Hey riot, shieldbreaker wasn't a bad mechanics, it was on the wrong champion

taleofsonata·Jan 26, 2019·59 votes·17,026 views

I would like to see shieldbreaker on supports, tanks, and slow champions that does less damage than Irelia as a form of utility.

65 Comments

Who Fed RuJan 26, 201919 votes

I would like to see a ability with long cooldown that can completely break an enemies shield.

Would be a nice niche against hypercarry and heavy shield comps.

saltranJan 26, 20192 votes

But heavy shield comps are already niche, there's no point in creating a even more niche item for that.

A shield breaking item could've been a good idea, dont get me wrong, but not since they nerfed shield duration on 8.12, if you keep those nerfs and also add that item there will be no reason to pick enchanters at all.

LTK KoRoJan 26, 20191 votes

no reason to pick enchanters at all.

That's the perfect meta and we should aim for that

saltranJan 26, 20191 votes

Hey I'm starting to play with enchanters because now I'm playing with another premade and we are playing Kog'Lulu, it's really funny even in this meta.

LTK KoRoJan 26, 20191 votes

And that's the reason why enchanters should stay unviable :((((

i had enough games ruined by twitch+lulu on nexus blitz, and now this is coming back?

ChaddyFantomeJan 26, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=LTK KoRo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zuab8esr,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-26T17:47:29.716+0000)

And that's the reason why enchanters should stay unviable :((((

i had enough games ruined by twitch+lulu on nexus blitz, and now this is coming back?

Yea, better we play with buttfuck 1 shot champions like Leona, Blitz and especially Pyke instead, amirite? Cuz thats what we need, more damage.

LTK KoRoJan 26, 20191 votes

Ah yes, because Leona/Blitz/Pyke are one-shotting but Twitch+lulu don't oneshot teams at all.

Enchanters are just a boring design which gives stats to the most premier statcheckers in the game, adcs.

ChaddyFantomeJan 29, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=LTK KoRo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zuab8esr,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-26T19:51:17.636+0000)

Ah yes, because Leona/Blitz/Pyke are one-shotting but Twitch+lulu don't oneshot teams at all.

Enchanters are just a boring design which gives stats to the most premier statcheckers in the game, adcs.

You have a very weird definition of the term one-shot.

LTK KoRoJan 29, 20191 votes

i don't see how leona/blitz/pyke can oneshot anyone.

ChaddyFantomeFeb 3, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=LTK KoRo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zuab8esr,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-29T22:15:22.573+0000)

i don't see how leona/blitz/pyke can oneshot anyone.

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

LTK KoRoFeb 3, 20191 votes

Describe then your definition of oneshot, we can compare.

ChaddyFantomeFeb 20, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=LTK KoRo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zuab8esr,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-03T20:49:41.131+0000)

Describe then your definition of oneshot, we can compare.

Rotation of spells with the intent of immediately getting a kill out of it. But ur missing my point. I was obviously not referring to the champion themselves doing 100% of the damage.

KarfussJan 26, 20194 votes

[{quoted}](name=Who Fed Ru,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zuab8esr,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-01-26T00:23:56.600+0000)

I would like to see a ability with long cooldown that can completely break an enemies shield.

Would be a nice niche against hypercarry and heavy shield comps.

This. An Enchanter with an ult that can syphon shielding/healing within an area and distribute it evenly between their allies within that zone would be a pretty neat idea for a champion. It'd be pretty niche, but I imagine fun to use.

TotalJerkJan 26, 201917 votes

It belongs on an item. Instead of just being a free innate counter tool on a champion.

Irelia BotJan 26, 20193 votes

{quoted}

It belongs on an item. Instead of just being a free innate counter tool on a champion.

Wit's end still seem to be lacking something.

FSRERJan 26, 201911 votes

It really shouldnt be because if i know riot (and i think i do) they would only make a ad item with shield breaker sooo, instead of zeds getting full lethality and then not knowing what to buy they would buy that and then theres no stop to their dmg

ChaddyFantomeJan 26, 20192 votes

No it doesn't. Putting it on an item would be stupid when Shields have counterplay built in to them unlike Heals.

TotalJerkJan 27, 20191 votes

...What? Grievous wounds counters heals. Unlike any other defensive steroid in the game shields cannot be mitigated or penetrated. Unless you're Urgot, Pyke, or Aatrox, all you can do about a shield is either wait it out or just do so much damage that it wont matter, and even those three can only situationally mitigate shields.

ChaddyFantomeJan 29, 20191 votes

{quoted}

...What? Grievous wounds counters heals. Unlike any other defensive steroid in the game shields cannot be mitigated or penetrated.

Shields, unlike other defensive measures can be literally ignored because they only last a given time. Heals on the other hand straight up remove damage. Shields can be mitigated or penetrated with armor pen and magic pen. Unlike a Heal, which removes damage all together, a shield is useless until it actually blocks something,

You can go out of combat and heal. You can't do that with shields.

Unless you're Urgot, Pyke, or Aatrox, all you can do about a shield is either wait it out or just do so much damage that it wont matter, and even those three can only situationally mitigate shields.

"There is a counter to shields but it doesn't count because .......uhhhh...........uhhhhhhhhhh"

hhaavviikkJan 26, 201910 votes

how bout no, it will just lead to the same situation as heals and grievous wounds where heals can be ridiculously OP if no one has grievous wounds and are garbage if someone does have it, just balance heals/shield instead of relying on an item/champion to counter it

kile147Jan 26, 20192 votes

They already have shield countering mechanics in the game that actually have counterplay too. Kalista, Twitch, and somewhat Kennan all have abilities that allow them to builds stacks on a target then activate an ability to deal extra damage. This is a counter to shields because if someone is shielded they can just wait out the shield duration before activating it. The reason these don't push shields to be stronger is because they don't rely on raw numbers to do the job but take advantage of the counterplay already inherent. If we really want more champions or items that have advantages against shields then design them around these kind of mechanics.

ChaddyFantomeJan 26, 20191 votes

{quoted}

They already have shield countering mechanics in the game that actually have counterplay too. Kalista, Twitch, and somewhat Kennan all have abilities that allow them to builds stacks on a target then activate an ability to deal extra damage. This is a counter to shields because if someone is shielded they can just wait out the shield duration before activating it. The reason these don't push shields to be stronger is because they don't rely on raw numbers to do the job but take advantage of the counterplay already inherent. If we really want more champions or items that have advantages against shields then design them around these kind of mechanics.

This. I'm okay with a shield Counter champion, but only if that's their niche to begin with. It isn't something that should be on an item or tackled onto a champion.

EvenJan 26, 20194 votes

We don't need anti shield mechanics in the game anymore. Shields are not overpowered at all. Would only really make sense if they brought it on an item but buffed heal+shield power items.

taleofsonataJan 26, 20193 votes

{quoted}

We don't need anti shield mechanics in the game anymore. Shields are not overpowered at all. Would only really make sense if they brought it on an item but buffed heal+shield power items.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BssZ_YqnXQz/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=ofztvtfm25fd

BârdJan 26, 20195 votes

The shield helped there, but most of that seemed to come from Ravenous Hunter.

MLDzXnRRRJan 26, 20191 votes

{quoted}

We don't need anti shield mechanics in the game anymore. Shields are not overpowered at all. Would only really make sense if they brought it on an item but buffed heal+shield power items.

Shields are not overpowered until you face a team with fed AP champions having shields... Shields are even better than heals most of the time, because are stronger in terms of numbers and cd, but are more situational, of course and have other kinds of utility (like giving AD - janna)

ChaddyFantomeJan 26, 20192 votes

Shields are even better than heals most of the time

Not a dumber thing has been said on the board.

because are stronger in terms of numbers and cd, but are more situational, of course and have other kinds of utility (like giving AD - janna)

None of these are inherent elements to shields. these are all concessions Riot has to make in order to justify their existence over Heals on some champions. Hell, some of these are BS because there are Heals with Low CD and bonus effects as well like Soraka and Nidalee and Summoner Heal, while there are shields with No effects at all like Barrier, Archangels Active.

Usually a Shield is the thing added as a bonus, not the utility effect.

EvenJan 27, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Shields are not overpowered until you face a team with fed AP champions having shields... Shields are even better than heals most of the time, because are stronger in terms of numbers and cd, but are more situational, of course and have other kinds of utility (like giving AD - janna)

The reasons heals have counter items is because they have use outside of combat. If there was grevious wounds for shields it would just make them 40% worse period. Heals will always be strong for sustain.

Moody PJan 26, 20194 votes

It wasn't unreasonable on Irelia, IMO. I don't think it belongs on any support champions especially if said support has shields of their own, then it would just feel very lopsided.

Beacon AcademyJan 26, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zuab8esr,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-01-26T00:28:23.126+0000)

It wasn't unreasonable on Irelia, IMO. I don't think it belongs on any support champions especially if said support has shields of their own, then it would just feel very lopsided.

Supports having weapons to fight tools used by other supports?

What a stupid idea /s

Moody PJan 26, 20191 votes

sarcasm isn't an argument

WyrmbladeJan 26, 20193 votes

Generally stuff that breaks through defence belongs on slow bruiser characters where the option of dodging is readily available.

Tuition FeeJan 26, 20192 votes

Shieldbreaker is ok, but we already got shield nerfs for Janna, Lulu and Karma iirc. I'd like to see that change reversed if we're gonna start throwing in more shieldbreakers.

oortoomeebreesuuJan 26, 20192 votes

Shieldbreak feels too arms-racey to me, and it's IDEAL use in my opinion comes from the annoying end-hp shields on champions like Blitzcrank TahmKench

However, in reality, shielding is just such a rare commodity that it would be functionally useless. A damage type that only removes FAKE HP? Why? Shields do not need a grievous wounds counterpart.

Radiant SeraphJan 26, 20192 votes

What about in Mordekaiser?

FixHealsRemoveGWJan 26, 20192 votes

Shieldbreaker is as r%%%%%ed as Grievous Wounds and both shouldn't be in the game to begin with or at least only on items that are extremely bad otherwise, so you only buy it as last resort and not as your freaking core item.

ChaddyFantomeJan 26, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Shieldbreaker is as r%%%%%ed as Grievous Wounds and both shouldn't be in the game to begin with or at least only on items that are extremely bad otherwise, so you only buy it as last resort and not as your freaking core item.

Grievous Wounds at least is justified. ShieldBreaker only exists because of board circlejerk.

FixHealsRemoveGWJan 26, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Grievous Wounds at least is justified. ShieldBreaker only exists because of board circlejerk.

What makes you think that Grievous Wounds is different? People have always complaint about heals and rightfully so because some are really overtuned, but adding 40% reduction to an item can't be the solution because then everything just depends on that item. Riots inability to balance heals properly doesn't justify grievous wounds, same for shields.

It's like having champions that deal too much dmg and then you put an item in the shop that reduces damage by 40%... not very good design. Phantom Dancer on Yasuo is already a pain in the ass for anyone who doesn't use conqueror and that's just 12%...

ChaddyFantomeJan 29, 20191 votes

{quoted}

What makes you think that Grievous Wounds is different? People have always complaint about heals and rightfully so because some are really overtuned, but adding 40% reduction to an item can't be the solution because then everything just depends on that item. Riots inability to balance heals properly doesn't justify grievous wounds, same for shields.

It's like having champions that deal too much dmg and then you put an item in the shop that reduces damage by 40%... not very good design. Phantom Dancer on Yasuo is already a pain in the ass for anyone who doesnt#x27;t use conqueror and that's just 12%...

Grievous Wounds is different because unlike Shields, Heals can be used Out of combat. Shields can't. They're useless unless you use them in time to block something.

I can always back off and sustain myself as Vlad, Mundo, Sona, etc. you can't do that with Shields with Rumble, Riven Lux, Lulu etc. The reason GW exists is because to justify Heals not being shit, and having a good use case, they have to have a counter to it. Riot tried removing GW back in S4 and it didn't work because they had to make every heal shit to justify it. This also creates the problem or allowing champs to also build nonGW items to double down on the punishment they would give Healing champs that cant outsustain you.

This is because either a heal champ is outhealing you in combat or they aren't. The only choice between those two thats fair in a GWless game is the latter, making healing champs pointless/redundant. At least with GW, they can be balanced around the fact that you can still get very powerful recovery out of combat, to justify GW lowering it in combat.

Shields already have in-built counterplay because they have to be timed. A counter effect is overkill and redundant.

Your damage argument is redundant because it exists. It's called Armor/MR. You also have items like item 3194 and item 3143 . They exist.

ƒrostγJan 26, 20191 votes

there should be an item similar to morello or mortal reminder that reduces shields

ChaddyFantomeJan 26, 20192 votes

{quoted}

there should be an item similar to morello or mortal reminder that reduces shields

No there shouldn't. Unlike heals, Shields don't do anythign unless u block something with it.

WiegrafOfValorJan 26, 20191 votes

It would make a lot of sense on Vi, tho.

Denting Blows: Deals twice as much damage on shields.

Vi's Ult: Breaks Shields instantly.

ChaddyFantomeJan 26, 20191 votes

{quoted}

It would make a lot of sense on Vi, tho.

Denting Blows: Deals twice as much damage on shields.

Vi's Ult: Breaks Shields instantly.

Denting Blows already applies armor shred therefore making ti do more damage on shields. it doesn't need to double down on it.

jocomotionJan 26, 20191 votes

This, SO MUCH THIS, 100% Agreed.

OleandervineJan 26, 20191 votes

It should be in the game, but not on supports, as that would lead to heavier imbalances in their lane - or at least, definitely not on ranged supports. I can see it on tanks and such, it can give them more utility. It might be a nice way to breathe some fresh air into champions who are guttering a bit at the moment like Malphite or Skarner.

FlameHalbrdOkidoJan 26, 20191 votes

Who thinks it would be great on Morde...or rather what if he dealt additional dmg and stole shield value for the additional damage dealt? It could be on his Q, i think it would be quite fitting

DraehlJan 27, 20191 votes

A fair consideration, OP, but why not just balance shield skills? One idea that comes to mind is increased resource costs. Reward using them when needed, but they're using them when they're wasted their resource pool should feel the impact.

saltranJan 27, 20192 votes

But it already happened, read 8.12 patch notes.