With Liandry's getting buffed, Brand really needs to be tuned.

iPooUnicorns·9/26/2018, 2:59:08 AM·15 votes·26,102 views

It's no secret that Brand can do a ton of damage with nothing other than levels. Yet his scaling is incredibly lackluster, which makes his early game performance much less important than it should be on a high damage mage.

Even if he's incredibly behind or on Support income, he'll still do plenty of damage in a fight thanks to his insane base damage. His AP Ratios are almost irrelevant, when he's mid he doesn't need to get high AP items because his passive and R need 1000+ AP to deal more damage than their base damage, making magic penetration/DoT enhancement the best damage source every game.

Why? Look at his base damage vs scaling (all sourced from the league wikia):

Passive Part 1: Brand's abilities set his targets ablaze upon damaging them each second, dealing 4% of their maximum health as magic damage over 4 seconds, stacking up to 3 times, for a maximum of 12% of their maximum health over the duration, and empowering his abilities against them.

Entirely base damage, no scaling.

Passive Part 2: At 3 stacks, an area around the target is marked, which explodes after 2 seconds. All enemies struck are dealt 12% - 16% (based on level) 「 (+ 1.5% per 100 AP) 」 of their maximum health as magic damage. The explosion will still trigger if the target dies to the third ability or during the delay.

For the damage from the AP ratio to come close to the base damage, he would need more than** 1000 AP**.

To summarize, his passive gives all of his abilities 12% max HP damage over 4 seconds, and in a "perfect combo" (each spell landing on the 4th second of the DoT) of 3 basic abilities, it will deal 48-52% max HP, no AP required.

Q: MAGIC DAMAGE: 80 / 110 / 140 / 170 / 200 (+ 55% AP)

Average base damage and AP ratio, but it isn't really a "damage" spell. AP needed to match the base damage is ~363 AP.

W: MAGIC DAMAGE: 75 / 120 / 165 / 210 / 255 (+ 60% AP) INCREASED DAMAGE: 93.75 / 150 / 206.25 / 262.5 / 318.75 (+ 75% AP)

Here we find his only spell with a decent AP ratio, but it already has high base damage. AP needed to match the base damage is 425 AP.

E: MAGIC DAMAGE: 70 / 90 / 110 / 130 / 150 (+ 35% AP)

Low base damage and low AP ratio, but it's a point click spell, it shouldn't do much damage AP needed to match the base damage is ~ 429 AP.

R: MAGIC DAMAGE: 100 / 200 / 300 (+ 25% AP)

Again, high base damage, bounces four times, can only bounce twice to a single target, leaving the AP ratio to have a max of 50% AP but a base 600 damage. AP needed to match base damage is 1200 AP.


Having such high base damage and bad AP ratios leads to an "ideal" Brand build looking like:

item 3092 if Support

item 3285 if Mid, and he really only needs a item 3802

item 3151item 3020item 3165item 3135item 3116

Really his biggest damage items are:

item 3020 for MPen item 3916 for MPen item 3151 for more %HP DoT - with buffs incoming too! item 3135 for MPen


While Brand should be able to deal a lot of damage, as it's the only thing he has to offer to his team, he shouldn't get the majority of it for free. Nerfs to his base damage and increases to his AP ratios needs to happen. This won't exile him completely from bot lane, it would just make it riskier and wouldn't give him a free ride into mid game. Additionally he should have more access to builds like item 3285item 3151item 3089item 3135 when going mid lane, allowing him to choose between high damage and utility.

41 Comments

VG Crows9/27/2018, 7:28:57 AM10 votes

You are exaggerating Brand's inherent power and are clearly unaware of Brand's issues as a mage all the while suggesting about possible "solutions" to his damage. This issue has already been discussed in a similar Gameplay post some time ago, so I'll repeat the answer. Brand does NOT NEED his AP ratios increased and base damage nerfed. Doing this will not solve anything. First: Brand has had high base damages ALL ALONG even pre rework. And it might sound obvious to you, but this is what Brand has been all about IN EVERY ITERARION: DAMAGE. Does he bring good utility with it? No,hardly. Does he bring mobility? Not at all. Can he peel/save his botlane teammate as reliably as other supports,for instance comparing him with similar damage oriented support, Zyra? No,he can't. All he brings to the table is DAMAGE, BASE DAMAGE that is and this has been his moto for ages,both on mid and support. It's what he is meant to do and what differentiates him from majority of mages who can't do nearly the same. You are basically trying to kill his identity.

Secondly: him transitioning to botlane support from mid (which is sad btw) all of a sudden is a result of two things: a) Damage abundance in the game and overall bad game state ; b) His lack of decent waveclear when compared to majority of mages(I can copy-paste my own upvoted answer to Riot Maple Nectar if you wish about it). The latter enhances the effect of the first. How is this beaten up solution of increasing his ratios would solve his lackluster waveclear? The ONE MAJOR thing that is holding him from going on mid? Moreover, midlane as of now is infested with assassins. Brand just can't contest with lackluster waveclear and insane vulnerability to mobile BS. Hence,you see him botlane.

Thirdly: past a certain elo, somewhere between P1-D4 to be exact, you seldom see Brand. Personally I maybe see him once every 30 games. Maybe. Why does he seem powerful in elos Plat and below? Because people group more often,fight more often, and don't play optimally enough to counter what Brand wants to do in teamfight. Hence he looks powerful. While the truth is,when it comes to optimal play, Brand is WEAK. JUST damage paired with immobility and low utility becomes not nearly enough for consistent good performance. Liandry buff might be unnecessary, but just because an item Brand has built since forever is enhanced, doesn't mean you need to nerf an already underperforming in optimal play champion. Also when did Riot last nerf a champion because item they were using is broken on them? Stormrazor Jhin is being abused since forever yet nothing is being done about it. Same thing here,except Liandry doesn't break Brand as hard as Stormrazor does Jhin.

Finally, Brand is not the top problem in the game right now, not even the mid problem this game has. There are way worse issues happening that must be addressed ASAP but Brand is completely not one of those.

Closing in9/26/2018, 9:13:48 AM6 votes

All that damage comes for a cost though he gets punished pretty hard for the animation time of his abilities as he cant move while casting them like most champions which puts him in a weak spot already, not to mention that his w and q are skillshots and most people already understand that they shouldn't be together to prevent his ult from bouncing and proc'ing his passive thats why he's even played as support and no longer seen on mid lane also even as sup have an all in champ like leona/thresh against him wait for a gank, perma cc him and this game will be pretty much 6v4

Kídá9/27/2018, 6:55:26 PM2 votes

To summarize, his passive gives all of his abilities 12% max HP damage over 4 seconds, and in a "perfect combo" (each spell landing on the 4th second of the DoT) of 3 basic abilities, it will deal 48-52% max HP, no AP required.

each ability landed grants a stack so each ability will deal an additional 4% max HP damage, not 12% for each ability so in a perfect combo he would deal 24-28% max hp damage, not 48-52% max hp damage. Being able to deal 48-52% max hp damage at level 3 would be insane. How this post got approved while containing incorrect information is beyond me.

Additionally Lowering his base damage and increasing his ratios is always the "solution" people come up with to "balance" brand when in reality all that will do is make him require more items and therefore more gold which he can't afford as support while still having the same issues in mid making the dumpster the only viable place he can go.

Nhifu10/1/2018, 4:29:05 AM2 votes

The game will never fit in an immobile mage, with a 2 step requirement stun.

Theleon10/1/2018, 10:20:40 AM1 votes

All that and his long range kit.. it's really hard to play against such a champion in botlane. Even in mid. His W is irritating.

BlinkZZ18210/3/2018, 3:45:01 PM1 votes

Sounds good. What if I build item 3020 item 3165item 3098 then full tankitem 3110 item 3001 item 3083 on support brand, does that work

Hibeki10/8/2018, 5:58:40 AM1 votes

He only gets 12% max hp on three stacks, its 4% each

Jetboost10/15/2018, 9:18:41 PM1 votes

As i read some of the coments over here why not rework his passive? On a sidenote don't really play the guy but i think this might do good to his playstyle.

The explosion is cool though i'd like to keep it but i do want to take some power away from it to make it so that every spell he casts leaves a area of effect behind in the area it passes or is cast in. This area of effect will burn (seperate from the burning stack) and damage(% or ap scaling wise or both) enemies every second within and apply a stack of burn. His E thus needs to change as well this will make it even more so that he can damage the wave better. Make it so that brand when Brand uses its E on a burning target or on his AoE burning field, that an circle of flame slow to fast grows from that point only the outline of the circle should burn though and this circle should be a bit bigger than his W. Exploding enemies leave behind a W patched size AoE. AoE fields are seperate but don't stack their damage.

This does make him more powerfull so his manacost(or cooldowns) should perhaps become a slight bit higher. But in the end it would fit the"Set the whole world aflame" image better in my oppinion.

5050BS10/16/2018, 9:19:16 PM1 votes

Yep

Basically you get nicked by one of his spells and you take 27% of your max hps as magic damage

His % hps needs to all scale off his AP and MAXING out at 20% WITH Liandry at like 800-900 AP

LilxPaprika10/19/2018, 11:42:11 PM1 votes

perhaps a better solutions rather than try and shoehorn heroes when they are fine except for some one or two items. this feature might be a better approach: https://docdro.id/qG5Y6Ka

perhaps the feature could have it such that it actually takes away stats as well from a hero that could abuse it. or revert to old item 3151 and buff give a slew of heroes their own specific bonus when equipping item 3151

TomiMan711/1/2018, 11:52:37 PM1 votes

Aaaaaaand here we are a months later or more, and Brand is yet to be broken, abused or rocking any out of the line winrate. Man ppl should actually spend time learning to play against him.

Noxo11/2/2018, 7:22:33 PM1 votes

Has anyone seen the Sunfire tank brand montage yet? Yeah. IT exists.

ModKnightsKemplar9/27/2018, 1:04:51 AM1 votes

Approved!

Minimac20009/27/2018, 8:07:31 PM1 votes

I'm pretty sure Malzahar could be ok though, considering how he's like not a champ without his ult lol giving his basic abilities a slight bump from the liandry's change could be nice

Khristophoros9/30/2018, 1:51:16 AM1 votes

Personally I would like to see a power shift away from %hp towards AP scaling and additional durability so he can be stronger in mid. His mid lane winrate dropped this patch despite the buff to Liandry's.