Champion identity

Knight SoIaire ·Feb 21, 2015·27 votes·4,508 views

because it all makes sence

seriously sometimes riot just wreck a champion because identity, but then when a champion has no identity they wont touch him, or wreck him harder than everything else

76 Comments

Ironclad DragonFeb 21, 201524 votes

Have you ever thought that Thresh saves his teammates so they can become stronger and grow to rely on him? Which makes his inevitable reaping of their souls all the sweeter?

Done25Feb 21, 20152 votes

Ha. That's a fun(ny) way to look at it I suppose. :P

I still wish his kit was more evil though.

AbrahamBaconhamFeb 21, 20159 votes

"No enemy is more hated than the former friend" and all that.

manbearswineFeb 22, 20156 votes

{quoted}

Have you ever thought that Thresh saves his teammates so they can become stronger and grow to rely on him? Which makes his inevitable reaping of their souls all the sweeter?

Yes,nobody would ever suspect a soul reaping undead to turn on them.

NOBODY.

ESPECIALLY NOT LUCIAN.

SlackerboyTCFeb 21, 201513 votes

I dunno why thresh was made, he's another lee sin for supports, he can do anything and everything with the support tier and its not fair to other supports in the game.

DJ Di0Feb 21, 20159 votes

{quoted}

I dunno why thresh was made, he's another lee sin for supports, he can do anything and everything with the support tier and its not fair to other supports in the game.

/And/ he'll never see any meaningful nerfs like Lee, either.

Riot has admitted they won't get nerfs because "but they're so fun to play!"

Now, of course another reason is because of the LCS, and it's understandable at least. They want more champions that look flashy and don't want viewers just to see 'non-flashy' or farm-fests (why there's a negative stigma to playing passively). Thresh and Lee are fun to play, yes, but they're way too generalist-champions. You can always pick them in almost any team comp and not suffer like other champions. Riot has nerfed other champions for that reason, but those two will most likely never be nerfed for that reason, even though they're the worst offenders.

SlackerboyTCFeb 21, 201510 votes

[{quoted}](name=DJ Di0,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PQEAEfVU,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-02-21T18:22:20.494+0000)

/And/ he'll never see any meaningful nerfs like Lee, either.

Riot has admitted they won't get nerfs because "but they're so fun to play!"

Now, of course another reason is because of the LCS, and it's understandable at least. They want more champions that look flashy and don't want viewers just to see 'non-flashy' or farm-fests (why there's a negative stigma to playing passively). Thresh and Lee are fun to play, yes, but they're way too generalist-champions. You can always pick them in almost any team comp and not suffer like other champions. Riot has nerfed other champions for that reason, but those two will most likely never be nerfed for that reason, even though they're the worst offenders.

And this is why i hate riot sometimes.

ThefriendlyorcFeb 21, 20152 votes

Thresh has been nerfed a shit ton. His kit is just well designed. He's not going to roll over a damage dealer, he just has decent tools to assist and support. He should be the bar that many supports should be balanced under.

DJ Di0Feb 21, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Thresh has been nerfed a shit ton. His kit is just well designed. He's not going to roll over a damage dealer, he just has decent tools to assist and support. He should be the bar that many supports should be balanced under.

And yet supports that approach him get nerfed; the only one who's avoided that has been Leona so far.

People said the same thing about Lee.

Jarvan starting to see a lot play and doing things as well as Lee? Nerf.

ThefriendlyorcFeb 21, 20155 votes

Janna was along the lines of Thresh and she's getting buffs. Lulu was only nerfed because her other lanes were too powerful, Braum is a great example of someone who was a tad too strong then got dialed back to an acceptable level. Morgana has been Thresh level for an entire season and she's not been even tickled.

DJ Di0Feb 21, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Janna was along the lines of Thresh and she's getting buffs. Lulu was only nerfed because her other lanes were too powerful, Braum is a great example of someone who was a tad too strong then got dialed back to an acceptable level. Morgana has been Thresh level for an entire season and she's not been even tickled.

Dude, you need to read that pbe update because those are nerfs lol. She has her same ms only when her W is up. Now that her passive doesn't affect herself, using W will drop you down movespeed severely.

RatbertFeb 21, 20152 votes

Janna was nerfed already, first her w cd, then her q width. Morgana is literally only strong because cc heavy all in's are popular bot.

manbearswineFeb 22, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Janna was nerfed already, first her w cd, then her q width. Morgana is literally only strong because cc heavy all in's are popular bot.

Not exactly,spellshield is also a stupid mechanic,a 3 second snare is a duration nobody else can bring,and she can easily shove/harass lane early with w,overall she is incredibly safe with a lot of lockdown and unique defense for her team,she is quite stupid in fact,but she wasn't exactly intended as a support,and is a very old champion(I mean it's back when they made poppy and sion,clearly mistakes were made).

RatbertFeb 22, 20151 votes

Well really, only in mid game-late game can she do those, especially since shoving the lane early is not exactly a good thing. It pushes the lane and you run the risk of stealing cs. Also, if you nerf her snare duration, you might as well remove her w and ult and give her only 2 skills. Or, you'd have to reduce the times of both to ensure that she's more than a walking skillshot. But, you can't do that because morg's balanced around zhonyas so you'd need to mess up too much.

When you think about it, morg is no worse than someone like leona or thresh. They all need to hit one odd hitbox and you're cc'd for about 3 seconds in total. You realize spellshield isn't actually that strong unless it's maxed or morg has lots of ap. If your support has any damage/poke, the shield's gone.

Morg was also intended as a secondary support, along the lines of lux. It was rare but still viable.

manbearswineFeb 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Well really, only in mid game-late game can she do those, especially since shoving the lane early is not exactly a good thing.

Ok It's time to to you a secret,a secret so well hidden that almost everyone knows about it: you most definitely want to shove the lane early in bot.

It pushes the lane and you run the risk of stealing cs.

please inform your adc to "git gud" then.

Also, if you nerf her snare duration, you might as well remove her w and ult and give her only 2 skills. Or, you'd have to reduce the times of both to ensure that she's more than a walking skillshot. But, you can't do that because morg's balanced around zhonyas so you'd need to mess up too much.

...not really? her w will get less ticks in,support morg doesn't care too much for that(do we even care about mid morg at this point?),her ult will be a bit harder to chain into her snare(we aren't talking about reducing it to 1 second,obviously.) as in most cases she ults after walking about to her target a bit(I guess you can increase the slow abit if you insist on it)

When you think about it, morg is no worse than someone like leona or thresh. They all need to hit one odd hitbox and you're cc'd for about 3 seconds in total. You realize spellshield isn't actually that strong unless it's maxed or morg has lots of ap. If your support has any damage/poke, the shield's gone.

Leona is melee,and is open to harass,not only that morgana can spam her cc intiation from a safe distance without much risk of getting baited,as far as thresh goes,yeah you are 100% right,morgana isn't worse then thresh,morgana is stupid,thresh is retarded.

Morg was also intended as a secondary support, along the lines of lux. It was rare but still viable.

morg was released so long ago that most of the standards by which champions today are created weren't relevant to her.

I think the best way to express my point is this: The current meta is retarded,made out of extreamly stupid champions(thresh/zed/lee/etc),and well,the only way a champion can compete with them is by being stupid himself,honestly,if it see's competitive play and it's not a top laner(was always problematic)/adc(the only role riot hasn't done an absolutely horrible job balancing(until kalista that is)) there's probably something horribly wrong with it(you don't think that a sensible well designed champion would be able to compete with lee/zed/thresh now would you?).

RatbertFeb 23, 20152 votes

Why on earth would you want to shove? That's exactly how you get ganked. It doesn't matter how much cs they lose if you die. CC also gets a lot more dangerous if you're pushed too.

Telling someone to git gud while two minions are dying at the same time does not enable them to shoot twice instantly. Asking them to waste mana for aoe skills is not a viable alternative.

Reducing her snare would mean that you would need her ult to slow more or activate slightly faster. But doing either could make her op with zhonyas.

Morg has a range of like 475. It's not like she depends on aa's do do her damage anyways, so it's not really a strength. The thing is, leo gets hard cc instead of soft in return for her committing.

manbearswineFeb 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Why on earth would you want to shove? That's exactly how you get ganked. It doesn't matter how much cs they lose if you die. CC also gets a lot more dangerous if you're pushed too.

Well,the easiest way to explain it is just watch any competitive game(or stream,whatever) without a lane swap,going more into details:

the jungler generally won't gank at level 2,so pushing early(levels 1-3) means you get a power spike at which point you can zone them and maybe kill them,once they are shoved to tower the adc will be forced to expend mana to cs(meaning he won't poke you) and his movement will become more predictable(to cs under tower) meaning it will be easier to poke him down,whereas the support will have issues doing much due to dragging creep aggro and a busy adc,poke them hard enough and depending on the jungler you may even be able to win 3v2,but regardless even if you let the lane even out later you will still have a cs advantage and some damage on them,note that if the jungler does come for any early gank that early in the game a big creep wave can be an issue for him,so you just shove early.

Telling someone to git gud while two minions are dying at the same time does not enable them to shoot twice instantly. Asking them to waste mana for aoe skills is not a viable alternative.

well if you shove your enemies they will have to spend mana for aoe skills as well...so...(or since the situation shouldn't happen too much,you will end up taking 2 cs from him,and your opponents will lose both more cs hp and mana farming under tower)

Reducing her snare would mean that you would need her ult to slow more or activate slightly faster. But doing either could make her op with zhonyas.

I don't really think that's the case,her ult is aoe anyway and her snare can only target one guy,so giving her a bit higher slow on her ult shouldn't do much.

Morg has a range of like 475. It's not like she depends on aa's do do her damage anyways, so it's not really a strength. The thing is, leo gets hard cc instead of soft in return for her committing.

Calling a snare soft cc(although techincally true) isn't very appropriate,the ability is very often a death sentence when it lands,and being ranged is being ranged,take away thresh's 450 range,see what that does to the retarded trash,but seriously 475 range is still a very big advantage over being melee,morg can and will bully leona with autoattacks.(among other things)

RatbertFeb 24, 20151 votes

You realize that if the support also focuses on farming with the adc and they synergize, it's trivial to farm under turret. Saying their movement will be predictable is moot if they have any semblance of dodging. It'll be no different in lane. Not every support needs to be aggro you know. It's actually a huge problem if the jungler ganks early because you've probably used your ward already and now that you're pushed up, they have two venues to gank from. Also, although one level up is substantial, if the opposing adc sees you constantly pooling minions, they'll just aa more often instead of just last hitting to keep up.

Her snare is huge for mid lane, when you usually use your ult for just that one guy. You'll need to address that if you change it.

The snare has a pitiful speed and the only thing it's got going is range and hitbox. If morg scares you so much get cleanse instead of heal, or get mercs. Just saying but getting hit by non-poke cc tends to be a death sentence. Saying morg's range is strong because she beats the melee supports is incredibly near sighted when you realize she innately counters them with her skill set and morg's counters are poke-y champs, who tend to have 550 range.

manbearswineFeb 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You realize that if the support also focuses on farming with the adc and they synergize, it's trivial to farm under turret.

Yes because the enemy adc and support are just watching you,oh wait,every time a creep gets low and you walk towards it a skill goes your way,sigh just open some diamond 1+ adc/support stream(note that if you cheese golem/gromp,it can make things different),you will see that the moment the adc/support walk in lane they immediately(both of them) start aaing creeps.

lolking even has some replays,here's one with two ranged supports(so you won't get confused whether a melee isn't pushing or is zoned from pushing) with no golem/gromp cheese http://www.lolking.net/replay/euw/1984678576 (basically skip to 2 mins,and watch 2-3 mins after that),feel free to look at any high level games,this is standard(instead of having this pointless argument with me,trying to prove to me something which is completely wrong) *as far as the golem cheese is concerned you tend to want to freeze as you know you will spike in power and can zone harder if the lane is frozen,the same goes if you somehow killed the support in proximity to the start of laning.

Saying their movement will be predictable is moot if they have any semblance of dodging.

fine,dodge the skill and miss cs.

It'll be no different in lane.

you see in lane a creep doesn't die every second because tower is attacking them.

Not every support needs to be aggro you know. It's actually a huge problem if the jungler ganks early because you've probably used your ward already and now that you're pushed up, they have two venues to gank from. Also, although one level up is substantial, if the opposing adc sees you constantly pooling minions, they'll just aa more often instead of just last hitting to keep up.

exactly,they will,and so will the enemy support,and your support,that's why it's a race to see who pushes the other first.

Her snare is huge for mid lane, when you usually use your ult for just that one guy. You'll need to address that if you change it.

mid morg maxes w first,so if her q is just made a constant 2.25,mid morg won't care too much about that in laning.

The snare has a pitiful speed and the only thing it's got going is range and hitbox. If morg scares you so much get cleanse instead of heal, or get mercs.

Oh man,only range and hitbox,and base damage,and duration,hell old nidalee had only range(well and damage,but you didn't mention that),still made her op as shit,and again with this idiotic solutions,how about i just rush qss and get it over with? then immediatly build a ga,see them trying to lock me down now,eahueahueahuea.

Just saying but getting hit by non-poke cc tends to be a death sentence. Saying morg's range is strong because she beats the melee supports is incredibly near sighted when you realize she innately counters them with her skill set and morg's counters are poke-y champs, who tend to have 550 range.

yes fair enough,she has lane shove,harass,range,and lockdown,that's enough,remove black shield then. no? then you get idiotic shit which can compete with thresh.

RatbertFeb 24, 20151 votes

So basically, push until the jungler hits ~4-5? That takes like 5 minutes before it gets risky. Even if minions die faster, your support and you can work together to farm safely because supp aa +turret is enough to reduce the minions to about 50 hp.

Besides, you realize there's this thing called mana right? If literally every time you went up to farm they shot a skill at you they'd go oom in like 2 waves. Since we're talking about morg, she has her q and that's it. Miss her q and she'll only have her e to fend off ganks. Post-6 you can push but the other ad with have enough damage to farm easily.

Old nid had the worst hitbox too. Worse than morg and thresh. cont

manbearswineFeb 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

So basically, push until the jungler hits ~4-5? That takes like 5 minutes before it gets risky.

It depends,but mostly no,generally more like 3-4.

Even if minions die faster, your support and you can work together to farm safely because supp aa +turret is enough to reduce the minions to about 50 hp. Besides, you realize there's this thing called mana right? If literally every time you went up to farm they shot a skill at you they'd go oom in like 2 waves. Since we're talking about morg, she has her q and that's it. Miss her q and she'll only have her e to fend off ganks. Post-6 you can push but the other ad with have enough damage to farm easily.

except that if she hits a few you are dead/out of lane,and she will hit a few considering that your movement does get predictable,and if she see's you keep backing off every time it looks like she's going to q,she will just not use it and zone you instead.

Old nid had the worst hitbox too. Worse than morg and thresh.

People keep exaggerating with it,yes it was big,no it wasn't THAT big.

Seriously,just download a few replays/watch a few streams just see how it get's implemented instead of arguing theory with me,watching 3 games will take about 10 minutes(as you watch only minutes 2-4/5) and will explain to you way better than I can why the lane is shoved early.

Adrian UmbraFeb 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I think the best way to express my point is this: The current meta is retarded,made out of extreamly stupid champions(thresh/zed/lee/etc),and well,the only way a champion can compete with them is by being stupid himself,honestly,if it see's competitive play and it's not a top laner(was always problematic)/adc(the only role riot hasn't done an absolutely horrible job balancing(until kalista that is)) there's probably something horribly wrong with it(you don't think that a sensible well designed champion would be able to compete with lee/zed/thresh now would you?).

Just wanted to comment on this: Would you say Braum, Annie, Nunu, Janna, Lulu, Xerath, and Orianna are all stupid champions? Cuz they've all been played in the pros outside of top lane/ADC and most of the community would consider them pretty balanced...

manbearswineFeb 23, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Adrian Umbra,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PQEAEfVU,comment-id=0001000000010000000000010000000000000001,timestamp=2015-02-23T22:11:30.724+0000)

Just wanted to comment on this: Would you say Braum, Annie, Nunu, Janna, Lulu, Xerath, and Orianna are all stupid champions? Cuz they've all been played in the pros outside of top lane/ADC and most of the community would consider them pretty balanced...

alright,each one is a specific case,anyway: xerath:INSANELY stupid,there's a reason this trash is so valued in competitive play,in theory he has mana costs,in practice he has his passive,on paper he is immobile,in practice his range is so big he is always one dash away from you,to be clear this is because he is severely overtuned to be viable against assassins(who are in theory his counters),his kit can be made to make sense,but it really doesn't at the moment.

Nunu: wait nunu is highly contested right now? jungle changes? idk? Hard for me to tell,I need either to play in a couple of games with it or see a couple of competitive games with it,so I don't know what to tell you about him.

braum: very stupid,lockdown,peel,poke in lane,very tanky,mobility for no reason,overloaded and stupid piece of shit.

Orianna: I'm not sure why you even mention it,she has a long history of stupidity,her kit is extremely heavy,the only reason she is allowed to maintain this state is because assassins are more obnoxious and about as strong,so they take attention away from her.

Lulu: Very safe laning on top of a kit which excels vs current assassins and hyper mobile abominations,for the most part I feel it's not so much that she's stupid,but she just fits into the current meta very well and riot simply has no intention of shifting it,it is somewhat notable that for not a support her kit is a bit too heavy.

Janna: somewhat similar to lulu but with a twist,doesn't really need to put herself in much risk to do most things,and is very effective when committing very little,but overall how insanely assassins are to stop with their moronic kits in combination with the buffed adcs(who are more important to kill/protect) caused her to be too strong.

annie: flash+stun+burst=fun,was always silly,bigger focus on burst(with the changes of preseason) and pointclick (to deal with "muh braindamaged mobility"),got her back to pretty dumb status. *I guess you can see the veigar changes as riot agreeing that this sort of behavior is a bit silly,for what that's worth(though let's face it,that's pretty much the only way to deal with how stupid mobility is right now,you don't fight the ability to spam dashes with slow moving skillshots).

so janna probably the least not stupid,but meta just got heavily in her favor,lulu similar but not very fitting in top lane,annie silly at core,meta got quite in her favor,nunu I don't know about and the rest are retarded.

Adrian UmbraFeb 24, 20151 votes

Nunu's been played in support heavy comps and in his normal "Jungle Satan" type strategy where he simply bullies the enemy jungler and serves as a buff and disrupt type support for a protect the ADC comp. He's seen 1 ban and 3 picks thus far in NA LCS.

Braum's sitting on an incredible 3 games so far. I guess if he's so broken, why is he being totally outclassed by Annie/Janna/NAMI/Leona, one of which you've already pointed out as being fine, though heavily supported by the meta? Surely if "the only way a champion can compete with them is by being stupid himself," all four of those must be completely retarded to be crowding out such a strong support?

Similarly, Orianna has seen an amazing 4 games. Such a broken champion is being totally crowded out by Lulu/Xerath/Azir/Lissandra/Zed/Cassiopeia/LeBlanc/Ahri/Kassadin then? If that's the case, midlane must be totally overloaded and carrying every single game, especially over the "balanced" ADCs and top laners...

Xerath's now received nerfs as well, guess since they didn't touch his range he's still totally broken and the forums are just wrong...

You're comparatively calling so many champions broken (if Lee is a problem competitively, what does that make Rek'sai/J4?) that I'm getting the impression that you'd call pretty much all of the ~55 champs that have been played in competitive broken, which just sounds sad. Because if that big of a portion of the champion base is beyond saving to you, you should probably go find a different game to play.

manbearswineFeb 24, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Adrian Umbra,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PQEAEfVU,comment-id=000100000001000000000001000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2015-02-24T01:55:53.801+0000)

Nunu's been played in support heavy comps and in his normal "Jungle Satan" type strategy where he simply bullies the enemy jungler and serves as a buff and disrupt type support for a protect the ADC comp. He's seen 1 ban and 3 picks thus far in NA LCS.

okay?

Braum's sitting on an incredible 3 games so far. I guess if he's so broken, why is he being totally outclassed by Annie/Janna/NAMI/Leona, one of which you've already pointed out as being fine, though heavily supported by the meta? Surely if "the only way a champion can compete with them is by being stupid himself," all four of those must be completely retarded to be crowding out such a strong support?

because janna/thresh/annie counter him,and when you are countered(mechanically) by the top tier supports you aren't great yourself.

Similarly, Orianna has seen an amazing 4 games. Such a broken champion is being totally crowded out by Lulu/Xerath/Azir/Lissandra/Zed/Cassiopeia/LeBlanc/Ahri/Kassadin then? If that's the case, midlane must be totally overloaded and carrying every single game, especially over the "balanced" ADCs and top laners...

Exactly,spot on here,mid lane is most definitely plain too strong overall(I call it "zed balancing",when something incredibly stupid is looked upon as balanced cause...there's zed). And I mentioned adcs as mostly balanced compared to each other,though they are indeed balanced overall.

Xerath's now received nerfs as well, guess since they didn't touch his range he's still totally broken and the forums are just wrong...

Uh no,I said he was insanely overtuned,you can nerf his range,can nerf his mana regen,can nerf his damage,all are valid options.(you can even leave him be,zed and friends are still more or less as retarded)

You're comparatively calling so many champions broken (if Lee is a problem competitively, what does that make Rek'sai/J4?) that I'm getting the impression that you'd call pretty much all of the ~55 champs that have been played in competitive broken, which just sounds sad. Because if that big of a portion of the champion base is beyond saving to you, you should probably go find a different game to play.

I'm not calling them broken,I'm saying there's something incredibly wrong with them to be able to compete in the current meta.

Knight SoIaire Feb 21, 20158 votes

His kit is just well designed

exactly the oposite

his kit is made in such a way that number nerfs cant stop it from being dominant and compete more than others on the other hand when number nerfs will hit him he will be utterly useless

also he is a generalist, those guys always have problems with ballance (elise got rekt and wont get up, j4 explodes after every nerf, lee sin doesnt even stop being a viable choice that can often push others out, and thresh is still the master of supports)

Big Bang BobFeb 22, 20151 votes

It is for this reason that I play support Velkoz

"I'm not supporting you. I just realized I could get a better score down here."

ThefriendlyorcFeb 22, 20151 votes

He also gets devastated by all the mobility unless your positioning is god like.

Big Bang BobFeb 22, 20151 votes

Oh please. Vel is on a whole other level compared to most champs, and doesn't even have to get remotely close to them, far out of range of their so called "mobility". If they somehow do get on top of me, I have my support for peel.

Kalista >:(

manbearswineFeb 22, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Thresh has been nerfed a shit ton. His kit is just well designed. He's not going to roll over a damage dealer, he just has decent tools to assist and support. He should be the bar that many supports should be balanced under.

I could say the same for lee sin,and it would actually be less dumb.

Thresh is legitimately more overloaded than lee sin.

Danica1708Feb 22, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=DJ Di0,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PQEAEfVU,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-02-21T18:22:20.494+0000)

/And/ he'll never see any meaningful nerfs like Lee, either.

Riot has admitted they won't get nerfs because "but they're so fun to play!"

Now, of course another reason is because of the LCS, and it's understandable at least. They want more champions that look flashy and don't want viewers just to see 'non-flashy' or farm-fests (why there's a negative stigma to playing passively). Thresh and Lee are fun to play, yes, but they're way too generalist-champions. You can always pick them in almost any team comp and not suffer like other champions. Riot has nerfed other champions for that reason, but those two will most likely never be nerfed for that reason, even though they're the worst offenders.

Except you do realize that Thresh HAS gotten nerfed?

Patch 4.13

 Dark Passage
    Now only shields the first ally to be near the Lantern in addition to Thresh.

The Box No longer deals additional damage to opponents that break extra walls beyond the first.

That was a significant nerf. I can't say anything for Lee Sin, but Thresh HAS gotten nerfed, and there's the proof.

DJ Di0Feb 22, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Except you do realize that Thresh HAS gotten nerfed?

Patch 4.13
 Dark Passage
    Now only shields the first ally to be near the Lantern in addition to Thresh. 
The Box No longer deals additional damage to opponents that break extra walls beyond the first.

That was a significant nerf. I can't say anything for Lee Sin, but Thresh HAS gotten nerfed, and there's the proof.

And then you read again and realize I said /meaningful/ nerfs. Thresh's ult damage (it still has a crazy high base damage but at least it only hits one person now) and multiple ally-shielding were never the reasons you picked Thresh in the same way you never picked Lee Sin primarily because he could slow attack speed.

Danica1708Feb 23, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=DJ Di0,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PQEAEfVU,comment-id=0001000000020000,timestamp=2015-02-22T20:49:10.153+0000)

And then you read again and realize I said /meaningful/ nerfs. Thresh's ult damage (it still has a crazy high base damage but at least it only hits one person now) and multiple ally-shielding were never the reasons you picked Thresh in the same way you never picked Lee Sin primarily because he could slow attack speed.

You do realize that those nerfs WERE meaningful. Whether the full team shield or the damage on the Box were the reason you chose Thresh or not doesn't really matter because while they weren't THE reason, it was far from a reason to not pick him. Personally, I remember when the nerfs came out and people were throwing a hissy fit over it, saying it would make him borderline unviable. Now Obviously we know that isn't true now. However they were meaningful nerfs because they nerfed his damage, and his support capabilities. I understand why they did it. It was justified. But it was also very meaningful. Now you can't get a team-wide shield and a ton of damage for no reason. He's still one of the top picks for a support, but he can't do his job as well as he could at release.

suicide cerealFeb 21, 20154 votes

He can't heal, has one shield on a long cooldown, and has no other buffs for his teammates. I'm a support main and I hate playing Thresh because I feel like his kit isn't "support-y" enough. Just me though.

DJ Di0Feb 21, 20155 votes

{quoted}

He can't heal

Need lane sustain? item 3302

has one shield on a long cooldown

That shield also doubles as a 'get out of jail free' card for any of your allies caught out of position.

I feel like his kit isn't "support-y" enough

He's kind of /the/ support just how Lee is /the/ jungler.

PæanFeb 21, 20152 votes

I feel the same way when i play thresh or leona. Im just a cc bot that jumps on whomever gets a lil too out of position, instead of someone like janna, lulu, or soraka who actively buff/heal their teammates.

Raja ChachkiFeb 22, 20152 votes

Braum can't heal, but he's not in every single LCS game.... Lux has one shield on a semi-long cooldown, but she doesn't have a get out of jail free card.....none of the following have "buffs" for their entire team Annie Braum Karma Lux Lulu Nami Zyra and yet they are all allowed to be nerfed, and they don't have everything a support could want. Soon even has buffs for her "entire" team, yet she is nerfed over and over again. Thresh just has too much, a long displacing stun(hard to land), and he is even Lee Sin-like with the ability to fly to the enemy. He also has a knock-back into a slow. He has a (small) shield that easily saves a champion from even the most dire situations, and he has a box that slows like no other. Even with no damage at all, he would still be viable.

manbearswineFeb 22, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hudson Gaga,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PQEAEfVU,comment-id=000100010003,timestamp=2015-02-22T00:34:19.948+0000)

Even with no damage at all, he would still be viable.

I agree with everything except this,with no damage he will get murdered in lane,enjoy having that incredibly overloaded kit with no adc.

but yeah,even riot said they want clear strengths and weaknesses,only a complete moron would call thresh's design good at this point(unfortunately we don't seem to be lacking them).

Lost RFeb 21, 20151 votes

Thresh is one of the few champions that have an extremely high skill ceiling. A lot of supports fall in this category, really. He can do a lot, if you have the creativity and skill, and those that do are absolutely terrifying to face. Other supports like Taric and Morgana are very limited in what they can do, and when they can do it, so when they're preparing for an assault, they telegraph their movements very clearly. Thresh has so many things he can do, and how he can do it, that you have to be especially diligent and careful and be sure to predict his movements, even when you can't see him. Especially when you can't see him.

SlackerboyTCFeb 21, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lost R,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PQEAEfVU,comment-id=00010002,timestamp=2015-02-21T22:37:02.568+0000)

Thresh is one of the few champions that have an extremely high skill ceiling. A lot of supports fall in this category, really. He can do a lot, if you have the creativity and skill, and those that do are absolutely terrifying to face. Other supports like Taric and Morgana are very limited in what they can do, and when they can do it, so when they're preparing for an assault, they telegraph their movements very clearly. Thresh has so many things he can do, and how he can do it, that you have to be especially diligent and careful and be sure to predict his movements, even when you can't see him. Especially when you can't see him.

But why not every other support in league? There's a point when thing's in a game cater towards one type of character/playstyle and im not likeing where league is going with that.

Lost RFeb 21, 20152 votes

Other supports are really good at other things. Nami does a little bit of everything (healing, speed boosts, slows, and stuns), Taric is good at armor shredding, healing and buffing his allies, Braum blocks shots for his allies and lays down stuns like nobody's business, Lulu has slows out the wazoo, a shield, a crowd knock up, a heal, a speed boost, an anti-cloak spell, a crowd slow spell, and a polymorph (nothing more dangerous to assassins than closing the gap to the enemy team as a squirrel), Janna has a crowd knock-up, a slow, a shield/attack damage buff, and a crowd displace/heal, and Morgana has a spell shield, deadly snare, and a crowd stun spell. Thresh can displace himself, the enemy, and his allies (the only champion that can do all three!), he has a stun hook, a crowd displacer, a lot of slows, and his lantern. His primary danger, however is that he can displace everyone

The key is understanding what you can do with their given kits and capitalize on that. Just because other supports can't lead the charge into the battle doesn't make them any worse than the ones that can (read: Leona, Braum and Thresh). I main support, so I have experience with almost all the supports in the game, and I can tell you I'm just as dangerous with Lulu as I am with Thresh.

killd0zerFeb 21, 20158 votes

Someone make one about Kalista being a Kangaroo

Tentakill MyselfFeb 22, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Someone make one about Kalista being a Kangaroo

http://i.gyazo.com/d778680d9bb7f069eaa6a8f4adf170ff.png No need to thank me.

Athenes LuluFeb 22, 20156 votes

Thresh is like their favorite little support prince, of course they won't touch him!

Thresh Prince of Bel-Air anyone?

Tentacle LoveFeb 21, 20155 votes

They should give the lantern a chance to fail with the sound of thresh laughing, and if the ally dies, have their soul go into the lantern.

EDIT: just in case it's necessary, this was not a serious suggestion.

Done25Feb 21, 20153 votes

Would anyone mind if Riot focused on Thresh's more selfish/nasty side? Passive - Same Q - Same W - Thresh's lantern passively drains nearby targets of their health and heals Thresh. Thresh can throw his lantern and pull it back by activating this ability. (Would drain something like 1 / 1.5 / 2 / 2.5 / 3% (+1% per 100 AP) of enemies' maximum health) E - Thresh rakes his flail across the ground in front of him, drawing those hit towards him. The farther away they are the closer they are pulled. (Passive scales off of AP to better reward Thresh for ability power instead of strange off builds like AD Thresh.) R - Same

Now Thresh has a clear goal in a fight. Use Q to jump in on a fragile target, Use W to sustain, E active is used to pull in fleeing targets, the E passive gives him DPS over the course of the fight And his R does what it does.

KingsgraveFeb 21, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Would anyone mind if Riot focused on Thresh's more selfish/nasty side? Passive - Same Q - Same W - Thresh's lantern passively drains nearby targets of their health and heals Thresh. Thresh can throw his lantern and pull it back by activating this ability. (Would drain something like 1 / 1.5 / 2 / 2.5 / 3% (+1% per 100 AP) of enemies' maximum health) E - Thresh rakes his flail across the ground in front of him, drawing those hit towards him. The farther away they are the closer they are pulled. (Passive scales off of AP to better reward Thresh for ability power instead of strange off builds like AD Thresh.) R - Same

Now Thresh has a clear goal in a fight. Use Q to jump in on a fragile target, Use W to sustain, E active is used to pull in fleeing targets, the E passive gives him DPS over the course of the fight And his R does what it does.

Thresh's goal in a fight is to be an asshole

Chromatic EagleFeb 22, 20153 votes

Isn't Thresh a CertainlyT design?

manbearswineFeb 22, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chromatic Eagle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PQEAEfVU,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2015-02-22T03:26:32.737+0000)

Isn't Thresh a CertainlyT design?

A rather new champion who is utterly retarded down to his very core... Take a guess.

youngjake93Feb 23, 20152 votes

Sometimes I just don't understand these boards... Thresh is a Tier 2 support right now. He is picked basically when Janna is banned and that person wanted to play Janna. His engage isn't that strong, his peel isn't that strong and his utility is ok. Sure he is a generalist, but who cares? He isn't dominant, but he is a safe pick if you don't know how to make a real team comp or your real support gets banned. People are actually picking Blitzcrank in competitive play as often as they do Thresh or even more with the better hook, and AOE silence. Lee Sin is also a Tier 2 jungler. Same thing. His kit offers a lot of options. He is a generalist. He isn't that great at a lot of things and in most comps you probably want someone else like Vi, Jarvan, Rengar or Rek'Sai.