I just don't get why RIOT has never decided to simply REMOVE a mechanic from Yasuo

Mega Annie X·Jan 27, 2019·95 votes·19,363 views

Any mechanic. Doesn't matter which one. Just remove something from this easy mode facerolling hero.

I think the shield passive is easily the best to remove. It has no game mechanic other than giving someone an unfavorable trade

It's bad enough as opponents of this "champion" we must contend with the following:

ungodly tilted trades due to free no effort shields
three directional immunity to ranged missiles that last basically half a teamfight
Unlimited dashes because why shouldn't he get 6 free dashes per minion wave?
50% bonus armor pen on a 2k range ult because.....why not?
double crit because... He wouldn't be effective with out it...
faster cooldowns with attack speed because...Why should he waste gold on CDR...

164 Comments

SwiftCraneJan 27, 201939 votes

You forgot to mention one of possibly the best CC abilities.

Not only does it not fully take up a spell slot, it's incredibly easy to get, goes through minions, stuns any amount of people, can crit and does a lot of damage, has decent range and is a followup to his stupid ult. This is all while so many mid mages struggle to have reliable CC that has even one of those attributes.

It's laughable how overloaded riot allows him to be.

Blackfin97Jan 27, 20197 votes

Oh, don't ignore the part where he causally walks up to the raptor's pit and stabs it through the other side.

Needs skills to do that.

IPromiseTomorrowJan 27, 20195 votes

"Possibly one of the best cc abilities"

Are you trying to face Yasuo when he's in minions? Are you trying not to kite him?

Are you over stepping Yasuo?

You have to win vs Yasuo to know he's not Op. He's the Champ I've lost to the least. (37.4% loss rate) Know the Champ then ask for nerfs.

SwiftCraneJan 27, 20198 votes

{quoted}

"Possibly one of the best cc abilities"

Are you trying to face Yasuo when he's in minions? Are you trying not to kite him?

Are you over stepping Yasuo?

You have to win vs Yasuo to know he's not Op. He's the Champ I've lost to the least. (37.4% loss rate) Know the Champ then ask for nerfs.

When he's in minions? You mean during the entire game?

I don't care what the winrates are.

All I know is he's designed in such a way that prevents me from having fun when facing him.

He's incredibly overloaded and unfun to play against.

edit

oh lmao just looked at your profile and the types of cancer champs you play... figures you'd be defending him

Spicy RiceJan 27, 20195 votes

So basically, you don't have any objective reasons for changing him, just your subjective opinion that he prevents you from having fun.

DerPunktJan 27, 20198 votes

Though you are right with pointing that out.

Isn't this what League breaks down to on core? Having fun?

DivewingJan 27, 20194 votes

That argument does not apply in ranked.

I think there should be a measure of "this is too shitty to play against" that is factored in to balancing, even for ranked, but it should not be the determining factor

Spicy RiceJan 27, 20191 votes

Not necessarily, at the very least, not when balancing a competitive game.

DerPunktJan 28, 20192 votes

Thats just plain wrong.

I know some people like to believe it, because there are so many people grinding and losing the fun, but no GAME ever was created without the purpose of creating a pleasent experience which is described as fun. As soon as a game stops being fun to its audience they stop playing it.

And yes some people have fun playing chess, some have fun playing tabletennisfootball. Some play utlimate frisbee.

To further bring that point across. Just look for all the people that make videos about how they ending their league career because it is just no fun anymore. And yeah there might be some pro's who have basically no fun, that what happens when hobbies become work. The fun is spoiled, but deep down they still like it.

I wanna see you create a competition that is not fun and make it a big thing. It is impossible you can have some minorities getting their fun out of just being good at it, but it will never become as big. You forget that several million people play league and only a few thousands play it professionally. Not even 10% it would claim strive to become pros anyway. They just wanna have fun. And without the fun playerbase, the pro base would not be where it was.

Ever watched any minority sports event? They have no money at all to drop on their pros and the champion ships are literally held in community centres.

IPromiseTomorrowJan 28, 20191 votes

The more down votes I get the more easy it is to tell who can't win against Yasuo XD

My goodness if you have an opinion back it up with something besides lack of competence You know he's in his minion wave just let him push up and then harass under tower. You're probably not going to meet pro Yasuo's with your attitude. Yasuo

Listen to a Yasuo main how to counter one instead of arguing why I'm wrong actually figure out for yourself why you keep losing.

I can give advice actually clear cut advice, I'm not giving it here since that's off the point of this comment. And I do defend this champ and others that's no different than someone defending their mains.

SwiftCraneJan 28, 20191 votes

{quoted}

The more down votes I get the more easy it is to tell who can't win against Yasuo XD

My goodness if you have an opinion back it up with something besides lack of competence You know he's in his minion wave just let him push up and then harass under tower. You're probably not hung to meet pro Yasuo's with your attitude.

Listen to a Yasuo main how to counter one instead of arguing why I'm wrong actually figure out for yourself why you keep losing.

I can give advice actually clear cut advice, I'm not giving it here since that's off the point of this comment. And I do defend this champ and others that's no different than someone defending their mains.

"Listen to a Yasuo main" Yeah, I'm sure that makes you unbiased as can be.

The people downvoting you are evidence that people don't like to play against yasuo because he is cancer so they disagree with you trying to defend him. You're clearly too biased to see that.

SaezioJan 28, 20192 votes

{quoted}

"Listen to a Yasuo main" Yeah, I'm sure that makes you unbiased as can be.

The people downvoting you are evidence that people don't like to play against yasuo because he is cancer so they disagree with you trying to defend him. You're clearly too biased to see that.

Yasuo is not a very powerful champion unless his opposition makes consistent bad decisions. I can back this up with yasuo stats in D+ where people actually know what a champion does when they come up against it. There have been yasuo hate threads ever since his inception and 99,9% of those were from people with rank bronze-gold. Just show me a pro/challenger player that ever cried about yasuo. I can show you plenty challenger people that have cried about other champs like irelia for example. Just play Yasuo and you will see how "easy" he is or how "strong".

SwiftCraneJan 28, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Yasuo is not a very powerful champion unless his opposition makes consistent bad decisions. I can back this up with yasuo stats in D+ where people actually know what a champion does when they come up against it. There have been yasuo hate threads ever since his inception and 99,9% of those were from people with rank bronze-gold. Just show me a pro/challenger player that ever cried about yasuo. I can show you plenty challenger people that have cried about other champs like irelia for example. Just play Yasuo and you will see how "easy" he is or how "strong".

Where did I say he's powerful, strong or easy? Just curious why you'd put those words in my mouth.

The problem is he is unfun to play against because he is so terribly designed. His kit has too much stuff that allows him to now only snowball and be a menace when far behind but to be also unbelievably oppressive when ahead.

It doesn't mean he's impossible to deal with when it comes to coordinated teams in very high elo. All it means is that people hate the champion and the edgelords who main him. Not to mention yasuo players having an infamously toxic reputation.

In lower elo he IS easy. Someone not being able to first time him isn't surprising since he has so many abilities. The problem is it doesn't take long to learn the basic premise of the champ, and once you do you have to put in a much lower amount of effort to match and oppress your opponent then they do to counter you.

The reason he's worse in higher elo is because people just hard push against him, and your teammates actually back off when you call mia.

That doesn't change the fact that he essentially forces you to sit back under turret the whole time and saps any fun you could have had.

Yasuo is not a very powerful champion unless his opposition makes consistent bad decisions.

This is possibly the core of the problem with him. He essentially forces you to sit under turret and cower away from your CS. Make the slightest mistake? Dead. Try to trade? Dead.

Yasuo on the other hand gets so many crutches and safety nets its almost impossible to punish his mistakes. Overextends? Just dash up to 7 times back to turret.

Ganked? Has hard CC and windwall.

Can't dodge CC? Windwall.

Get hit by poke? No problem, saved by passive.

Somehow losing and behind? No problem only need 2 items for full crit.

Ult someone that was under turret because you don't have the brainpower to think before you act? Game puts you out of range every time.

Ult someone when there's other people around? Get a free shield.

He is allowed to make "consistent bad decisions" without any possible punishment short of a few hard counter champions.

That's why he's cancer.

SaezioJan 28, 20192 votes

So you are saying he needs to be changed not nerfed I can agree with this but you have to understand many people here are under the impression Yasuo is a STRONG CHAMPION, which is just false.

Also, yasuo can't undo overextending by dashing because your minions will be under your own tower if he has overextended so him dashing would result in him being under tower His hard CC needs to be set up and travels extremely slow unless you allow him to E on you with his 3Q which is like complaining you cant duel darius after he got 5 stacks on you.

Bottom line, sure yasuo is unique in the ways you deal with him and you need to actually play the champion to know when the windows to punish him are, but if you think that alone is reason enough to change him I can't argue with that, my personal opinion is people should not complain about champions that are not inherently strong. For example I find Irelia Aatrox Urgot Viktor Camille to have much more problematic kits at the moment. Yet next to none complains about them because they are not prevalent in low elo.

FlameHalbrdOkidoJan 29, 20192 votes

Oh i LOVE how his ult basically says "nope" to every form of counter play that could be thought against it, and how much it rewards him regardless of just how little work he has to put in to use it. And I can state those facts if u want me 2.

Akali is SO HOTJan 27, 201920 votes

They removed the passive bonus flow from his W. They made his ult pen bonus only apply to crits. He's only really ever needed slight kit adjustments and number changes, because nothing in his kit is problematic for good players.

BlåbæretJan 27, 20194 votes

Wind wall xd

IPromiseTomorrowJan 27, 20192 votes

Even that got nerfed It was before you were born Yasuo

JackD4n13lsJan 27, 201918 votes

yea remove his shield, so squishies will have a chance to face him

ThefrostyvikingJan 27, 20195 votes

I personally dislike Yas, a lot, but i think he needs the damn passive shield.

But he could definitely lose the shield reset on his ult, windwall spawning inside him and he STILL seems to have the ult/tower safety thing where his ult tries to position him as optimally as possible to avoid towershots every now and then.

I mean his 3Q-R-AA already kills squishies in the lategame, doesnt need to give him more than that when he can ult of a teammate from miles away.

Hells seju was gutted over over because she was too powerful in coordinated play so yas could take a hit x)

hhaavviikkJan 27, 201915 votes

doesn't matter how strong or weak yasuo is I will ban him so long as he has that windwall, blocks the fun out of the effin game, I can go 5/0/0 against the enemy yasuo and I still would hate my time playing because he isn't fun to play against, he's obnoxious to play against, all it takes is a random windwall in a team fight to screw me over entirely and tilt me off of the face of the god damn earth

hi im unreformedJan 27, 201910 votes

pop the shield with 1 aa
go around wind shield, it's not hard and also lasers go through wind shield
as if a competent yas is going to use all 6 dashes LOL
literally his only ranged except for nado
u answered ur own r-word question
0 CDR means he won't be able to effectively use his combo

you are crying like an injured faun. stop.

Horse GrenadesJan 27, 201910 votes

Like an injured goat god? Why are all your posts filled with such negativity and insults? If you disagree, just disagree, no need to be simultaneously condescending. I’ve been guilty of it as well but it makes the boards a shitty place so I’m trying to “reform.”

hi im unreformedJan 27, 20195 votes

[{quoted}](name=ApocaIypse Meow,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zMAYIgR1,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2019-01-27T10:22:08.210+0000)

Like an injured goat god? Why are all your posts filled with such negativity and insults? If you disagree, just disagree, no need to be simultaneously condescending. I’ve been guilty of it as well but it makes the boards a shitty place so I’m trying to “reform.”

because the entire boards is a joke. why would i take this seriously when anti-yasuo threads has been repeated hundreds of times? if you're going to post something, post something interesting. also, not a fan of circle jerking.

Horse GrenadesJan 27, 20197 votes

What does “taking it seriously “ and “not being a dick” have to do with each other?

Hundreds, probably thousands TBH, might indicate that the community thinks the champions kit is overloaded or at least “anti-fun”. Regardless, am opinion you don’t agree with doesn’t mean you have to be unkind.

HopeStartsWithUJan 27, 20194 votes

I really don't approve his attidute but did you read the OPs thread? He listed every ability of Yasuo and doomed him "op" with those descriptions. Yasuo doesn't even have a 50% winrate at plat+ and he made Yasuo look like Irelias rework. This entire post is just a bad bad joke. There IS a reason why the majority of Yasuo hate posts are being ignored by Riot. You can like it or not, if people won't do constructive threads Riot will not listen (at least not these boards)

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/yasuo

Horse GrenadesJan 27, 20193 votes

But I’m not arguing OP is right. I’m arguing being negative and insulting while adding nothing of value to the discussion is bad.

HopeStartsWithUJan 27, 20191 votes

That's why I said I don't approve his attidute. I agree with you that being toxic isn't the right thing but I also agree with the other guy that this thread is just wrong in every possible way. It can't be taken seriously the way it is. You can't add some value to a valueless thread. Usually you would only get downvoted in circlejerk posts like this. Facts doesn't matter. Feelings does. There were several Riotler approaching threads like this and calling them out on a lot of BS but they stopped since it's not worth it.

hi im unreformedJan 28, 20192 votes

{quoted}

That's why I said I don't approve his attidute. I agree with you that being toxic isn't the right thing but I also agree with the other guy that this thread is just wrong in every possible way. It can't be taken seriously the way it is. You can't add some value to a valueless thread. Usually you would only get downvoted in circlejerk posts like this. Facts doesn't matter. Feelings does. There were several Riotler approaching threads like this and calling them out on a lot of BS but they stopped since it's not worth it.

no use talking to delusional people. i also saw that you posted a more detailed list of what i had on my bullet point list. same exact points, except yours is tdlr. you were saying very sound, logical things -- yet you still got downvoted. this is the degenerate community the boards has turned into.

shockprimexJan 27, 20193 votes

I also disagree with his attitude with people but if i said: "Yasuo is a balanced champion" i'm gonna get mass downvoted, get called a noob, and probably a couple of other mean things. But you wouldn't say anything at all right? Just gonna downvote and move on ignoring all the mean comments. You can't deny that people are rude to others who disagree politely in here because it happens all the time.

HopeStartsWithUJan 27, 20194 votes

It's pretty sad because the good posts just disappear under those hate posts. I can understand why Yasuo is obnoxious and frustrating but people just exaggerate the way they make posts and then "attempt" to discuss just to mass downvote you when you disagree with them.

KarfussJan 27, 20199 votes

They need to fix his windwall emanating behind him. That's the only thing Yasuo needs.

The window for him to react with his wall is far too long, and allows Yasuo to 'block' projectiles that are already through his wall and practically already through him.

I'm also in favour of removing its scaling width, so It either becomes a reaction button for Yasuo or Yasuo uses it defensively to protect his ADC/Mage. It shouldn't be zoning the enemy mage/ADC outside of a fight whenever used, although this is only a minor gripe. He's a duelist, not a support.

Tahminatrix Jan 27, 20198 votes

crit damage instead of bonus armor pen on r?? Now he kills adcs in 2 autos instead of 3.... lol jk.

But in all seriousness, I think taking away his shield wont do any good, its his ability to quickly go from one person to the next killing everyone with high mobility that is his problem, his shield I find to be the least toxic thing because its the only reward he gets from playing well that isn't more damage.

AshenvallJan 27, 20198 votes

You forgot :

untargettable while in ultimate
short cooldown ultimate
stupid runes build
tanky build with damage ( impossibility to kill him while he is going to kill you more and more)

SucctionJan 27, 201915 votes

Although I agree with the main post and do hate Yasuo very much...

He's most certainly not untargetable during his ultimate.

KVbqbFsC8eJan 27, 20197 votes

I've never understood why his ult magically moves him outside of turret range.

LeetriJan 28, 20192 votes

Probably cause it's already very conditional, players can't control where he ends up and it locks you in place for a while. It's the only ultimate with all those drawbacks that I can think of.

FlameHalbrdOkidoJan 28, 20197 votes

oh hi ill just drop this here

a list of all the rules that Yasuo breaks

Flow shield Rule Breaks: isn't situational, once charged it persists until procc'd, it doesn't have a CD, its his 1st of 2 dmg negation abilities, once dmg'd it doesn't act like a normal shield; damage doesn't consume the shield HP, the shield will continue to block the same amount of damage for 1 sec no matter how many instances of damage are applied within that time meaning u can't poke it down.

Rule Breaks: 3rd cast knocks up at close range, it doesn't stop the knock up at the 1st champion hit

Rule Breaks: as a full on dmg negation ability it lasts too long. Starts blocking projectiles on-cast (despite not being fully formed) Additionally his DPS is not required to drop very much as long as its active.

Rule Breaks: extented ability cast mobility isn't limited to charges or killing units

Rule Breaks: instantly grants fully charged flow shield, applies Suspension to enemies except its NOT reducible by Tenacity or any other crowd control reduction such as Cleanse. He CANNOT be Knocked down while in his Ult animation (unsure on other CC, but i think he's immune for the duration). For the next 15 seconds Yasuo's crits gains 50% bonus Armor Pen, on any units not just the ones hit by the ultimate. Last Breath's area of effect when suspending enemies increases per rank, but this ISN'T stated anywhere except the wiki. Last Breath will place Yasuo behind his main target. If however he blinks to an enemy close to an enemy turret, Last Breath will attempt positioning him outside the turret range. Yasuo benefits the same from his ultimate whether cast from his own knock up or allies.

one or two or maybe even three might be ok, but Yasuo has too many.

3TWarriorJan 28, 20191 votes

I would argue against Q and W. Janna exists and is more dangerous than his Q and quite a few instances of crowd control are able to hit everything in a line or in multiple instances

W: the issue lies that he can protect more than himself with "all or nothing" value to it. Nami ult coming? it's gone if it touches a single pixel

FlameHalbrdOkidoJan 28, 20192 votes

{quoted}

I would argue against Q and W. Janna exists and is more dangerous than his Q and quite a few instances of crowd control are able to hit everything in a line or in multiple instances

The difference is that Yasuo is a skirmisher champion with lots of damage not a support, additionally other Skirmishers CC is limited to relatively small area b/c they are meant to take out targets near them, if they DO have hard CC its usually reserved for a single target, because again they are designed for 1v1s and to take out nearby targets. Yasuo's CC DWARFS other skirmisher's CC not only because its a knock up but because it covers SO much more area and it CCs everyone it touches rather than 1) only the 1st target hit or 2) only in a smallish radius around him. I have reasons for why these are rule breaks

Q - Reasoning: Riot has stated b4 that they don't like it when melee champions can be extremely sticky and unload their all their damage within melee distance as it can create toxic static gameplay and can be overbearing. its better if the melee champion has to create some distance for more dynamic gameplay. Yasuo being able to knock targets up in melee range with normal Q3 goes against this. Few can skillfully outplay a melee range Q as Yasuo AA's and builds Q stacks up in a 1v1 melee fight. Using E->3Q is more fair because he only knocks up the targets at the end of the dash which is a set distance so it can be outplayed. Additionally Skirmishers are supposed to have a certain lack of target access in that getting to a target in the back line that is out of a certain range shouldn't be as easy as clicking a button, but the 3rd Q as a champion pass through skillshot that knock up all units it hits, makes target access extremely easy for Yasuo. His 3rd Q FAR out ranges ALL other Skirmisher abilities only matched by Riven's R recast, plus it allows him to jump onto his chosen target with R much easier than other Skirmishers can.

W: the issue lies that he can protect more than himself with "all or nothing" value to it. Nami ult coming? it's gone if it touches a single pixel

W - Reasoning: most other champions like Yas have damage negation ability that only last a short amount of time, its duration needs to be shortened or more requirements are needed, or make Yasuo pay for it more. Yasuo isn't a tank. This isn't his worst rule break. Additional other Skirmisher's DPS drops while their defensive ability is active. Yasuo can throw up a wall and keep on truckin.

See i really dont care about EACH one of these rules breaks on their own. Yas can negate an ENTIRE TEAMS worth of abilities to protect his team? Ok fine i can deal with that, becuase thats the nature of this game. It would b 2 difficult to code abilities to break in half if needed.

The issue comes when u add all of them together. Riot needs to pick 1-3 of the rule breaks and thats it no more than 1-3, cause no one else breaks that many rules.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/zaApj34x-ban-rate-shows-something-is-unhealthy-for-the-gamechamp-not-how-powerful-they-are?comment=0003000000000000

kayochanJan 27, 20195 votes

Personally for me it's his windwall....It needs to be smaller and the duration needs to be shorter. He benefits way too much from it. It should ONLY block things coming in FRONT. Not the sides, not from behind. Windwall's hitbox needs actually match what it looks like, becasue even coming to the side of it (damn near behind yasuo at this point) it STILL blocks projectiles.

Critmaster GarenJan 27, 20194 votes

the only mechanic that i think should be removed from his kit is the safety net that puts him outside turret range, when he ults an enemy under his turret.

everything else is fine in concept. maybe the double crit passive needs to be reworked a bit to smooth out his power curve and he scales just a bit more linear and he doesnt just have one single big spike and is full build off 2 items.

TwitchInMyPantsJan 27, 20194 votes

You get downvoted for this one but you're right

And this isn't me saying it because I hate Yasuo, he's frankly easy to deal with if he doesn't get a lead. But once he does he's unstoppable. He doesn't need both double crit chance and the shield in the same kit. If they remove something, guess what, Riot is capable of making Yasuo a linear champion who actually has an early game instead of just a champion that's either useless or 1v5s. I don't mind champions being better early or late game, but every time I've used Yasuo I feel like I'm playing half a champion early game to suddenly feeling like I have the power of 2+ champions.

Other champions like Yi or Tryndamere are able to do this kind of thing, but they're limited to basic movement and one dash. Yasuo has way better defensive mechanics, more dashing, and hard cc even if he doesn't have innate sustain. He also powerspikes waaaaay harder. Its not healthy for the game, but its something Riot likely will never change because Yasuo is a favorite champion and reworking him the wrong way would get them bashed to hell and back.

Crescent DuskJan 27, 20193 votes

Went as Talon vs. Yasuo. Maxed Q since he can just Windwall Rake. Only moment I could almost kill him was lv2-3 and his dash spam made sure he could freely disengage and just recharge his shield.

Meanwhile he can dash on my Talon with conqueror, Q me, right click DPS me as his shield wears off from my auto before I Q him, and between his Q and autos he does far more damage than I ever will.

I make him blow his wind wall at 6 while he's playing aggressive before I re-engae with full ult, doesn't matter because a guy with conquerors and Q knock up into an ult with shield from both dash and ult just dumpsters you anyways.

Yasuo is strong early, mid, and late. He's a team fight monster and only suffers as a duelist against bruisers. He craps on assassins, he craps on mages, he craps on adc's and supports and most junglers.

Conqueror on him is just disgusting.

The wind wall is fine. The quick recharge rate of his shield is not.

This guy has virtually a malzahar passive without the CC immunity on a far lower recharge while having boundless mobility and some of the most disgusting sustained damage.

AnomanderJan 27, 20193 votes

I am of the mind that his shield needs to be changed. Maybe make it create a shield on knocking up a champion scaling with number of champions knocked up. This would give him a way to trade but also give people a way of poking him down.

Ionian VulpixJan 28, 20193 votes

I hate Yasuo too, but I feel like his Shield is the least toxic thing in his kit. A lot of skirmishers have some kind of defensive steroid (Irelia's W, Riven's E) and Yasuo's isn't on demand like theirs is. Not saying he isn't overloaded, but the shield is relatively healthy compared to everything else in his kit.

StrawberrycocoaFeb 1, 20192 votes

He's money bait, that's why.

Flashy power fantasy weeb trope that sells skins and gets people cheering when he does a "sick play" on streams and tournaments. Yasuo sells product, so he gets to keep his overloaded kit until that stops being the case.

dnsupFeb 1, 20191 votes

{quoted}

He's money bait, that's why.

Flashy power fantasy weeb trope that sells skins and gets people cheering when he does a "sick play" on streams and tournaments. Yasuo sells product, so he gets to keep his overloaded kit until that stops being the case.

Maybe a good call. I tend to "go there" on most questions, except questions about individual champions. (Probably the reason I don't is that I'm not really part of the audience for streams, etc.; but I have heard that that is Riot's safest source of revenue.)

SaezioJan 28, 20191 votes

If he is so faceroll easy why don't you go try him past plat where people are not braindead and actually know how to realise trading patterns. Yasuo can only be strong if he faces people that are trash and don't destroy him early. Especially if you play vs yas mid, pick irelia and tell me who wins. Or aatrox, urgot, darius, riven, any fucking champ can destroy him, you can even go AP bruiser nasus and beat him. Just stop forgetting he has Windwall as a squishy mage. If you can't keep a 20 sec CD in your head thats 100% on you.