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yasuo could get some love

Knight SoIaire ··8 votes·1,245 views

From all the things that dont involve a rework i think that reversing the shield nerfs and attack speed scaling of his q would be the safest imo.

You made it almoust impossible for him to get to mid game without feeding or simply dropping the lane because he cant compete for it, even if he gets babysitted he needs to get 5k gold and his 2 core items to become an actual threat, which isnt possible in mentioned phase of the game.

As far as i played him i noticed 2 wrecking problems, yasuo cant survive the laning phase, and yasuo scales too slow and requires too big items to stand up on his own after jungler helps him, ofc you can jump around like mad and get that free dmg off but you will just push the lane and its still possible for you to lose the trade due to your short hp bar (yasuo deals sustained dmg so a bursty midlaner might just pulverize him before he does anything scary, and 90% of midlaners relies on burst).

When i look at hp nerf without taking the rest of his nerfs into account i actualy like it, it reduced the opressivness of his kit without hitting anything that describes him (he cant trade early just because his hp bar is too short, while late game his shield fills the gap), bah it even allows to increase the importance of shield managment because he cant take blows straight on his hp bar.

But as far as the hp nerf is effective and good in my opinion, the nerfs he recieved before are what makes him unable to do anything. Shield is nonexistant, he doesnt get it as often as he needs, and it cant block anything (mainly because it expires so fast). His q's cd doesnt scale with champion lvl enough, its the centre of his kit and he has very limited acces to it till he spends 5700 gold and i mean the full value of botrk and static (ofc we assume that he doesnt spam daggers like mad becuase it makes no sence), without both im 100% sure that you wont get below 2 sec cd on his q at lvl 18 .

The nerf broke him indeed, but i personaly think that he is in the best spot to expose his uniqueness, theme and overall ballance him.

49 Comments

Xemeron4 votes

Cause god forbid that a champion with a godlike lategame has a weak early game...

Direwolfiez1 votes

A few months ago someone complained that Trist was too weak in early and mid, and insisted that she be buffed so she'd be strong at all points in the game. This was pre-nerf Trist, too. Couldn't even make that crap up if I tried.

Moranda Kathr2 votes

Been playing Yasuo recently. I think he is really fun! But along with what you say he is to weak during the laning phase. For example: One of my recent games I was against a cho top (I like playing Yas top) and I was feeding not gonna lie, our udyr ganked twice died both times. Cho was a big beast. But what I have notice that after going 2-8 I finished my stattic shiv and my IE I ended up going legendary after a few minutes 10-8. That's his strength getting that damage from IE plus the crit damage bonus with the crit chance being 90% he is a beast. That is really his time to shine, but I think it is too severe. I ALWAYS end up pushing the lane trying to harrass getting my E stacks up some getting my whirlwind Q it is really bad for me to push up that much, their gragas ganked twice well and I died both times.

TL;DR His laning phase is to weak his mid game is to strong comparatively after getting IE and stattic.

TehNACHO3 votes

Ehh, your first problem is that you brought Yasuo top lane.

In top lane, none of Yasuo's defensive strengths are being put to good use, at least for his E and his W. Due to how much longer Top lane is compared to Midlane, if you screw up in any way, it's significantly harder to try to use your E defensively or for running away. Furthermore, not there aren't nearly as many heavy projectile users in top lane (like Cho'Gath, for example), so your W is close to worthless up there in many match ups.

Moranda Kathr1 votes

Yes his W is useless laining phase usually. But I like his level 2 fights when the enemy isn't really expecting it (low Silver mmr here guys) and if the opponent all-ins me I will have a slight edge on him of maybe a minute where I have my ult and he doesn't so if I get a good gank in that time it won't matter too much that he is ahead because I have one skill more than the enemy.

TehNACHO1 votes

Now see, the thing is why don't you just do that in mid lane?

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

cho doesnt scale so hard so indeed even when you feed you should do quite good but if you would be vs anyone who deals dmg on that top lane like wukong, riven renekton or whatever i think that they would just eat you till the late game, the same applies for midders, and here is what i think is the problem, your enemies will get items faster so your powerspike wont be so noticeable, this is what i find in my games, i get killed couple of times and my enemy has enough power to duel me even after i get my items

Moranda Kathr1 votes

It's not that I was getting the kills on Cho it was that I got my power spike, got into the mid game left my lane several times and the other team couldn't compete with me.

kanacho1 votes

You must have not played against a cho'gath with Mejai's then xD

kanacho2 votes

Your problem here, is that you DO NOT play against cho'gath as yasuo. Yasuo does not have the ability to deal with all of cho's early-game power and sustain. Cho is also a tank, which Yasuo does not like dealing with pre-ulti or pre-LW.

I rather Yasuo be weak early game and snowball late, then him being super good early-game and then super good mid-game, and then EVEN BETTER late-game. We don't need a champion who has absurd power all-game long, that would mean they have no weakness. This is why they updated lee's numbers a bit to emphasize his early-game power and have him fall off harder late, because a champion should not be stomping people so easily simply because they are inherently strong ALL GAME.

Stars Shaper1 votes

Yeah Cho reapes the hell out of Yasuo xD

Nausicäa 2 votes

You're gonna get downvoted by the bronze v circle jerk that still thinks hes a god tier champion.

I find him to be a pretty mediocre champion honestly.

His early game sucks and his late game isnt even that good. Hes quite strong in mid game if hes ahead/even but beyond that he needs some changes. Riots fail balance team basically gutted him for no apparent reason.

He wasnt even highly contested at worlds and they nerfed him afterwards. Why? Who the fuck knows, there is no logic behind Riots balance changes sometimes.

kanacho3 votes

His late game is stupid good. Just because yasuo in himself does not do all the damage, does not mean that he isn't completing wrecking the enemy team for your team. His ultimate CC's enemies AN ENTIRE SECOND longer (1 second of CC on 5 people can mean all the difference in a team fight). Not only that, Yasuo is one of those champions who scales so ridiculously well, that it's stupid to say he is not that great late game. His ultimate gives him MASSIVE armor penetration, meaning that he can shred even tanks down, and his passive gives him DOUBLE crit chance, meaning he gains even more power for itemizing which is something that comes with late-game. Now with his extremely stupid strong team-fight potential (especially that malphite Yasuo wombo-combo), and his ability to blow up even tanks (especially if he grabs an LW), he is by far one of the best scaling late-game champions in the entire game. If you do not see this happening, then what happened is that either the team with Yasuo got shut-down hard, or the person playing Yasuo is not playing him to his full potential.

Brenticus121 votes

But to CC all 5 people, you need all of them up in the air... That's only possible through a lucky Q or through good team composition and communication, which is rare in soloQ.

All the nerfs have turned him into a glass cannon that has to be in melee range at all times, dashing throughout the enemy and with no real escapes. He is basically a suicide bomber. Throw him at the ADC, he might kill him and die in the process, or he'll just die but wound the ADC. The only other thing he can do well is clean up fights, which all Hyper Carries do well, only most others do it better.

kanacho1 votes

Yeah, but with a team he is absurdly strong.

Direwolfiez2 votes

First of all...you're a level 17, so you're not even Bronze. Of course, I'm sure you're a Diamond I smurf, like everyone else I get queued with. [/sarcasm]

Second of all, before he got nerfed he was a friggin' monster. Ever played against pre-nerf Yasuo as anyone remotely squishy? It was a nightmare. Tanky stats and shield from his passive, ridiculous damage from his passive + Shiv, and annoying mobility. His kit had so much stuff packed into it that it was hard just to do decently against him if you didn't hard counter him. The nerfs he got were totally justified, and I'm sure he's going to continue to be in this state until he's reworked and his overloaded passive is gutted so his base stats can be buffed again.

Nausicäa 1 votes

First of all...you're a level 17, so you're not even Bronze. Of course, I'm sure you're a Diamond I smurf, like everyone else I get queued with. [/sarcasm]

Second of all, before he got nerfed he was a friggin' monster. Ever played against pre-nerf Yasuo as anyone remotely squishy? It was a nightmare. Tanky stats and shield from his passive, ridiculous damage from his passive + Shiv, and annoying mobility. His kit had so much stuff packed into it that it was hard just to do decently against him if you didn't hard counter him. The nerfs he got were totally justified, and I'm sure he's going to continue to be in this state until he's reworked and his overloaded passive is gutted so his base stats can be buffed again.

Unranked Bronze player, shocking.

Direwolfiez1 votes

Really, is ad hominems all you have? You didn't even bother addressing anything I said, all you did was LoLKing me and try to use that to discredit what I said.

If I'm Unranked Bronze, then why are my games filled with Silver and Gold players? I almost never duo-queue, so you can't claim that I do. Last time I duo'd was almost 4-5 months ago. Post from your main if you want to shit-talk, otherwise just be quiet.

Brenticus121 votes

Well, to be fair, you DID do the same to him.

Direwolfiez1 votes

He's either a smurf or a noob. Either way he's in no position to be talking down to me.

kanacho2 votes

This is why we play yasuo as a support Especially with Kalista coming out :)

Junkο1 votes

Riot just needs to fix what his ultimate can be chained too and then revert most of his other nerfs.

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

i never saw any weird cases, where skills that dont knock up would work with his ult so i dont know

Junkο3 votes

Really? You can ult to a Trundle pillar displacement, or Anivia wall, or Thresh and Blitz hooks, Darius pull, you can also ult to Syndras E and Namis Q, both of which are actually STUNS.

He can also ult to the target of Quinns E, why? I have no idea

Stars Shaper1 votes

It has been stated at his release that skills that makes your feet go off ground are considered knock ups.

Syndra's E is a knock back that adds a stun if a ball is hit. I don't recall the Namy bubble triggering it but i might be wrong on that, Quinn E also is a knock up.

Earl Eulrich1 votes

nah, they would need to seriously nerf the windwall finally - then they could add some strenght back to his kit. A Wall that can Zone an ADC lategame for 3,5sec blocks several thousand dmg in a clash, not to mention a lot of CC aswell. It would be stupid strong as an ultiamte-skill for a Support. As a basic skill on a melee-carry it´s just ridiculous.

Junkο2 votes

It would be stupid strong as an ultiamte-skill for a Support.

Braum has it on his E, and he can move it. Granted after the first kit it deals damage, but it still deletes projectiles and gives him 40% damage reduction and since he builds tanky it can easily reach at least 80% with his armor and MR.

I do agree Wind Wall is strong because Yasuo is a melee carry though but he is the only viable one because of it, and it has a very high cooldown and Yasuo will have to come into melee range to actually attack the ADC, and most meta like Tristana and Lucian will you go away from him at that point.

One thing Riot could do is make it's duration scale like Braum's shield does, since most likely you won't start putting further ranks till level 14.

Stars Shaper1 votes

In that case Yasuo would need a huge buff to other things also because his Ultimate deals really low damage and to profit of it Yasuo needs to stick on target for at least 2-3 more Qs.

Having it proc only on his knock up means that he needs the longest preparation ingame to set an ultimate, then to hit a telegraphed skillshot or either charge into the enemy team.

Do you really want to see his base stats sky rocketing or to have his skills dealing more damage or having more utility? Or His tankyness buffed?

Direwolfiez2 votes

Using his ult for pure damage is dumb. You use it to immobilize groups of people and get the armor pen. His ult shouldn't do tons of damage if he does tons of damage without it.

Stars Shaper1 votes

My consideration was that the change to how to proc it in his current situation would mean a compensation on other things that would make his percieved OPness pass from a skill to another.

Because if compensation doesn't happen then you have a senseless jungle cleaner that can come in just to KS a retreating enemy.

Junkο1 votes

100% AD scaling that gives 50% bonus armor pen and extends cc on the target by 3 seconds is so weak.

and i said things that aren't knock ups/backs, not only his

Stars Shaper1 votes

actually it procs ONLY on things that bring your feet off of ground. I'd like to see what examples would you bring in "things that are not knock ups/backs". I've heard about Nami bubble (intended to be a stun and not a knock up even if the skill looks like it) but I couldn't check it personally and for a period (before 2-3 patches) it didn't happen.

And btw, the CC provided from Yasuo R is 1 second, not 3 (stop giving wrong infos) and it really is a 1 second prolonged CC if he starts it right at the end of the first one (really unlikely to happen).

Also there are more cases in which his R doesn't proc even while spamming it, in range and while intended knock ups hit enemies, I'd like to see it fixed too.

Still you are ignoring how hard would be to get the Ultimate in while ALL other champions have it "free" in asense where they just need to spot the right occasion and click it. Yasuo has to check this, build it up and then hit the telegraphed skillshot.

Stars Shaper1 votes

Yasuo nowdays feels like he isn't even a champion but just a beefy minion with some skills.

I've been playing him a lot recently and in lane I went on 4/1 scores many times just to find myself unable to do anything unless my Team coordinated so well that we would have obliterated them no matter what.

Right now any ranged champion has enough harass to negate farm and presence in lane while any melee can simply jump on him and if he doesn't dash+flash back he is dead meat.

His last nerfs on the runspeed and hp made him impossible to play with because as for now it's getting nearly impossible to dodge skillshots if the enemy doesn't get them wrong by a large margin.

kanacho3 votes

I'll agree that Yasuo is really a team-dependent champion. I think this is the real issue here. He's not a champion that is meant to blow the entire team up just by himself. After all, this is a 5v5 game, not a 1v5 Play-the-most-broken-champion-to-win game. Yasuo's ultimate can easily win entire fights just with that additional second of CC, and his late-game power is absurdly strong in comparison to most AD-based champions. Grab a LW ontop of your I.E. and Statick, and once you activate your ultimate, your armor Pen goes through the roof turning even the most tanky armor-built champions into squishy high-HP targets.

Yasuo's Farming is perfectly fine against a lot of the shorter ranged ranged champions in particular. He's good against Vayne for example. His Q gives him enough poke range, and enough range to safely farm, while his W can pretty much shut-down any engages by projectile-based champions. Negating a brand fireball combo, or stopping an Anivia icicle should not be underestimated. He simply can't play extremely well against EVERY champion because he's a late-game champion and not designed to be super strong early game.

Stars Shaper1 votes

I'm not trying to say that he should be a 1vs5 champion. I'm saying that he is unable to do shit unless all the team behaves so well that they would win even if 4vs5.

I got many downvotes just because I said that Yasuo could need some buffs rverted or that the nerfs have hit him too hard. Yours is the only feedback I got (lack of arguments from most downvoters ftw).

Now, if instead of picking Yasuo you would have picked Zed, Talon, Fiora or whoever it would have been better for you and for your team.

To make another example, it would have been more profitable to add a skill to the other 4 champions and let them 4vs5 instead of having a Yasuo on the field.

He relies on others to do anything, he is TOO MCUH dependant on team compared to any other champion.

Direwolfiez2 votes

If you wanna talk about possible changes, gut his passive. It is the sole reason every other part of his kit was nerfed; that was pretty much the one part of his kit that was left alone. If you're so frustrated with his numbers nerfed, you have to give something up in exchange, or he'll just be as broken as he was before. Remove the crit chance and lower the duration of Windwall, or give it a set amount of health, and he's a lot less infuriating to play against, and will be less toxic than he was at release.

Stars Shaper1 votes

Just gutting it in the sense of plain nerf with the revert of other numbers would be the same as it is now with the difference that he can survive a bit longer but have no damage, meaning that he wouldn't have the damage needed to be effective.

I'm up for a revisit of it though. Making it either not so skyrocketing with 2 items or changing it into something more reliable.

Junkο1 votes

I honestly think the reason every part of his kit was nerfed is cause of his ultimate being able to be chained to half the CC in the game.

Brenticus122 votes

That really isn't that big of a problem though. Yes, the extra CC is game-changing and the fact that he blinks into it can create some chaos, but his passive is broken, yet it hasn't been addressed. Instead, they destroyed everything else about him, even the stuff that's thematically unique to him. The double passive isn't thematic, it's just one of those extra stats CertainlyT puts onto champions. And it's so gamebreaking. It should be nerfed down to 50-60% crit from 90% (75% on Q)and then have most of his base stats returned and increase the duration of his shield after it being proc'd.

Junkο1 votes

it's just one of those extra stats CertainlyT puts onto champions.

false. CertainlyT isn't the only one doing that, sure all of his champs have it but other champs like Azir get it too.

Also imagine Yasuo without his double crit and all his other nerfs reverted. Would he actually deal any damage by building Crit anymore? If anything it would make him to go full AD, and his ult scales of 100% AD and gives armor pen so that would make it even stronger.

Brenticus123 votes

CertainlyT is infamous for putting unnecessary stats onto champions rather than making them a little more straightforward. Unless the champion was your main, you probably wouldn't know some of these stats.

Also, I wasn't talking about removing his double crit. Currently, his crits are 90% effective on basic attacks and 75% effective on his Qs. Meaning, he does 90% and 75% of the original crit damage. The fact that he can reach 100 crit chance so easily means that even though he's at 90%/75% crit damage, it's constant damage that's makes him terrifyingly powerful. His basic attack crits should be reduced to 80 or 70 percent and his Q crits to 50-60%.

Trust me, I used to main him as a mid laner and used to be pretty good. After the most recent nerf, even though I can still do well, the chances of it not being tedious to do and me not becoming a suicide bomber come late game are pretty low. It's not that fun to play him now. The only way he steamrolls now is if he's up against champions that he counters completely (TF, Xerath, Vel Koz). Skill matchups are now always NEVER in his favour. I used to have fun when I played against a Zed. It was purely skill-based with a slight advantage for Zed pre-6 because of his superior poke. Now it's barely a skill matchup.

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

I'm saying that he is unable to do shit unless all the team behaves so well that they would win even if 4vs5.

this sentence describes all the up champions

most of them are able to do something but you need to work harder in order to get the same results abd by work harder i mean that you have to play like a diamond in gold ranked games, im not taking stuff like mechanical dificulty into consideration

kanacho1 votes

Really, it's not that hard. You just need someone to initiate with a knock-up and not mess it up. He can take over at that point, and the communication required is quite minimal. Malphite or Orianna make great partners for Yasuo and he can do extremely well and almost guarantee a victory on a well-initiated team fight unless you team has been doing absolutely horrible all game.

Yasuo's contribution to a team fight can be tremendous and you can't ignore the fact that he increases the CC duration on a potential 5 people by 1 second, and then gains absurd armor penetration ontop of his high scaling itemization which will allow him to explode even tanky targets which can be difficult for teams. If that prolonged CC allows you to kill the ADC safely or another high-priority target, it can mean all the difference in a team fight.

Junkο3 votes

I think the problem is you, not Yasuo. He just isn't as simple to play as he was before his 10th nerfs. Now he actually requires skill. He is a bit too team dependent, but if he wasn't he would be so broken if he also had a knockup team backing him up.

Right now any ranged champion has enough harass to negate farm and presence in lane

I heard putting at least one point into Wind Wall by level 3 and using it to only block harass you know you can't dodge helps.

Stars Shaper1 votes

Unfortunally for you I am talking by plaing on both fronts of the matter. I'm telling you that even with the problems I clearly see I am able to go away from laning phase with a more than decent score. Last time was a 4/0 against a Malzahar (some1 that can really sit on Yasuo if he manages to dodge his 3rd Q). But even that I had to put efforts that were not justified in order to keep being effective.

Also, about the wall part, No shit that I put points in it and try to benefit from it most and try to lure enemies, unfortunally his CD is extremely high (I'm not saying it should be lower, I find this part of him pretty balanced). But any ranged champion has free harass on him. My main ranged champion is Xerath (I don't fear much his wall since it only locks my E), and with him I can AA him to death and other ranged can lure the wall as well as Yasuo can lure a full combo so it's a matter of skill and not something always in favor of Yasuo.

Now I used to find myself well on Yasuo after the nerfs up to this last one concerning his runspeed and HP. This part is highly subjective but now he is close to Varus in terms of runspeed and dodging Skillshots becomes nearly impossible without the wall down (which anyway blocks projectiles, not all the ranged things around as many seems to believe).

Junkο1 votes

I played Yasuo since release(even when he was considered UP) and can still play him decently well after countless nerfs. You would think champions with high poke would murder me in lane but they are actually really easy to kill. My MMR is terrible though so that might just be me playing against bad players though.

Stars Shaper1 votes

I'm playing him since release too, also I started picking him Top far before it was considered viable :) And I must say that I am more at ease with snipers (doing really good with Xerath and Varus) and tanky-likes like Morde and Taric. Squishy assassins are not in general something I excell at.

I am high silverish as Ranked rating but I'm playing mostly Team Builder (I don't like the stress of Rankeds and just played placements) and I'm meeting goldish ppl too. So yes the rating is still low and I find myself raping lanes that should be against me in every possible way. Skill is a really important factr against Yasuo and I must say that against one I've never ever had problems and won each time, even late game I could easily wait for him to expose to CC him and then proceed on setting the kill.

That said, I'm seeing the matter on the side of a skilled Lux/Xerath/Velkoz/etc and I see that on paper they have an enormous chance if taken carefully.

Potentially only Velkoz can have a hard time against Yasuo, even mages like Lux (another with 3 projectiles) can do more then good keeping her range under control.

I recall the LCS matches before the Yasuo nerfs (if we want to talk about high skill ppl involved) and apart of 2 games where Yasuo really did a carnage I saw that he was never a deciding factor and only cared about not feeding the enemy team.

As I said, pre nerf he was a really strong champion and I didn't blink an eye at the small nerfs he had. I just think that the HP and runspeed drop hit him in the wrong way and made him somehow much more dependant on team to a point where it's not worth put such efforts into him if with the same effort you can nearly win a match alone on another fighter/assa/mage.

Minuano1 votes

They didn't change the attack speed scaling on his Q; they changed the cast time on it.

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

yeah but it feels like it just requires more atack speed to get as fast as it should be

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