LP, a 10 game winning streak won't even get you a promo. At this point, you need to average a 75% win rate to even have a prayer of ever climbing back up to where you were. And even then, assuming you can hold that win rate, seeing how you're only averaging 4 points a game, you're going to need to play 25 games just to hit your promo (have to wonder how long it'd take the average player to get those in. Weeks certainly, I'd think). Also, keep in mind, the game is specifically designed to keep each match at a roughly 50% chance of winning for either side. And no matter how good you are, you're still only 1 player in 5. This means there would have to consistently be a MASSIVE difference in skill level between you and everyone else in the game for you to be able to have that dramatic of an affect on the overall games probable outcome.

Or to put things in a slightly different light, you go on a 9 game winning streak. Let's say you end up with 86 points (actual numbers for me recently). 3 losses nearly puts you right back at square one. Doesn't matter how close the games were. Doesn't matter your individual performance. And now, once again, you need another 9 game winning streak to end up in a promo to climb back to the tier you once were.

I was once 1 point away from hitting Silver 3. I got really ill, and stubbornly refused to play ranked. I was bored, I seriously dislike normals because, since there is less incentive to win, people are more likely to do foolish things that make no sense (ie picking up a mid lane champ even after a mid and support champ have been called and picked up, and then, inevitably, refusing to go anywhere but mid). People may rage more in ranked, but I find the skill level is generally higher making for more interesting play, and people seem less likely to troll (and/or do other ridiculous things). People want to win. Long story short, I lost it all and fell to Silver 5. Twice in the last two weeks I've gone on massive winning streaks in ranked, 10 and 9 games respectively, only to fall right back to, or near, 0 LP due to just a few losses.

This is elo hell. This is also I'm absolutely certain why you can find Bronze 3 adc's who are far and away better than some adc's you find in the Silver range. Not necessarily the norm, but I've absolutely seen it.

TLDR: It is very much statistically possible, and even probable, to end up in a so called 'elo hell' through no fault of your own with little to no hope of getting out barring a ridiculous amount of time and effort.

15 Comments

Monzie4 votes

The ranked system is incredibly bad. Matchmaking is not "equal" in any game. 90% of games are either stomp or be stomped-- the other HUGE problem is duo queue Bronze players with Plat or Diamond. This BS has ruined the game to the point players CANNOT rank up according to their skill because they end up in games where they have to beat higher division carries to move up to lower divisions.

EXAMPLE: I just had a promo series Silver 2-Silver 1, lost 2 games, when I checked the records of all players my team averaged silver 3, theirs averaged Gold 4 across the team... what kind of trash Matchmaking is that?

Note to Riot: FIX MATCHMAKING BY ONLY ALLOWING PLAYERS TO PLAY IN GAMES WITH PPL FROM THEIR OWN SECTION AKA IF YOU ARE SILVER, YOU PLAY WITH SILVER PLAYERS--- NOT GOLD, NOT BRONZE, ETC. The ranked queue system is complete trash the way it is for any chance to move up. I should not have to defeat Gold 3 and Plat 4 players to move up to GOLD 5. Uninstalling after this comment because this game is just junk like it is atm.

Amak2 votes

I'm cool with a +-3 spread, so a Silver I player could duo with players anywhere from Silver IV to Gold III. That seems competitively fair.

Monzie2 votes

Here's the problem, the matchmaking doesn't give you a balanced team. You end up vs. duo queues with high elo players on AD carries. If the teams averaged out, it would be fine, but I kept getting games where my team was an average of 3 divisions lower per player. That's bad matchmaking, and it means that I would have to hyper carry to win a game like that. It's pretty hard to carry that hard when your team is statistically likely to lose all lanes.

Monzie1 votes

I agree that +3 spread would be fine. But yeah the prob is where you get like Bronze 3 with Plat 3...

Poseidons Law2 votes

This man speaks much truth I've been stuck in s5 since around the middle of season 3 (mind you i started out in s2 and got a promo to advance to s1) little did i know that there are still trolls in ranked (I once played a match with a Garen that didn't afk he just stood in base and bought items.... yeah) i sunk to s5 and I've continually been struggling to rise up the ranks i get on average 11-12 points for winning and i lose all the lp i get in one or 2 loses its complete and utter BS i hope for season 4 riot thins of a different system

and plese keep the divisions SEPERATE bronze. vs bronze silver vs silver etc etc

Ozbirta1 votes

The matchmaking system is about as good as it can be. If you don't understand how it works, it can look lopsided, but it is matched by MMR, not divisions/tiers/lp. It tracks not only a player's overall, but their current trend also plays into it. If players are duo'ed, they take the average MMR of the two of them and add then add another bit of coefficient to compensate for the fact that they are most likely using some kind of voip and should have better communication.

Another reason you seem to have all stomps is because you are in silver. People don't really know too well how to keep the other team from snowballing in silver. They will die level 2, then come back to lane and die again at level 3, thinking they can outplay their opponent still. It's funny that you could say "every game is a stomp, matchmaking must be broken when it's entirely possible that the same group of 10 players could play against each other again and it be a stomp the other way, just because of how the game started and the snowballing tipped in the other direction.

Just by your post, I can tell that you are not a person I would like on my team just from the abruptness of your posting style. You could probably go up in tiers just from changing the way you address other players.

signed, a concerned diamond player

Chromosomes2 votes

this is so true

ELO Method2 votes

I posted a thread about this a month ago. So I really want this one to get bumped. Sometimes in ranked the other team gets absolutely SLAUGHTERED without any chance of winning, and that's no fun at all! Other times, your team gets their a** handed to them on a silver platter, which also isn't fun in the slightest. LOLNexus it, and you'll see that eight times out of ten, you end up queued with/against people up to 10 TIERS above or below you. Ultimately this horrible matchmaking system decides whether you win or lose. Please Riot, match make me with people REMOTELY in my ELO. Thank you.

Ozbirta2 votes

Thought I'd post my own experience and some counter-logic.

I was just in my plat 1 clamp. To illustrate where I'm coming from, I was at 96 lp, and here were my next few games:

win: +2, 98

win: +1, 99

loss: -3, 96

win: +2, 98

win: +1, 99

win: +0, 99

win: +0, 99

win: +0, 99

win: +0, 99

win: +0, 99

win: Entered promos. went 3-2 to hit diamond

So I had to go 13-3 from 96lp plat 1 to hit diamond. I understand the struggles of matchmaking. It isn't fun at all sometimes. Every game I won when I was getting +0 I wanted to shoot someone. But I made it.

Ok, moving on. Your scenario when you lose 10 in a row and drop a whole bunch of mmr, and start gaining 10 per win, and losing 20 per loss: You MUST remember, your mmr is going to start shifting up again as soon as you start winning more than 50% of your games. You don't need to win an average 75% of your games to climb. Immediately? Maybe, but after your first couple wins, your mmr starts juicing you up a bit and you start winning 13-14/losing 16/17. You don't need to be anywhere close to 75% winrate to keep your mmr (and thusly, your LP) going up. Just be above 50% on average and you will rise.

If what you said is true about going on ten win steaks, then losing all your LP in a couple losses, your MMR is abysmal. But keep playing and winning, and that MMR will go up, and you won't lose as many per loss, and will start getting much bigger gains. Just keep a cool head, don't go on tilt and start raging when you lose, and take a break if you need one. You will go up if you should go up. Make sure to take note of your mistakes, and don't blame your losses on your teammates, there is always something you could have done different.

Hope this helps someone.

signed, diamond player with a LOT of games

theTyger1 votes

TLDR: It is very much statistically possible, and even probable, to end up in a so called 'elo hell' through no fault of your own with little to no hope of getting out barring a ridiculous amount of time and effort.

theTyger4 votes

Possible solution: The system is currently set up to keep people from 'sandbagging' (ie purposely losing a ton of games to lower their elo and be able to climb the elo ladder afterwards, faster). Which I'm kind of fine with. But after a set amount of games, or time, the ladder system should reset for your account. ie gaining 20 points per win and losing 20 points per loss. Or even 18 points per win, 22 points per loss. Something that doesn't require something as asinine as a 13 game winning streak to pull yourself out of the hole you've fallen into.

You shouldn't have to work harder than someone else in a similar tier to make the same amount of progress.

Lazenby1 votes

Want to get out of ELO hell. Play 3000 ranked games. There is no way you can say that the system is unfair after 3000 games. The statistical anomalies work themselves out over a long enough stretch. If you are still in Bronze/Silver 5, sorry...that's where you belong...really.

Monzie3 votes

You go ahead and waste your time with the 3k games. I'm done :)

Nezbeck1 votes

Your numbers are EXTREMELY liberal compaired to what i face in ELO hell (its real) 2 lp for a win -6 for a loss... this is my ranked life...

PopesDeathGlaze1 votes

My ranked experience is very limited but, I have seen things that baffle beyond all reason. I understand matches are based on MMR but how does a plat player get matched with silvers? I am silver IV atm in promos for III. I have been matched against a plat player before now how does that person have MMR equal to mine and still be in plat? It confuses me I am not a fan of it but I don't think it is inherently broken, just needs a few minor tweaks. As far as facing people above my league I like playing them and winning gives me hope that I am ready for a higher league and I can get there through hard work, learning, and patience. Just how I look at it. Remember also Riot had said that they are examining the system and hoping to improve it for S4, I don't remember where that post is but if you look at posts from around the end of S3 they mentioned it a few times.

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