"Riot don't nerf champions and keep buffing things to compensate"

skyskee008·9/7/2017, 12:45:42 PM·69 votes·4,166 views

BULL SHIT. I can't even believe this some how made it to the top of boards. Are there truely this many people that have NEVER read a patch notes in THEIR LIFE?

I'll go as far as to say that Riot RARELY gives champions any significant buffs - whereas they're happy with GUTTING champions and their items and leaving them in the gutter.

Examples off the top of my head in the past 2 seasons:

Udyr - nerfed everything and then nerfed Runic Echoes and removed devourer Yi - Nerfed everything then removed devourer Lucian - Nerfed all ranges, nerfed damages, increased mana costs, and in compensation he got some fluidity and early game passive buffs. Leblanc - Nerfed literally every base damage and AP ratio. Camille - Nerfed everything Darius - Nerfed damage/CDs/Handle Damg/other things i can't remember Varus - Nerfed damage & CDs. Jhin - Nerfed damage & utility & DFT.

Gonna just start going down champion list. I'll list buffs too but some champs have had pretty much no changes.

Amumu - Passigve changed, now more team oriented. Ahri - Nerfed her W damage and some other stuff I can't recall. Anivia - Changed her E + R interaction maknig her much harder to play Ashe - Q uptime reduced, W cd increased, Q damage reduced Azir - GUTTED Bard - Buffed Blitz - Ult cd nerfed Brand - Nerfed slightly in terms of damage b/c of support Caitlyn - GUTTED Camille - Nerfed Q damage, W heal, and ult duration. Cassiopeia - Pretty sure just got some small nerfs on E. Changed E to be more reliant on Q - making her harder to play Cho'Gath - Buffed and is retarded RN Corki - Nerfed over and over and over again (110% autos > 100%, R nerfed, base AD nerfed, other nerfs). Compensated with more magic damg on autos. Darius - went over Diana - ? Dr Mundo - Nerfed super hard before in terms of E damage - getting some weird MR shit now. Draven - Shift from early to later (bonus instead of Base AD scaling on Q - ALSO nerfed passive) Ekko - Nerfed a LOT in terms of utility (W stun duration lowered, Q base damage lowered, Ult HEAL lowered, no slow on passive anymore. W % health damg lowered). Compensated in terms of some scalings and E Cd recently reduced slightly Elise - Pretty much forever nerfed. Still being nerfe don PBE Eve - Pretty much gutted since the start of time. Ezreal - Nerfed because of blue Ez, but has actually gotten some good buffs over time Fiddle - Buff on passive, I guess? Useless champ. Fiora - Nerfed a shit ton, getting a FRACTION of her power back in buffs Fizz - Nerfed E cd before - got some of it back EARLY - but still worse at later ranks. Also ULT latch-on removed. W base damage lowered. Galio - Changed, nerfed repeatedly GP - Nerfed repeatedly Garen - Actually buffed a lot Gnar - Nerfed hard - put some power back into him. Meta again > nerf again Gragas - Nerfed R interaction, nerfed CDs, nerfed damages, nerfed scalings. 3 base armour & heal passive stronger compensation buffs Graves - NERFED over and over and over again. E nerfed dumb hard. R damage nerfed, Q damage nerfed Hecarim - Nerfed hard in early clear, Q damage & base damage. A small QoL buff. Heimer - Umm? Illaoi - Dunno, pretty sure buffed. Irelia - Nerfed a lot after triforce changes (ult Cd mostly) Ivern - Nerfed over and over and over again. Mostly on E shield & Daisy Janna - Usually prone to nerfs, actualyl got hit with some nerfs Jarvan - Buff/Nerf? Got more shielding I guess - better tank but less of a duelist now. Jax - Don't remember Jayce - Randomly buffed - super oppressive, nerfed a lot afterwards. R switch damage increase. Jhin - already discussed Jinx - Rocket attack speed ratio lowered. Actually buffed on ult damage. Kalista - GUTTED before, small QoL buffs and meta shift brought her back. Karma - Nerfed E shield SO much, also nerfed Q damage iirc. Karthus - ? Kassadin - Buffed Katarina - Nerfed ever since rework Kayle - ? Kennen - Nerfed everything. Nerfed AP kennen hard. Then AD kennen is meta so nerf that too. Kha'zix - Nerfed Q bonus damage (after rework, because he was meta for a while). Kindred - Gutted Kled - ? Kog'Maw - Buffed maybe? I think AP kog was gutted. LB - GUTTED Lee Sin - Ult CD hurt hard, and ult damage Leona - ? Maybe buffs iirc Lissandra - ? Maybe small buffs - iirc it didn't fix her problems Lucian - already discussed Lulu - Nerfed shield, nerfed W, nerfed Q. Lux - Buffs to ult CD reset Malphite - ? Malz - Made viable again after being gutted Maokai - Nerfed the shit out of him before rework (AP Mao Support). Now we have this monstrosity because every other JG nerfed. Yi - discussed Mf - ? Morde - Nerfed Morgana - ? Nami - Nerfed healing Nasus - Buffs Naut - Pretty much hit with the gutterino Nidalee - Gutted Nocturne - ? Nunu - ? Buffed Olaf - Olafed Ori - Nerfed Pantheon - ? Pretty sure small nerfs, maybe nothing. Poppy - nerfed hard Quinn - ? Rammus - Changed Rek sai - reworked Renekton - Changed him then reverted. Pretty sure they tried nerfing him but i don't remember Rengar - Gutted Riven - Buffed on ult damage, weird. Rumble - Nerfed hard Ryze - GUTTED Sejuani - Reworked. Was nerfed since rework though Shaco - Nerfed to hell Shen - Nerfed so god damn much after rework Shyvana - ? Singed - Rework was a buff? I guess Sion - Buffed (ult damage) Sivir - Buffed? 30 damg skarner - Nerfed to hell Sona - nerfed A LOT since her rework Soraka - NErfed W a lot Swain - Nerfed a lot - small QoL buffs before though IIRc Syndra - Repeatedly nerfed in damage Tahm Kench - Nerfed devour MS, nerfed E shield, dunno about other things. Passive damg stronger? Taliyah - Nerfed Talon - reworked - nerfed, still strong. Taric - Buffed Teemo - ? Made his shrooms last for shroter amoujnt of time. Thresh - Nerfed flay Trist - Small Q cd buff Trundle - untouched? Trynd - ? TF - ? Twitch - Nerf to attack speed from Q , W buffed and stealth duration buffed (camoflaouge was a nerf though to all stealth). Udyr - lul Urgot - Reworked, is bad. Varus - nerfed Vayne - buffed then reverted. Q not hits towers so i guess buff Veigar - ? Vel'Koz - actualyl got some buffs on ratios Vi - ? Viktor - Nerfed hard on itemization and damg Vlad - Nerfed damage and CDs and healing. Hes been nerfed pretty heavily since rework. Volibear - Attack speed nerf on W for pretty much no reason. More chain lightning buff but it doesn't matter? WW - Rework into nerfs here and there. Maybe unchanged, don't remember. Wukong - ? Xerath - ? Xin Zhao - ? Yasuo - Nerfed Q base, nerfed E cd and damg Yorick - Reworked, bad Zac - "reworked", buffed into ridiculousness and nerfed into obscurity Zed - Nerfed W cd, W + Q interaction, and multiple Q damg (unless 3). Ziggs - Buffs to sieging Zilean - ? Zyra - Nerfed super ahrd because of support.

THERE YOU GO.

Does it LOOK like Riot BUFFS champions uncontrollably? Or does it seem like Riot NERFs champions 80% of the time and other champions become "strong" BECAUSE other champions got nerfed.

Riot MOSTLY buffs itemization, and RARELY buffs champions. I.E. lethality/cinderhulk/IE buffs are the things that shifted the meta. Not because Riot "buffed" x champion. They've also been NERFING lethality/cinderhulk ever since it became oppressive.

The only reason ADCs are SO strong rn is because they're one of the classes that hasn't had their itemization gutted (in fact BUFFED - but LW was actually NERFED, allowing tanks to be so strong). Also support itemization is ridiculous too - knight's vow, ardent, redemption, locket.

TL;DR: Riot nerfs things WAY more than they buff things. If you want to prove me wrong then show it. I've listed every champion change for the past couple of seasons (to the best of my ability) - but maybe I'm COMPLETELY wrong and Riot has been secretly buffing champions.

81 Comments

Risk of Fate9/7/2017, 1:57:02 PM21 votes

[deleted]

Critmaster Garen9/7/2017, 1:54:51 PM6 votes

the best approach is what theyre doing right now.

buffing weak champions a little, and nerfing strong champions. (though they could be a little quicker with the nerfs to the strong champions.)

the problem with morellos approach of only nerfing was, that when one champion was very weak, it could take years until he caught up to the rest of the pool until every other champion was nerfed down to his level. some champions would just never get any attention and kept seeing indirect nerfs to items, runes, masteries etc. and stayed irrelevant through their entire existence.

it also created an inverse power creep which is similar to what happens when youre only buffing. champions that havent seen changes in years would suddenly be op because everyone who countered him was nerfed.

but with their current strategy, theyre at least occationally taking weak champions like Garen or Aatrox and try to improve their gameplay.

if morello was still in charge, aatrox would have been garbage for the next 3 years without a single attempt to improve him, then get some huge nerfs because he got relevant again.

Glory979/7/2017, 1:29:15 PM6 votes

Well the total list of nerf is indeed bigger than the list of buffs... Riot nerf: [insert long explanation] Base AD: 62.156 --> Base AD: 62.155 Riot buffs: [short and hilarious explanation: "fares pretty well when his cooldowns are up"]: NEW EFFECT: Percent Max Health DMG, NEW EFFECT..., Ultimate Damage increased by 200 per rank, Does Insane extra damage against turrets...

coin+ardent censer supports are running around with insane winrate, better buff spellthief items instead Twitch has a 55% winrate for several patches, riot buffs ezreal.

waiting for WoW9/7/2017, 12:50:13 PM5 votes

Sometimes I wonder if Riot has one of those lottery ball machines with different champion names on each ball, and at every patch they randomly pick 4-5 balls and say "hmm lets randomly buff this champ a little bit" because that's honestly how it feels. They rarely give meaningful buffs unless a champion is really struggling, but the amount of minor buffs they give to random champions at random times is just weird... especially when the champion isn't even struggling.

Arulumaya9/7/2017, 10:14:23 PM3 votes

LOL Yorick ain't bad dafuq

Sleepcoma9/7/2017, 7:15:10 PM3 votes

"Syndra - Repeatedly nerfed in damage" nice meme dude they buffed her 6 times in a row (a good amount of those being ap ratio increases) which is why she is meta. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Syndra/History thats not repeated nerfs thats 6 buffs and 3 nerfs since early season 5

Trap or a Trick9/8/2017, 2:40:30 AM3 votes

Aatrox ;-;

Yordle Xayah9/8/2017, 2:01:27 AM2 votes

Tristana was buffed ONCE since 2015 and now. Yes just ONCE and no more.

Also, she's on a 50% Win Ratio right now and she has the very same exact kit/numbers she had in 7.13 when she was the 15th Worst ADC in the game and below a 49% Win Ratio.

Not that anybody cares (except me) but these are all facts.

Mens Hair Club9/7/2017, 12:53:30 PM2 votes

Darius got nerfed and then he got stealth nerfed twice when he stopped being top tier by removing his ability to apply full passive to everyone he hits with Q if someone had 4 stacks (which wasn't unfair) and then stealth nerfing his E by clipping about 20 range off it

Spoofghoul9/7/2017, 1:18:31 PM2 votes

Sion - buffed ult, buffed W passive & active

Nerfed: everything else in prior seasons, and many of his items this season

Q snap cast? naaah can't give sion a no dmg semi reliable slow dmg vs minions fuck that shit a champion who needs farm doesn't need to be able to farm E nerfed W nerfed insanely hard the recent buffs compensate barely for 10% of this Mana cost nerfs over the seasons Health regen nerfs

This guy received nerfs on literally everything he ever had because he was fair to play against according to everyone

The only time he was strong was during cinderhulk meta, because there was much much much more health available and cinderhulk did % of your hp in dmg So he was walking around with a perma rank 3 renekton ult at the time on top of the regular 42 burn aura which was kinda silly But he got nerfed for that and then cinderhulk got nerfed

A champion who has been considered fair to play against has received nerfs on everything while unfair champs reign in pick and winrate for months at a time then get tickled with the nerf feather and receive massive buffs after because blowback from a bunch of salty abusers

fkn dumb balancing rly

AirKingNeo9/7/2017, 9:45:10 PM2 votes

Riot buffs more than they nerf, you're just stating a bunch of irrelevant things to try to prove a point.

Look at the last 3 patches. More buffs than nerfs. Why? Because nerfing Sejuanni and doing their job is "hard".

badooga9/8/2017, 1:22:18 AM1 votes

Karthus had his W become a decaying slow (i.e. a nerf) back in 5.24.

HeroMeat11/6/2017, 11:35:29 PM1 votes

{quoted}

BULL SHIT. I can't even believe this some how made it to the top of boards. Are there truely this many people that have NEVER read a patch notes in THEIR LIFE?

I'll go as far as to say that Riot RARELY gives champions any significant buffs - whereas they're happy with GUTTING champions and their items and leaving them in the gutter.

Examples off the top of my head in the past 2 seasons:

Udyr - nerfed everything and then nerfed Runic Echoes and removed devourer Yi - Nerfed everything then removed devourer Lucian - Nerfed all ranges, nerfed damages, increased mana costs, and in compensation he got some fluidity and early game passive buffs. Leblanc - Nerfed literally every base damage and AP ratio. Camille - Nerfed everything Darius - Nerfed damage/CDs/Handle Damg/other things i can't remember Varus - Nerfed damage & CDs. Jhin - Nerfed damage & utility & DFT.

Gonna just start going down champion list. I'll list buffs too but some champs have had pretty much no changes.

Amumu - Passigve changed, now more team oriented. Ahri - Nerfed her W damage and some other stuff I can't recall. Anivia - Changed her E + R interaction maknig her much harder to play Ashe - Q uptime reduced, W cd increased, Q damage reduced Azir - GUTTED Bard - Buffed Blitz - Ult cd nerfed Brand - Nerfed slightly in terms of damage b/c of support Caitlyn - GUTTED Camille - Nerfed Q damage, W heal, and ult duration. Cassiopeia - Pretty sure just got some small nerfs on E. Changed E to be more reliant on Q - making her harder to play Cho'Gath - Buffed and is retarded RN Corki - Nerfed over and over and over again (110% autos > 100%, R nerfed, base AD nerfed, other nerfs). Compensated with more magic damg on autos. Darius - went over Diana - ? Dr Mundo - Nerfed super hard before in terms of E damage - getting some weird MR shit now. Draven - Shift from early to later (bonus instead of Base AD scaling on Q - ALSO nerfed passive) Ekko - Nerfed a LOT in terms of utility (W stun duration lowered, Q base damage lowered, Ult HEAL lowered, no slow on passive anymore. W % health damg lowered). Compensated in terms of some scalings and E Cd recently reduced slightly Elise - Pretty much forever nerfed. Still being nerfe don PBE Eve - Pretty much gutted since the start of time. Ezreal - Nerfed because of blue Ez, but has actually gotten some good buffs over time Fiddle - Buff on passive, I guess? Useless champ. Fiora - Nerfed a shit ton, getting a FRACTION of her power back in buffs Fizz - Nerfed E cd before - got some of it back EARLY - but still worse at later ranks. Also ULT latch-on removed. W base damage lowered. Galio - Changed, nerfed repeatedly GP - Nerfed repeatedly Garen - Actually buffed a lot Gnar - Nerfed hard - put some power back into him. Meta again > nerf again Gragas - Nerfed R interaction, nerfed CDs, nerfed damages, nerfed scalings. 3 base armour & heal passive stronger compensation buffs Graves - NERFED over and over and over again. E nerfed dumb hard. R damage nerfed, Q damage nerfed Hecarim - Nerfed hard in early clear, Q damage & base damage. A small QoL buff. Heimer - Umm? Illaoi - Dunno, pretty sure buffed. Irelia - Nerfed a lot after triforce changes (ult Cd mostly) Ivern - Nerfed over and over and over again. Mostly on E shield & Daisy Janna - Usually prone to nerfs, actualyl got hit with some nerfs Jarvan - Buff/Nerf? Got more shielding I guess - better tank but less of a duelist now. Jax - Don't remember Jayce - Randomly buffed - super oppressive, nerfed a lot afterwards. R switch damage increase. Jhin - already discussed Jinx - Rocket attack speed ratio lowered. Actually buffed on ult damage. Kalista - GUTTED before, small QoL buffs and meta shift brought her back. Karma - Nerfed E shield SO much, also nerfed Q damage iirc. Karthus - ? Kassadin - Buffed Katarina - Nerfed ever since rework Kayle - ? Kennen - Nerfed everything. Nerfed AP kennen hard. Then AD kennen is meta so nerf that too. Kha'zix - Nerfed Q bonus damage (after rework, because he was meta for a while). Kindred - Gutted Kled - ? Kog'Maw - Buffed maybe? I think AP kog was gutted. LB - GUTTED Lee Sin - Ult CD hurt hard, and ult damage Leona - ? Maybe buffs iirc Lissandra - ? Maybe small buffs - iirc it didn't fix her problems Lucian - already discussed Lulu - Nerfed shield, nerfed W, nerfed Q. Lux - Buffs to ult CD reset Malphite - ? Malz - Made viable again after being gutted Maokai - Nerfed the shit out of him before rework (AP Mao Support). Now we have this monstrosity because every other JG nerfed. Yi - discussed Mf - ? Morde - Nerfed Morgana - ? Nami - Nerfed healing Nasus - Buffs Naut - Pretty much hit with the gutterino Nidalee - Gutted Nocturne - ? Nunu - ? Buffed Olaf - Olafed Ori - Nerfed Pantheon - ? Pretty sure small nerfs, maybe nothing. Poppy - nerfed hard Quinn - ? Rammus - Changed Rek sai - reworked Renekton - Changed him then reverted. Pretty sure they tried nerfing him but i don't remember Rengar - Gutted Riven - Buffed on ult damage, weird. Rumble - Nerfed hard Ryze - GUTTED Sejuani - Reworked. Was nerfed since rework though Shaco - Nerfed to hell Shen - Nerfed so god damn much after rework Shyvana - ? Singed - Rework was a buff? I guess Sion - Buffed (ult damage) Sivir - Buffed? 30 damg skarner - Nerfed to hell Sona - nerfed A LOT since her rework Soraka - NErfed W a lot Swain - Nerfed a lot - small QoL buffs before though IIRc Syndra - Repeatedly nerfed in damage Tahm Kench - Nerfed devour MS, nerfed E shield, dunno about other things. Passive damg stronger? Taliyah - Nerfed Talon - reworked - nerfed, still strong. Taric - Buffed Teemo - ? Made his shrooms last for shroter amoujnt of time. Thresh - Nerfed flay Trist - Small Q cd buff Trundle - untouched? Trynd - ? TF - ? Twitch - Nerf to attack speed from Q , W buffed and stealth duration buffed (camoflaouge was a nerf though to all stealth). Udyr - lul Urgot - Reworked, is bad. Varus - nerfed Vayne - buffed then reverted. Q not hits towers so i guess buff Veigar - ? Vel'Koz - actualyl got some buffs on ratios Vi - ? Viktor - Nerfed hard on itemization and damg Vlad - Nerfed damage and CDs and healing. Hes been nerfed pretty heavily since rework. Volibear - Attack speed nerf on W for pretty much no reason. More chain lightning buff but it doesn't matter? WW - Rework into nerfs here and there. Maybe unchanged, don't remember. Wukong - ? Xerath - ? Xin Zhao - ? Yasuo - Nerfed Q base, nerfed E cd and damg Yorick - Reworked, bad Zac - "reworked", buffed into ridiculousness and nerfed into obscurity Zed - Nerfed W cd, W + Q interaction, and multiple Q damg (unless 3). Ziggs - Buffs to sieging Zilean - ? Zyra - Nerfed super ahrd because of support.

THERE YOU GO.

Does it LOOK like Riot BUFFS champions uncontrollably? Or does it seem like Riot NERFs champions 80% of the time and other champions become "strong" BECAUSE other champions got nerfed.

Riot MOSTLY buffs itemization, and RARELY buffs champions. I.E. lethality/cinderhulk/IE buffs are the things that shifted the meta. Not because Riot "buffed" x champion. They've also been NERFING lethality/cinderhulk ever since it became oppressive.

The only reason ADCs are SO strong rn is because they're one of the classes that hasn't had their itemization gutted (in fact BUFFED - but LW was actually NERFED, allowing tanks to be so strong). Also support itemization is ridiculous too - knight's vow, ardent, redemption, locket.

TL;DR: Riot nerfs things WAY more than they buff things. If you want to prove me wrong then show it. I've listed every champion change for the past couple of seasons (to the best of my ability) - but maybe I'm COMPLETELY wrong and Riot has been secretly buffing champions.

nerfing lots of the champs is good for long good games

Drugoth9/8/2017, 4:34:49 PM1 votes

Ahri's charm used to amplify all damage the target took for a short time, they completely removed that lol

BoilTheOil9/7/2017, 10:19:51 PM1 votes

I don't see that at the top of the boards though

Blåbæret9/7/2017, 10:57:19 PM1 votes

This thread is bullshit. Riot buffs champions that don't need it literally every patch. The nerfs they hand out are mostly insignificant. We have damage creep partly because Riot buffs more than they nerf.

Downvoted and moving on.

woodvsmurph9/7/2017, 11:47:16 PM1 votes

Udyr - just got a ton of buffs. Plus current items allow him to overcome his "weakness" in being kiteable - once he closes the gap, he pretty much murders anything 1v1 Yi - buff to his ult - not wasting its duration when he enters meditate - also very much broken if you don't have tons of hard cc

lucian - still no mana issues in most scenarios and very much top tier mid and respectable adc lb - yeah, yet she's still very solid early/mid game; late game, she could probably use some help - they should look into making her scale better by making her more durable or give durability enhancing items she can purchase - zhonya doesn't really help darius - nerfs were way long ago, anyone who plays toplane and isn't a total darius fanboy at cost of being blind to reality will tell you the nerfs were justified mumu - actually got buffed - and no it doesn't require any more team play then before brand - totally incorrect - he was fine before, they literally just added another basic ability worth of damage onto his kit for landing multiple spells on a target mundo - wasn't nerfed fiora - lost MOVESPEED bonus for vitals and ult - something that made her nigh impossible to escape from on top of her already stupidly overloaded damage - like 54% TRUE DAMAGE for hitting someone 4 times PLUS she gets healing from it? Completely justified and very lenient compared to how they could have nerfed her kha - nerfed q damage; BUFFED isolated q damage to more than it was before; it's was already way too high before considering how durable he actually is leona - claimed they buffed cuz more damage from her passive, but lost much more in durability and base damage on spells early when she's already not the tankiest support despite having to commit more than a taric or thresh to engage rengar - not trash like everyone claims; just doesn't fit people's fantasy for him; there is a difference sej - top tier jg since rework trundle - buffed/reverted - can chomp towers again and I believe got some dmg back on his q yorick - actually very good champ - nigh unkillable 1v1 if he plays smart, strong pushing power, can ult, leave lane for a 5v5, and still take down enemy tower and farm in lane halfway across map while teamfighting thanks to ult zac - probably nerfed him all backwards - he was too reliable of long range engage - if his e missed, he still cc'd you and gave his team a free kill. Instead of decreasing the reliability and leaving him otherwise untouched, they nerfed all his damages - making jungling a pain