Why do we 'need' to see as many champs as possible played in the LCS?

Worst Kench NA··22 votes·9,639 views

There are some champs in this game that have high skills caps and work the best in very coordinated team efforts. Champs like these should naturally Ryze to the cream of the crop in pro play, yet champs like him like Kalista Shen Azir TahmKench etc. are routinely dumpstered and have had subpar winrates for most of their existences because there's a strange belief that as many champs as possible should be represented in the LCS.

Why though? I main Nami, and it really doesn't take that much skill to play her. So naturally, I don't think she should be something like a top tier pick in competitive play necessarily when there's champs like Kench that benefit much more from teamwork than she does. I don't give a shit if pro players would never play her, I don't need their validation going towards my champ choices. Champs like Garen and Annie, for instance, that are probably the two easiest champs in the game to play, shouldn't really be in the LCS at all, and that's not a bad thing. Shouldn't we like watching games so that pros can adequately express their skills? So that they can make amazing outplays and all that? I wouldn't be excited from an Annie flash ult as much as I would seeing something like Faker's Zed outplay again.

Kalista is probably the best example of this. I haven't played long enough to know how long Ryze has been problematic for, but I'm pretty sure Kalista's entire existence has been spent in this hell where she works so well in pro play that she has to be kept as terrible as possible so that other marksmen can see play in pro games. Yorick and Urgot before their reworks had the same treatment, but there's no Kalista rework in sight. Never mind all the times Ryze has had to be reworked while **still **having the same issues.

Want to see pros play solo queue champs? Watch their streams. I don't give a damn if champs like Annie, Garen, Brand, Janna, Teemo etc. would never see pro play because I wouldn't watch LCS to learn champ mechanics anyways. I know that ideally, every champ should stand on their own merits and be able to be played in the LCS, but that's just not reality. A solid 10% of the champ roster shouldn't have to suffer throughout the entire game because people want to see their champ played in the LCS.

22 Comments

Naymliss12 votes

Too bad the league subreddit has an opinion opposite of that. There are so many people who don't play anymore, but watch the lcs, and riot is trying to balance them with the people who still play, but alas they aren't doing very well.

I miss playing Ryze . He was decent last season, but then he got picked after the mana item changes, and now you go oom in 1 full combo. Forget trading in lane, it's all you can do to press e occasionally for manaflow.

Worst Kench NA5 votes

{quoted}

Too bad the league subreddit has an opinion opposite of that. There are so many people who don't play anymore, but watch the lcs, and riot is trying to balance them with the people who still play, but alas they aren't doing very well.

I miss playing Ryze . He was decent last season, but then he got picked after the mana item changes, and now you go oom in 1 full combo. Forget trading in lane, it's all you can do to press e occasionally for manaflow.

That's what I never understood either, why does the League subreddit have more clout than the actual League forums, that Riot actually administrates?

Leetri3 votes

Cause there's waaaaaaaaaay more people on the subreddit by far, like it's not even remotely close. A massively popular post on the boards might get 100-200 upvotes, while on the subreddit you get 10 000 upvotes for the exact same post. The subreddit also reaches players of all regions, while a post on the NA boards only reaches players that visit the NA boards. The boards default to whatever your region is, a lot of people probably never bother to change it over to NA. I don't know how many people visit the boards, but the subreddit has 1,8 million subscribers and I doubt the boards is even close to a 10th of that.

saltran3 votes

Because the NA Boards are a disgrace that should be removed and literally all the community takes the Boards as the joke it is.

Similar to the oficial Overwatch Forums, meme forums that go beyond the meaning of cesspool just like this Boards.

Also notice how little this place is, I dont think I have ever seen a post with more than 300 upvotes and 300 upvotes is low for a Reddit post.

Naymliss2 votes

Ah yes why can't we have quality posts like the mspaint fast food skins on the subreddit?

LTK KoRo1 votes

At least on subreddit you're aware what's meme post and what's real, that helps with any discussions. Here when people are talking about assassins, duskblade, game length and mages/adcs i never know if authors are trolls, morons, or just salty kiddies

JarodDempsey1 votes

The league subreddit really doesnt have much clout. Riot just never listens to either it or the boards or the community in general but people see the bigger numbers on the subreddit and think it matters. People on the subreddit fail to realize that by voicing their opinions on nonofficial forums outside of the moderation and rules riot abides by immediately makes them less impactful than those voiced on official forums. Regardless of number of upvotes and such, discussions held on the forums will always hold more sway than those on the subreddit (although how useful even those thatre posted officially are is still left up to debate because of the aforementioned indifference/ignorance riot tends to have for all but their own discussions).

Blakiepug8 votes

It saddens me to see Tahm Kench added to that list. :/

I thought after Azir that Riot was done dumpstering champions for LCS but I guess I was wrong.

Danjeng6 votes

TFW am actual Ryze main, and see my champ being used as a standard of "dumpstered because pro play".

I kid you not even the AZIR mains are happy that at least they aren't us. https://www.reddit.com/r/azirmains/comments/97mss4/azir_main_starter_pack/

Ryze has a sub 50% win rate in all elos. It's no longer "oh he's strong in the right hands". And despite all the nerfs Ryze has accumulated throughout the seasons, Ryze is STILL picked in pro play, while also having a sub 50% win rate in pro play. Numbers wise, Ryze isn't even that powerful. In the end, maybe it has to do something with the teamwide teleport that can win pro games while being the most useless ability in all of solo queue hmmm.

Naymliss3 votes

Ryze was strong in the right hands last season. This season after the mana nerfs he has 0 agency until mid game, and that just blows since games are decided by mid game.

RyzeTheSmurfMage2 votes

I saw that too. Looks like they want a war.

saltran2 votes

Because Rito balances for ppl that know how to play and not for the lvl 11 account on the Boards crying about Zed.

TheSymbolÔfPeace1 votes

So if a challenger player makes a new account and becomes level 11 and makes a statement on a board, that makes him bad? You don't know anything about people's ranks, it's called making a new account.

MrFawknSunshine1 votes

cuz someone somewhere plays a very unmeta champ as their fav/one trick and thinks its GOOD AND SHOULD BE VIABLE AT PRO LEVEL even though the game they play is pretty much a different game then the rest of us play.

Blossom of Time1 votes

Honestly, it gets boring seeing the same champs being played countless times when there are over 140 champions in the game at the moment. Only about 1/3 of those champs ever get picked during the LCS.

koshkyra1 votes

{quoted}

Honestly, it gets boring seeing the same champs being played countless times when there are over 140 champions in the game at the moment. Only about 1/3 of those champs ever get picked during the LCS.

1/3? I'd say like 1/5.

Vlada Cut1 votes

Because all champions deserve the equal chances to shine like stars in the spotlight. Same should apply for Solo Q.

LTK KoRo1 votes

Well it's more like: every champion should have at least one niche in which they are great. Problem is, guys like Azir or Ryze are very good in 99% of scenarios, which makes situational mages like Viktor, Anivia or Karthus useless. What's the point of playing Karthus if Azir is stronger than him at everything? There's nothing that Karthus have which Azir doesn't do equally good or better.

Larriet1 votes

It's totally valid to try to appease both fans of the pro scene and fans who play the game themselves. If you're saying that it's logical certain champions rise to the top of organized play, then it also stands to reason it's logical those champions should be toned down if they are budging out other options.

Ideally, every champion would be viable at every level of play, but that's impossible. Mostly they've done an OK job, but the specific problem characters you mention (and also certain others who perform better at lower MMR, like Heimerdinger Lux Veigar ) are balanced so as not to be oppressive at the level where they're strongest. I can see why losing a handful of champion in Solo Queue is preferable to losing large portions of the roster in Pro Play because those champions are just that good.

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

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Worst Kench NA1 votes

{quoted}

Because the same champions that dominate pro play also tend to dominate either other high elo organized play or solo queue. As a result, they need nerfs to not feel overbearing in those games.

Diversity at any level is simply a result of there not being a handful of overpowered champions outclassing everyone else.

Okay. Thing is, I ideally wouldn't be opposed to seeing a wider scope of champions in the LCS. The problem arises when there's champions like Kalista, Ryze, Kench, Shen etc. that must be kept horrible because of how overbearing they are in coordinated pro play. Do people who actually like the kits of those champs just have to suck it up and deal with a sub 45% winrate because of that? Sub 45% may be an exaggeration but I'm pretty sure all three of those examples bar possibly Shen have had winrates like that before.

JarodDempsey1 votes

I didnt read like any of your post but to address the title, I think it's good riot wants champs to be viable so that the meta doesnt become hyper focused. It'd suffer the same fate as collectible card games. They have thousands of cards all with great visuals and lore and such but every year theres solidly only a handful of decks, sometimes only even like 2 decks worth of cards that are competitive due to poor balance maintenance and I really dont want to see league end up like that (not that i think it's currently in acceptable shape but thats completely different issues).

I read your post and yeah its really fucking bonkers that riot insists on balancing some champs around such a tiny minority of players which ruins it for everyone else. LCS could be a broken dumpsterfire for all i care so long as champs are in good working order for the vast majority of players. Since it is a game after all it should be balanced to provide the most fun to the most people instead of balancing it so some "pro" players can make some shoddy career out of it to entertain people who somehow think watching a game they can play is more fun than actually playing it (on the same computer without even getting up no less).

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