Riot, allow smite to be used at all levels.

Ben Sharpio··267 votes·8,229 views

We all know that you have to be level 10 in order to get smite. I'll keep this post short and simple, as usual. This is a very bad thing. There has been multiple occasions where someone has already reached level 10, but is matched with those who are under that level. Why is this bad? Because we have our good old friend item 3930 item 3931 item 3932

Sated devourer.

With nobody, even experienced players (smurfs) to even do the simplest forms of counterjungling, those who are level 10 are open to freely farm on both ends of the jungle, and have sated devourer in no time. I can only imagine the annoyance new players must have with this item. So at around 20 minutes, when the enemy jungler is sated, the game is pretty much over from the massive power-spike that person receives at such an early time of the game.

These are my thoughts, do you agree?

Also: can someone justify not having smite available to all levels?

94 Comments

The Bearded Bard73 votes

Allow all summoner spells at all levels. Allow all masteries at all levels. How is it fair that summoner 1 gets to use flash when summoner 2 can't? How is it fair for summoner 3 to be able to use a keystone mastery but summoner 4 can't? Outside factors should be available to all.

On a side note, I don't like that runes aren't available to all at all times, but understand why they aren't. Masteries and spells on the otherhand, are completely free, therefore you're just giving some players an unfair advantage simply because they've played the game longer, which is alright in an adventure rpg setting, but simply unfair in a pvp only setting.

Old Man Teeto13 votes

Gotta sell those EXP boosts yo.

PapaGreg2119 votes

Handicapping the success of new players has been a time honored tradition in league

R2D203 votes

I laughed.

Noam Braumsky4 votes

I cried.

Playboi Soju3 votes

i died

AmetDeCrypt3 votes

I hid the bodies.

Bedl44m1 votes

Honestly this statement right here is what keeps me from advising my friends to play the game. They will be like "league is free to play? Can I play with you?"

No friends, because it will be a year before you can actually "play with me"

dr lichdeath1 votes

i actually rushed to lvl 30 within 2 months by spamming games and feeding xD they all reported me tough for sucking

Bedl44m1 votes

that sounds awful. Props for the dedication though! [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Lord Chiroptera7 votes

(I apologize in advance for the word wall.)

Okay, I highly agree that they should make all Summoner spells available at all levels. With that said, I don't think they should do the same with Masteries and Runes. Summoner spells are extremely helpful in-game and they can literally change the tide of the game with Smite on JG'ers. Just last night I played a game with my level 6 friend to help her level up and I, like always, called top. We had a Sona mid, a MF and a Tahm Kench bot, so she was stuck going JG with Pantheon. We ended up winning the game (mostly because of the Sona), but she had an extremely hard time leveling. I believe we won the game with everybody level 18, Kench at 17, and she was at level 12 still. I just feel like that's ridiculous. She can't JG because she doesn't have Smite because what, she hasn't played long enough? Then again, though, I do still feel that, if for nothing else than for marketing purposes, Riot needs to keep some leveling-based perks in the game that still affect the game itself, like Masteries and Runes.

Masteries are important to in-game, sure, but nowhere near as much as Summoner spells, so I feel like that's something they could leave as a leveling-based perk. Runes, then, are even less important to in-game success. Again, they are important and they're extremely helpful, but there are people who win games without them. And when I say in-game success, I think I mean more that, without, say, Smite, there's almost no way to correctly work your position in the game, whereas Masteries and Runes aren't going to hinder your ability to JG. They might hinder your ability to JG WELL, but you can still JG correctly without them. They aren't a necessity for fitting your position on the map. Now I fail at League and know next to nothing about its mechanics and all that jazz. However, I'm pretty sure I'm not wrong on this one. If I am, I apologize. However, I still say Summoner spells are probably the only thing that would hinder someone's ability to simply fit their position on the map.

I would also like to address the fairness you mentioned. You say that the Masteries and Runes give an unfair advantage to some because they've played longer, but that's not the case. Masteries and Runes are a player-chosen thing. Yes, the slots to get them are leveling-based and the quality of the Runes are leveling-based, but the player still chooses which Runes and Masteries to use both in their sets and which set they use in each game. Now this already kind of disproves the unfairness only because just because people have the slots, doesn't mean they're going to use them correctly. Veigar hurts a lot with his AP, so if you build MR, you can defend against him a little better. But, if you're doing blind pick, you don't know you're up against a Veigar, so say you build AP as well. Now you're just making it harder for yourself. The more AP you have, the more damage he does to you with his own AP, so whether or not your item build consists of MR, your Runes and Masteries still give AP and that's going to put you at a slight disadvantage. Basically, just because somebody has the potential and capability to be at an advantage, doesn't mean they know how to or will do so.

Now I addressed that, but I should also say the other part of it for safe measure. I main Gnar, who is typically built either AD or Juggernaut or both. Of the two games I built AD, I lost one and won the other. Of the 15 games I built Juggernaut, I only won 3 and lost 12. Now, of the 18 games I played building AP Gnar, I lost 10 and won 8. Also, since I fail at this game, people who main Gnar and are good at League would probably do a lot better when doing the same build as me. Where I'm going with this is that most people build a certain way against Gnar because he generally goes AD or Juggernaut. People on my team also get mad at me for building AP because something or other about scaling. So people don't expect me to build AP against them. Therefore, when I do, it throws them off and they, for a second, can't adapt fast enough, giving me enough time to get in a kill or at least base them. So whether or not they have more or less Masteries and/or Runes than me, I still built mine different than they were expecting, so they weren't able to fight me as well. Putting this in a more objective setting, if someone were to build something the enemy wouldn't expect or that isn't all that common, even if it only works a little bit, it will still throw the enemy off enough to give you an advantage, so the amount of Masteries and Runes someone has doesn't matter near as much as Summoner spells.

8Hz98hmIDG3 votes

I agree with all of this. Summoner spells for all, masteries and runes as you level. Although I do still feel like the Tier 1 and Tier 2 Runes are just a noob trap. They should just get rid of tier 1 and 2 runes and keep the level 20 cap on the tier 3 runes (Or as they'd be called if this happened: Runes).

KANYE OBAMA GOD1 votes

Wait, if you knew that your friend couldn't jungle well due to them not having the ability to use smite, why didn't you jungle instead? lol

Lord Chiroptera1 votes

Because until... well, today, actually, I sucked at every lane except top. I've gone mid twice and ADC twice, so I'm not sure if those REALLY count, but both ADC times and both mid times I fed HARD. It was bad. And until today, I thought it'd be the same with support. Apparently, I'm actually a half-decent-on-occasion Raka. I've JG'ed about 13 times now and every time I did so I was the lowest level other than one time, which I was only beating someone who AFK'd the whole game, so... I suck at JG, too and I figured since she was first time JG'ing, who knows? She might've had a surprising affinity for JG'ing. Granted, she didn't, but I didn't know that at the time.

shadecrapper1 votes

Its only a problem once it becomes lvl 2-3 vs lvl 15+. Which happens on a regular bases :(

Penns1 votes

I guess it is like that to have some "progression". I dont like it tho

Penguin Eclipse23 votes

I am sure this will be changed when riot addresses the terrible new player experience. I heard rumors they have plans to get this done sometime before season 20 but that is just hearsay. Could very well take longer.

HighH19 votes

Well duh they have to release Ao Shin and Sandbox mode first oh and how could I forget the Yorick Rework with a new skin

Photos of Ghosts3 votes

Yorick is the next big rework after Taric, which means Shen (currently on PBE) > Taric > other Shen/Fiora/Trist-like > Yorick > other poopie > Urgot/Warwick or potentially someone else.

HighH12 votes

Joke----->

Your Head------->

Photos of Ghosts1 votes

Why do you think I didn't get it? I just found it had no rational foundation and hence wasn't funny.

HighH11 votes

Ao Shin was teased 3 years ago but hasn't been released and the community has been using it as a joke saying he'll never be released just like how Riot is being mocked for never improving the new player experience.Sandbox mode was something the community asked for yet Riot turned it down but never actually saying it's never gonna happen so we tease them for not releasing Sandbox mode. Yorick was promised a rework I don't know how long ago(and never getting a skin since release) yet it still hasn't happened YET thus it is in my joke along with the other 2 that they'll never be released just like how the new player experience will be shit for a long time.

Photos of Ghosts1 votes

God damnit. Don't put Yorick in there, because "Yorick is never coming" today is nothing but based on intentional ignorance. Don't spread misinformation. PLEASE. Yes the team is taking wayyyy too long for how big this game is, but c'mon, as of number and order of reworks they've been strictly following the schedule for like 8 months already. After big Poppy, small Shen. After small Shen, either very small X or big Taric. After big Taric, small x2, x3, xn. After those, big Yorick.

HighH11 votes

it's a joke not a dick don't take it so hard. Why so serious?

Photos of Ghosts1 votes

You're spreading misinformation, which is a bad habit of humanity and must be deleted.

Lord Chiroptera1 votes

Okay, earlier you said he was being intentionally ignorant, meaning he's doing his best to NOT know what he's talking about, which would involve going out of his way so as to never learn about the conversation he's having. Now you're saying he's "spreading misinformation" when I think you want to say spreading incorrect information. Misinformation is information that is purposely made incorrect or skewed for the sole purpose of deceiving people or manipulating them.

So now I pose a question to you. If he's deliberately trying to NOT know what he's talking about and, at the same time, spreading information he knows is incorrect just to deceive and manipulate people, how would he know the information is wrong in the first place? He would have to know the correct information so that he would be able to spread wrong information with the purpose of deceiving, because you can't just give out random information or even wrong information and hope it'll deceive people. You have to make sure the information is incorrect in a way so that it will deceive someone. But if he doesn't know what's correct, how does he know the information is incorrect in that specific way?

Also, you can just say "fixed". No need to go all "deleted" and be some Terminator or something...

Lord Chiroptera1 votes

Why do people feel the need to make their words sound smarter when they're being called out for not getting a joke? Is it some kind of defense mechanism or something? Seriously, I've met tons of brilliant people who use everyday words and some really stupid people who use words you'll only find in an unabridged dictionary, like, twice per sentence.

By the way, it had no "rational foundation" because it was a joke. I know this because that sentence without the defense mechanism just says "I just found it pointless and off-topic, so it wasn't funny." But for the record, jokes tend to be off-topic and, depending on your concept of "pointless," jokes are supposed to be that, too. Again, no need for the fancy words. And if you do use them, try to use it for the exact definition. I get that synonyms that are longer and harder to pronounce than the original words seem fun to use, but they also have different definitions. They're different words for a reason.

Photos of Ghosts1 votes

It's perpetuating a meme based on misinformation, and I'm tired of all these people not knowing about announcements and then having an opinion about them.

Lord Chiroptera1 votes

You're doing that thing again. First of all, I never had an opinion on any announcement here to begin with. If you mean the other person you were talking to here, he made a joke. Jokes =/= opinions in case you missed that. Also, I don't know what meme is based on misinformation, but whatever it is, its "perpetuation" had nothing to do with our conversation, so why you bring it up is lost to me.

Photos of Ghosts1 votes

The fact that "Yorick's rework never comes despite promise lels" is a meme. And it's illegitimacy is the reason I answered in the first place.

KANYE OBAMA GOD1 votes

Hey Riot said that Ao Shin might actually be released this year, I'll look for a source.

EDIT: https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/32nbo4/league_of_legends_2014_time_capsule_opened/cqdibbe

Most likely gonna be mid to late this year.

HighH11 votes

"We have absolutely no idea. Definitely not any time soon. I would not put money on it being this year."-DanielZKlein

That does not mean released in 2016

KANYE OBAMA GOD1 votes

Yeah it doesn't mean that Ao Shin is definitely due for 2016, but it means he's most likely coming this year. That's why I said "might actually be released this year" not "is definitely gonna be released this year."

TurquoiseYoshi20 votes

Here's my point to everyone complaining about the early-game experience: The new players don't know any better. They don't know what Smite is or how to use it. Honestly, gradually introducing summoners to people is probably the best idea, as the players will see and experiment with them as they obtain them.

-Someone who joined League in early Season 5.

Retillin6 votes

But the problem is, you are not introduced to them. It's just "okay you have flash now". What what does it do? What's the range? Can I flash over walls? Nothing, it's just trial and error.

TurquoiseYoshi8 votes

And so these Level 8 players learn. It's basic human nature to learn. It would be worse if you got them all at Level 1, as then you would have to learn ~10 spells right off the bat.

Aeszarck8 votes

You make good points. Another problem with giving Smite to early level people is the difficulty of jungling in the first place. It's relatively easy to be a top, mid, or bottom laner. Being a support is a lot harder conceptually (I'm relatively new, think I joined when Rek'Sai was the latest champion, and I still remember my pre-thirty experience), but it's not something that's necessary to learn when you start the game. Jungling, however, is a step above those four roles. I remember playing with my silver friend, and he normally played Vi or Lee Sin jungle in my games because we didn't have a jungler most of the time. So after I got my first champion, I decided to save up for Vi and get her because I didn't want to be stuck in games without a jungler. After I got her, I tried her out. Died on my first clear. Tried another game. Died on my first clear. Gave up Vi and started playing Lissandra (my other champion) again. I did not like jungling, and I did not know what I was doing wrong. I was following a highly approved guide on MobaFIRE, buying the starting items and putting points into all the right masteries. I didn't have Runes, but my friends were certain that it was possible to jungle with only masteries. My problem? I had 14 points into the offense tree, and none into the defense tree. I thought I had to fill up the offense tree before I started working on the 9 points that would go into the defense tree. I was wrong. My silver friend became exasperated with me, asked me what my masteries were, and had me change into 5/9/0. What a change. I was suddenly clearing the jungle without [major] problems. So, in summary, it took me a lot of time to get used to the jungle, even with a strong jungler and a guide from C9 Meteos. I don't think that it would be a healthy decision to overwhelm new players with all five roles at once. Force them to learn the easy roles first, and then they can start taking cracks at supporting and jungling once they get used to the game and get masteries. The jungle is going to be inhospitable for new players even if they have smite, because unless you're playing Nunu or another really strong sustain jungler, you're going to die on a first clear.

Lord Chiroptera1 votes

I could be wrong, but from what I can see, if they don't know how to use it or what it is, then it gives all the more reason to make it accessible at all levels. I'ma set up a hypothetical situation for myself, but if it seems good, go for it.

Say someone's watching their friend play League as a JG'er. Then, they find it really fun watching the ganks, so they decide to install League and main JG'er role. They get in, and start JG'ing. They started out with it and their friend helped out, so they have a fair idea of what to do. Starting out immediately without Mastery points is going to be a pain, sure, but if you don't have good masteries for JG'ing, get a leash, Heal, and Smite, and you won't die your first camp. If you really want to be safe, ask if they wouldn't mind helping leash just one more to level you up and give you more of an advantage. That shows that Masteries won't be TOO much of a problem if you know how to work around it. Also, please note that I SUCK at JG'ing, so if it seems like I'm speaking out of my rear end, it's probably true.

That's a very specific situation, sure, but the concept still applies and it carries over. Smite at level 1 helps them adapt to the idea of using it and how, when, and why it would be executed early instead of having to wait until level 10 and THEN start adapting. I posted a reply to another comment on this thread, but I'll restate it and shorten it here. I was playing a game where I called top because, at the time, I was only good at top. Turns out I'm maybe-sort-of-half-decent with support Raka, so now that's my secondary if needed. But back to the match, I went top Gnar, we had a Sona mid (who was pretty much the only reason we won), and a Miss Fortune and Tahm Kench in bot lane. My friend, who was also playing, was then stuck first timing JG at level 6. I had played JG and I had Smite, but I sucked at it and I figured there was a VERY slight chance she could have had a natural talent at JG'ing, so she went with the first sort-of-JG Champion she listed, which was Pantheon.

I leashed her three times and, by the end of the game, she was still only level 12 compared to everyone else's 18 and one 17. Sona also got fed in mid and carried, but y'know, whatever. So when these lower levels get stuck somewhere or, worse, there's a four-man premade and the last person is stuck with the only open position which is JG, they tend to do badly and then the experience of JG'ing could potentially be ruined for them. Giving Smite to all levels just helps people fit their own role on the map well. It's like a nerf for a whole role rather than a specific Champion.

Moxu Kraze9 votes

I don't think a new player should understand the concept of jungling before farming, or laning; so I don't think that is a big issue. It does give new players some breathing space before getting introduced to too many new concepts, It also forces them to try out different spells. When I first started jungling, I didn't even know what benefit it has, I did it only because my friends said we need a jungler (had no idea why). Same concept applies to mastery, if a new player doesn't know what life steal or tenacity means, how are they going to choose from all that?

Xicashina4 votes

Just .... I can't even, Um if there in your jungle than catch them out and kill them, you'll catch them before their team can respond.

blkKalameet14 votes

You expect lvl 10 New players to know to do that? Or even to know how to ward right to catch them going into there jungle?

Or do you expect the whole team to patrol the jungle at all times?

Avios110 votes

They probably ward better than people in my ELO.

Hah.

hah..

I'll leave now.

Rux1004 votes

Even if they allowed smite to be used pre-10, you still cant jungle. not right away anyway. I remember when i hit ten, i bought warwick and tried to jungle. still had big problems, since i had no runes and few masteries.

Now what they should do is fix the smurf problem. New players have terribad experiences cuz a smurf jinx gets fed in 8 minutes and comes out of a bush with a mysterious red ring on her shoes and shes suddenly burning down summoners rift, and everyone is like wtf wtf wtf. now thats a problem.

I suppose one thing they could do is lock 1-9 lvls away in their own bracket? that way you wouldnt have 9 and under teaming w/ 10 and up, so there would be no unfair advantage.

I have to say though i think that keeping certain things from players at first is a good idea. What would keep players playing if they didnt have anything to work towards? Give you everything off the bat you say? not have to try and level up for anything extra you say? well thats BORING, and would make smurfing an even bigger problem. Also xp boosts make money.

Only Play Darius3 votes

Doesn't help that one of the most iconic noob-stompers synergizes so well with sated devourer MasterYi

TruckFump20162 votes

who cares about under-30 play?

BluePolarizer12 votes

if you care about keeping the game alive with new players, you should care.

Now the real question is, why does anyone care about sub gold ranked? It's all worthless compared to plat+ and competitive.

Photos of Ghosts4 votes

Now the real question is, why does anyone care about over plat ranked? They're ridiculously few and can choose to ply badly so as to adapt to the majority, while the majority can't choose to becmoe like them.

xnxHUNTERxnx2 votes

bot games are not designed around a jg position so it doesn't make sense to allow lower level to use it until they are ready to play pvp imo

criizzash1 votes

That would mean level 3, not 10.

xnxHUNTERxnx1 votes

i still have to disagree a player unless a smurf account is not ready to be potentially matched with a level 20 or 30 and it does happen

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