Seriously, why is Thresh's Q allowed to be fundamentally different from every other skillshot?

Z Statistic··36 votes·3,465 views

The direction of the windup is whatever he was facing when cast. That is completely independent of the projectile direction. He can literally be going in one direction and hook in that direction, only to send the Q flying in the exact opposite direction.

I'm all for mind games, but the cast animation is false information. To illustrate the problem, here is a more extreme example:

Let's say Leblanc get an update for her passive. You can now control it like a second unit; you can move it and make it cast spells in addition to autos. The tradeoff is that it still doesn't deal damage and it's E doesn't root.

Situation: An enemy Leblanc W's over the wall. You have no idea if she's real or not. It manages to hit E on you. Do you flash to break the chain? "But you just check her items!" Nah, this now get changed. There is now no way to tell which is real and which is fake other than trying to look at patterns of movement over a period of time (the real one will most likely be more guarded).

This is the same kind of problem with Thresh's Q cast. At the very least, it gives you no information other than it's being cast. If you don't know that Thresh's Q behaves differently from pretty much every other skillshot in the game, then this is false information.

40 Comments

D3m37r117 votes

Hmm the enemy thresh is winding up his hook. I wonder if he will throw it behind him where there is nothing or at me who is standing right infront of him with no minions between us. Wow this is so unclear. I'm gonna wing it and assume it's going behind him.

Tsen2 votes

Of course he'll aim it behind him and then watch the unsuspecting soul in front flash out of fear.

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

DrCyanide1 votes

He couldn't possibly be aiming at my support, who's got equally few minions in front of them...

Wimbledofy14 votes

Thresh is also one of the only champs that has a wind up before the skill shot is cast. All other champions cast nearly instantly. If it showed the direction it was aiming as soon as he started to cast it would be almost impossible to land hooks unless you are in a bush.

Only Play Darius14 votes

CertainlyT stated that this was intentional and for thematic cohesiveness. Thresh is a dread spirit and by making the skillshot hard to predict, he causes stress and torment in his potential victims.

DoctorFunguy5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zEZRI4L1,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2016-03-24T05:06:06.124+0000)

CertainlyT stated that this was intentional and for thematic cohesiveness. Thresh is a dread spirit and by making the skillshot hard to predict, he causes stress and torment in his potential victims.

Yeah because that's what this game needs. More cancerous shit that nobody likes to play against.

Only Play Darius2 votes

His words not mine. I still would rather lane against a Thresh hook than one from Blitzcrank/Nautilus/Darius

Blitzidious2 votes

It works very well too. I'll give it to CertainlyT, I enjoy playing against and with a Thresh, no matter what. He seems to be extremely balanced as well.

Jhin UItd JFK12 votes

Comparing Thresh's hook windup to a complete unfair rework of LeBlanc's passive doesn't work...

It's like trying to compare an apple to broccoli. Sure you can eat(Use) them but that doesn't mean they're both fruits(Same type of skills)

Lovely Pants9 votes

In isolation, I don't really see the issue with how this ability generates uncertainty. There's a slight burden of knowledge involved, but one you should learn pretty quickly after receiving it once or twice.

Most champions have some form of this dance they can do between telegraphing intentions and then tricking an opponent. Usually they just move in one direction and try to throw you off with their instantaneously cast leading skillshot from an odd angle or get close enough to you that it forces you to play your hand to avoid them without them actually needing to throw the skillshot. Thresh's ability to misdirect while casting is a strength given to an ability which has a weaknesses built into it. It already let's you prepare more decisively when you need to use escape options available to you.

If you're simply arguing for the clarity of being able to play around what an ability does while in the process of seeing it for the first time, it's really no worse than understanding things like a Vel'Koz Q or a Bard Q which completely change the relationship you need to have with your minions and such. There are plenty of champions that bend or break the rules of how things generally work for some intended benefit.

For the record, the strength of misdirection after casting isn't unique to Thresh's hook either.

Janna's Howling Gale lets me threaten a sizable area for 3 seconds after I cast it, with the enemy having no displayed projection about where it is safe to stand until I choose to release it.

ZT Xperimentor6 votes

It has the longest windup cast of nearly every skillshot in the game, it should be obvious you're supposed to be on your toes and ready to dodge.

darkmatchwaldo5 votes

His body just isn't necessarily pointing in the same direction his hook is going. It's what allows you madlife your hooks and make predictions without very clearly telling you where it's going to go. I don't see the big deal. Your example is basically just a Shaco ult. A clone that's impossible to distinguish from besides studying the behavior of it? Why not start a QQ thread about that too?

Meserion4 votes

you're right it should be telegraphed, as in you should have an indicator where it is generally headed. Say, he winds up and will always throw in the opposite direction of the windup, that way people are getting screwed because thresh "snake-eyed" the hook.

Akenero16 votes

you realize it's a 1 second delay, right?

AND on top of that, it collides with minions.

It's able to be strong because of it's cast time, cooldown, and the fact it hits minions, I NEVER have trouble telling where he's throwing the hook.

Blitzidious1 votes

People just need to get gud with the mind games. Kek

theArtifacts3 votes

I cant say I've ever found this to be an issue.

Also - Riot's goal is to have each champ feel unique. If his skillshot was the same as every other skill shot they would not be accomplishing their goals very well would they?

Droogzy1 votes

{quoted}

I cant say I've ever found this to be an issue.

Also - Riot's goal is to have each champ feel unique. If his skillshot was the same as every other skill shot they would not be accomplishing their goals very well would they?

It's not so much about uniqueness as its more about consistency. Riot has made it clear they value clarity. The hook not only not indicating the direction it is flying in when its in the wind-up cast, but falsely showing an improper direction is a pretty clear contradiction to the idea of clarity in the game.

Personally, I wouldn't mind having the windup take less time, or the speed of the hook increased if you could at least gauge what direction it is flying in.

Hayaishi23 votes

It has a lot of counterplay and the unpredictability makes the ability actually good.

1000angrybees3 votes

I much more have a problem with the magnetizing aspect of the hook than its semi-unpredictability.

Spoofghoul3 votes

FYI He is most likely throwing the hook in your direction.

That being said the easy way to dodge is to walk in an angle towards thresh So not walking back and to the side, not walking sideways, no, walking towards Thresh and sideways. Hope this helps.

SamSchoolsU1 votes

I'm don't understand why you would walk towards him and sideways rather than away from him and sideways; walking towards him at all would reduce the time it takes for the hook to reach you, giving you less time for sideways movement and therefore less of a chance that you will get out of the way in time.

Spoofghoul1 votes

because the skillshot get wider the further it travels

im not saying walk 10 miles towards him bot dodging towards him means the hitbox is smalles so its easier to not get hooked

TallyZrg3 votes

I see the point you are trying to make, but the example with LeBlanc that you gave is really bad.

It is confusing, hard to follow, and completely abstract and unrelated.

Also to add clarity the reason you cant determine which direction threshs Q will go is because it would be too easy to dodge if you could.

The trade off for not knowing which direction his hook will go is a slower animation (when compared to blitz or nautilus) so that you can avoid it with good reflexes. The ability is in a good spot right now and any change will make thresh OP or almost unplayable.

Magnum Mack3 votes

This seems rather asinine. I often play Morgana against Thresh and Blitz hooks for her E. If I see a window of opportunity for them to hook my adc or myself, I have my E ready. Thresh is a tad easier for me than blitz because of the windup. It's not like I need to look where he's pointed. I saw a windup animation and there's a clear avenue of attack for him. He could be looking the opposite direction and I'd know where he wants to place that hook. It's not hard to predict what he wants.

What you're saying is that it's unfair for him not to telegraph twice. Once is the windup, which should make his intention clear, and once again to know where it is going, which you should ALREADY know because it's a Thresh hook. Here's a tip, it probably wants the ADC or the squishy support. If he has clear line of sight on BOTH then you both fucked up for leaving yourselves that open with an easy to avoid telegraphed skillshot that is ruined by morgana, Lucian, graves, sivir, sona E, Nami passive, ezreal, and somewhat Braum's shield. Thresh's big core power isn't from his hook itself like Blitz: It's the lantern.

What, Thresh missed the hook and hit a minion next to you? Don't relax. He can toss that lantern to the adc, jump to that hooked minion next to you, ult, flay you into it for the slow and now the adc is there and both of them have a shield on. He may have missed his intended target, but the result is the same. He was able to CC you and get his ADC the engage in favorable conditions. He's a shock and awe champ. Even on a poor hook he can get in and get shit going.

"But Mister Mack, that sounds so OP. Why would we let a broken champ like that exist?" So why is he not bitched about more? Because he has a very high skill ceiling. Thresh's potential is rarely fully actualized. Sometimes, people play thresh because they saw Madlife or Remilia and think that's just how Thresh is and that by picking him you've unlocked god/win mode. It isn't. That's how Thresh is when you know how to play him at a supremely high level against people who just aren't prepared for that level of performance on him. I rarely and afraid of Thresh because of that skill ceiling on him, however having said that I am probably likely to get completely fucked by a God-Thresh in the future because I expect so little from the majority of Thresh's I see.

Bonipherus1 votes

+1 because his hook lacks sufficient clarity which rito claims they actually care about

Mister Modesty1 votes

That isn't how Thresh works. He turns after the skillshot has been cast. You can cast the hook in any direction. At least that's how it is USING Thresh..

Profirix1 votes

I have also seen many hooks hit a target that very clearly should not have hit because it was blocked by some other unit. I think personally that there are some mechanical issues with Thresh that need to be addressed. I may not be a diamond-master level player, but there are many-a-hooks that should NOT have landed that did.

Denimist1 votes

Someone got mad by a madlife hook i see... Seriously tho, the windup ,block by mi ions and the slow missle speed makes up for that.thresh needs to predict where you will be to hook you, and you need to predict where he will hook to dodge it.

Bisaknosp1 votes

the hitbox is retarded once i had a game where the hook clearly PASSED BY and suddenly it 'teleports' to me and i got hooked wtf they should fix this shit honestly

DrNova1 votes

Stupid thread. "Clarity" is a bogus argument, since its intended and makes his skill unique.

If they changed it they would remove the windup, and it would be like every other skillshot and more boring.

Besides what kind of knucklehead doesn't know it's coming at him. If he lands a hook, he was good and or you were bad.

Stop making threads about stupid things please.

MrWasjig1 votes

So basically this thread reads: "I can't dodge a highly telegraphed skillshot so I'm going complain about it"

morris11 votes

But his hook takes 10 years longer to cast than Blitzcrank's hook, so if Blitz had the same issue what would you say?

The Deckowner1 votes

it has a wind up, very long wind up. if it faces wherever he actually aim then it will be way too easy to dodge.

DEmperor951 votes

I believe that all skillshots in the game behave exactly the same way. The only difference is that Thresh's Q has a long windup unlike almost all other skillshots. This makes it easy to observe this behavior of skillshots in the game during the windup.

Example: Varus Q and Xerath Q. They can have a long wind-up, but you can shoot them in any direction regardless of the direction you're facing at that moment.

Meurtrierr1 votes

LMAO!!! l2p

Man, it takes for ever for thresh q's animation to end.

Get guud

PDE5 Inhib1 votes

The only thing wrong with Thresh's Q is the hitbox not matching it.

Drakylon1 votes

Sometimes that "uncertainty" starts to feel like dumb luck, especially at lower levels and at decent range. There's only a small range that you can move before the hook collides with you. In that time, Thresh could be throwing it at any angle, most likely within your range of movement. To play against it, you need to "predict" (read: guess) which direction Thresh throws the hook, then run directly opposite of that direction, then hope you "predicted" (read: guessed) correctly.

Guesswork = skill, apparently.

Iqqi1 votes

I seriously doubt this was intentional. I expect Riot failed when coding the animation as realistically Thresh does not have eyes on the back of his head and he certainly cant throw a hook through himself.

Again I think it was a design mistake that Riot made and in their opinion "it turned out to be an ok accident".

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