Spear of Shojin. Remove it. The cooldown of those users isn't even THAT severe.

BeatzBoyFTW·Aug 18, 2019·42 votes·13,371 views

One of the most unnecessary item to include at all, especially when you made the decision to reduce down Jax's Q cooldown for whatever reason that even God can't think.

30 Comments

ReaversalAug 18, 201915 votes

Riot saw that some bruisers were buying the previous Essence Reaver (the one that had Shojin's passive originally). They were buying an item that gave a bunch of irrelevant stats and was thus largely inefficient on them for just that passive.

I can't fathom why anyone would look at that scenario and then think "you know, maybe we should give that item actual bruiser stats so it'll be even better on them".

Pierce The VealAug 18, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Riot saw that some bruisers were buying the previous Essence Reaver (the one that had Shojin's passive originally). They were buying an item that gave a bunch of irrelevant stats and was thus largely inefficient on them for just that passive.

I can't fathom why anyone would look at that scenario and then think "you know, maybe we should give that item actual bruiser stats so it'll be even better on them".

How about we consider the opposite perspective, in the case of champions like Renekton , where it helped them actually not be useless?

The issue is the abuse by jax and riven and a few others. But the new shojin is actually by far worse of an item than the old essence, even if it has hp and looks superficially like it gives better stats. In reality, the old essence reaver was more gold efficient and gave more of the stats a bruiser wanted. In the case of jax and yi, it gave the unseen bonus of giving them infinite mana sustain. In the case of riven, it gave her more damage for cheaper.

SucctionAug 19, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pierce The Veal,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=95cBn4Ua,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-08-18T21:03:57.136+0000)

How about we consider the opposite perspective, in the case of champions like , where it helped them actually not be useless?

The issue is the abuse by jax and riven and a few others. But the new shojin is actually by far worse of an item than the old essence, even if it has hp and looks superficially like it gives better stats. In reality, the old essence reaver was more gold efficient and gave more of the stats a bruiser wanted. In the case of jax and yi, it gave the unseen bonus of giving them infinite mana sustain. In the case of riven, it gave her more damage for cheaper.

The price is the main factor here. Shojin is what, 3400 gold? Essence was just 3000.

Shojin isn't really any better than Essence Reaver was on these champions.

Regardless, however, I don't think either should exist. It breaks certain champions. It's like Ezreal's Q's problems condensed into just an item, and it forces them to be balanced around it just like how the entire jungle's items need to be balanced around Ezreal abusing them every season.

bluefire mark 2Aug 19, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Riot saw that some bruisers were buying the previous Essence Reaver (the one that had Shojin's passive originally). They were buying an item that gave a bunch of irrelevant stats and was thus largely inefficient on them for just that passive.

I can't fathom why anyone would look at that scenario and then think "you know, maybe we should give that item actual bruiser stats so it'll be even better on them".

Then you realize bruisers have 40% CDR without shojin and overcap a ton and waste part of it. It's stats are pretty bad.

ReaversalAug 19, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=bluefire mark 2,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=95cBn4Ua,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2019-08-19T03:18:44.052+0000)

Then you realize bruisers have 40% CDR without shojin and overcap a ton and waste part of it. It's stats are pretty bad.

The version of Essence Reaver that they were building had 20% CDR as well, so I don't see the point you're trying to make.

RagnarokmechAug 19, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=bluefire mark 2,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=95cBn4Ua,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2019-08-19T03:18:44.052+0000)

Then you realize bruisers have 40% CDR without shojin and overcap a ton and waste part of it. It's stats are pretty bad.

you realize that a lot of bruisers run Transcendence which in fact gives more stats.

ImTheJuggernautyAug 19, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=bluefire mark 2,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=95cBn4Ua,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2019-08-19T03:18:44.052+0000)

Then you realize bruisers have 40% CDR without shojin and overcap a ton and waste part of it. It's stats are pretty bad.

You're conveniently ignoring the Transcendence rune

bluefire mark 2Aug 19, 20192 votes

{quoted}

You're conveniently ignoring the Transcendence rune

Conveniently? Well no. Most bruisers take anything but sorcery though. So I'm not. Yes it's possible you can but it's not likely you are.

ImTheJuggernautyAug 19, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=bluefire mark 2,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=95cBn4Ua,comment-id=0003000100020000,timestamp=2019-08-19T20:26:50.794+0000)

Conveniently? Well no. Most bruisers take anything but sorcery though. So I'm not. Yes it's possible you can but it's not likely you are.

Maybe i'm just dumb then, but I like to take transcendence and gathering storm on darius

IainG10Aug 19, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Riot saw that some bruisers were buying the previous Essence Reaver (the one that had Shojin's passive originally). They were buying an item that gave a bunch of irrelevant stats and was thus largely inefficient on them for just that passive.

I can't fathom why anyone would look at that scenario and then think "you know, maybe we should give that item actual bruiser stats so it'll be even better on them".

Especially after they decided that the changed ER was a bad item itself....

Divin1tyAug 18, 201910 votes

Stormrazor left no choice, since every ADC was forced to build it, since it is/was such a good first Item.

ihateyouallmutedAug 18, 20199 votes

It has no justification for existing. All users who are already highly picked and strong without the item.

PzyXoAug 18, 20195 votes

What about your mother fucking adcs using grasp ?

Sewer SideAug 18, 20196 votes

{quoted}

What about your mother fucking adcs using grasp ?

Grasp is a joke on ADCs.

I’ve tried it several times on Caitlyn (easiest to get stacks on) and there is zero reason to pick it over Fleet.

At best, you’re getting a Ruby Crystal worth of gold in HP in a full length game. Fleet has better syngergy with RPC

Aatrox AirlinesAug 18, 20193 votes

{quoted}

What about your mother fucking adcs using grasp ?

Adcs use grasp? Where?

XonraAug 19, 20194 votes

Given that only a few people use it, and the ones that do ABUSE it, yeah, it is a pointless item aside from the few that abuse it.

AletheiacracyAug 18, 20192 votes

Lol. Put one on Ashe with PoM and Ulti Hunter.

RagnarokmechAug 19, 20192 votes

they need to add an item that fills the gap between Black cleaver and Spear of shojin not remove it, maybe Atma's impaler?

DUDE BROAug 19, 20192 votes

It's an item that was designed for, and can only be used by 5-7 champs in the entire game.

There's no other item like that except for this one. Why?

Pretty much any item is perfectly usable on at least half the champs in the game... except spear.

Jesi OniAug 18, 20191 votes

Pff... Remove all items and play it like HOTS. Niche items like item 3161 on Jax/Whatever or item 3025 on Ezreal picked instead of the same meta builds that everyone is making on the rest out of 100+ champions and POOF problem detected.

I would actually bring old item 3095 to make stuff more interesting. There is almost no choice in the shop.

ThisName1sDumbAug 19, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jesi Oni,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=95cBn4Ua,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-08-18T16:03:19.841+0000)

Pff... Remove all items and play it like HOTS. Niche items like on Jax/Whatever or on Ezreal picked instead of the same meta builds that everyone is making on the rest out of 100+ champions and POOF problem detected.

I would actually bring old to make stuff more interesting. There is almost no choice in the shop.

That would be pretty interesting, league without items. Some champs would be so strong compared to others. Garen would be so tanky compared to how much damage everyone would be doing with his 50 armor and mr from w. Oh man, Nasus, Veigar, Cho'Gath, Sion, all those stacking people would be stupid strong as well, actually doing a lot of damage/ being tanky compared to everyone else.

Crescent DuskAug 19, 20191 votes

Remove the damn shield from phantom dance while we're talking about busted items, and remove the damage delay from death's dance if it's going to keep that healing.

Can also remove the AD from GA.

Serika ZeroAug 19, 20191 votes

removing it would be quite bad tbh. Yes, the item is broken on shit like Jax which gets waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to much out of it. But the main issue with this item is not its effect, but the uptime.

Like how you got 120 seconds cd on zhonias, but spear has 30s coolown...

Lord DusteonAug 19, 20194 votes

[{quoted}](name=Serika Zero,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=95cBn4Ua,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-08-19T04:10:51.872+0000)

removing it would be quite bad tbh. Yes, the item is broken on shit like Jax which gets waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to much out of it. But the main issue with this item is not its effect, but the uptime.

Like how you got 120 seconds cd on zhonias, but spear has 30s coolown...

Removing it would be fine. It sees use on basically only Jax, Riven, Master Yi, and Renekton, and only Jax and Renekton consistently buy it (Master Yi buys it once every 16 games, Riven once every 7).

Jax and Renekton both do not need a additional item almost custom made for them. They can survive with having some actual downtime for their CC and mobility instead of the degeneracy Spear allows.

Aatrox AirlinesAug 19, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Serika Zero,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=95cBn4Ua,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-08-19T04:10:51.872+0000)

removing it would be quite bad tbh. Yes, the item is broken on shit like Jax which gets waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to much out of it. But the main issue with this item is not its effect, but the uptime.

Like how you got 120 seconds cd on zhonias, but spear has 30s coolown...

Spear cd is bound to your ult cd which is usually over a minute. Plus mages get cosmic insight to reduce zhonyas cd

Serika ZeroAug 21, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Aatrox Airlines,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=95cBn4Ua,comment-id=00080001,timestamp=2019-08-19T12:11:55.575+0000)

Spear cd is bound to your ult cd which is usually over a minute. Plus mages get cosmic insight to reduce zhonyas cd

well, imost ults have around 60-90 second cooldowns at lv16 chara (lv3 ult). Add 40% cdr to that and you got 90x0.6 = 54 second cooldown at most. That's way below what any cosmic insight + stopwatch rune can do for a mage. Seriously, that's my only issue with an item. Lets say there's a team fight, we somehow avoid the user and kite back. But then 30-50 seconds later, we get another team fight with everyone having ults off cooldown and: zhonias still on CD, QSS still on CD, pretty much every other active except item 3814 on cooldown... and then the spear user runs over us all. It just needs a bit more downtime and it would an ok item.

Aatrox AirlinesAug 19, 20191 votes

Bruisers need their own 'power multiplying' item. Crit adcs have ie. On hit champions have rageblade. Mages have rabadons. Bruisers now have shojin. Whats the big deal all of a sudden? Like, yeah sure its unfair on jax but he and renekton would be a steaming pile of goat shit without it. Unless you want huge stat buffs to jax and renekton, this item is the way to go.

BeatzBoyFTWAug 19, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Aatrox Airlines,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=95cBn4Ua,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2019-08-19T12:15:20.599+0000)

Bruisers need their own 'power multiplying' item. Crit adcs have ie. On hit champions have rageblade. Mages have rabadons. Bruisers now have shojin. Whats the big deal all of a sudden? Like, yeah sure its unfair on jax but he and renekton would be a steaming pile of goat shit without it. Unless you want huge stat buffs to jax and renekton, this item is the way to go.

item 3078 item 3071 This. This is what bruisers already have. For 9 Seasons straight. Don't act like they had nothing like how they didn't have a proper rune after the introduction of Rune Reforged.

ImTheJuggernautyAug 19, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Aatrox Airlines,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=95cBn4Ua,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2019-08-19T12:15:20.599+0000)

Bruisers need their own 'power multiplying' item. Crit adcs have ie. On hit champions have rageblade. Mages have rabadons. Bruisers now have shojin. Whats the big deal all of a sudden? Like, yeah sure its unfair on jax but he and renekton would be a steaming pile of goat shit without it. Unless you want huge stat buffs to jax and renekton, this item is the way to go.

This is an inherently flawed argument. You say "bruisers need their own power multiplying item." As if SoS is for all or even most bruisers. As many have mentioned, very few bruisers and skirmishers use it, but the ones who do, ABUSE it and break the game. Jax, yi, renekton, riven.

And your spiel about jax is a complete steaming pile of bullcrap. Jax is incredibly strong even without SoS. He's not even weak earlygame anymore. The difference is that without SoS, he'd actually have to wait until the late game to become incredibly OP, instead of the early parts of mid game.

And renekton would maybe be a little weak, but he'd still be just fine in lane.