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2 changes that would make Sion 'good' again.

Melledoneus··64 votes·9,529 views

When I say 'good,' I mean that most players can play him and not have to put in more effort than other top laners to do the same thing. It takes a lot of effort to land Sion's abilities in a meta full of mobile top laners, and the fact that he starts with a lower health pool and scales lower than most indicates that he needs to farm up and rack up a pretty good KDA in order to stay relevent. But personally, here are the two changes I think would make him much less strenuous to get results with:

#1. Give Glory in Death/Death Surge a slow resistance/removal. It's the most demoralizing thing when you position yourself well into the enemy team, set up a good fight, and are prepared to die then maul on that low HP ADC when somebody just slows you and walks away, not giving a care about your passive. Then, you'd rather just attack minions because slows.

Giving Glory in Death slow resistance upon activation would allow Sion to create better pressure in fights and pick up kills on unwary and unsuspecting opponents who don't respect his passive form. Not to mention it would reward good Sion players for positioning well so that the enemy team needs to use hard CC to peel you away.

On the other hand, giving Death Surge a slow removal, similar to Garen's Q, would allow Sion to pursue targets who foolishly throw out their slows early on, and again rewards good Sion players for saving Death Surge until after.

#2. Allow Sion to detonate Soul Furnace after 2 seconds. While many have been clamoring for this, it's not as overrated as some are led to believe. Sion's W currently acts as a mediocre shield that needs to be activated BEFORE combat to use effectively, which is counter-intuitive in itself. Not to mention that in this meta, every top laner and their mother can shred through the shield before Sion gets a chance to detonate it to retaliate.

Allowing Sion to detonate his shield one second earlier has HUGE impacts on gameplay, as he can actually make the decision between mitigating more damage or maximizing his own. At the moment, Sion players don't really have a choice in the matter, and that's simply not fair.

Alright, everyone. This is my two cents. If you don't agree, don't just downvote and walk away! Come tell us why you disagree in the comments, this is a board for discussion after all! Additionally, if any of you have any other ideas to help Sion with small fixes, feel free to share!

130 Comments

Burnt Iron King28 votes

B...But... I don't want to be detonated.... T_T

Wheatloaf11 votes

You either get detonated, bitch-slapped into oblivion, or forgotten on the side of the lane. You've got it pretty tough, little buddy.

Ralanr18 votes

http://champion.gg/champion/Sion

Now I know winrate isn't everything, but he's doing fine in top. He's even number three in the top ten top laners. But I like to talk about my main, so let's do this.

I'm not a big fan of this constant desire to make his shield trigger at 2 seconds. It feels like people are wanting to have their cake and eat it. Now, as good as cake is, we need to watch our diet. As of now his shield can function as a sword or shield rather than a sword and shield. An ability that is both offensive and defensive at the same time feels more open to abuse. As it stands now, you can choose to charge it for wave clear, or choose to charge it to lessen the damage of your opponent from going all in.

I might not be making sense. Point is, his current W gives him multiple choices. When do I want to hurt you and when do I want to protect myself? Having a 2 second trigger nullifies this choice, making the ability less tactical. At least in my opinion.

Personally, I'd like them to change how his health goes down in his passive. People have pointed out that it drains faster with the more health you have, which makes it counter intuitive to being a infinitely health scaling tank.

Melledoneus6 votes

Actually, I looked into that. It actually scales with level, strangely enough. I think they need to lessen the decay a bit so he doesn't literally melt himself.

Ralanr1 votes

Really? That's even more weird.

Wheatloaf6 votes

Way back when, they changed it to a flat scaling value instead of a %, since he was decaying WAY too fast at higher health values. Various stats on items, champions, and masteries alike have changed since then, so it might be time for them to revisit that formula.

Ralanr2 votes

Why'd they change it in the first place?

Wheatloaf4 votes

A % max HP value meant that he decayed at the same rate even if he was full tank, which felt kind of sucky. Actual values were something like 0.5% + 0.4% per second. In its current state, it doesn't actually go down faster the more health you have (though the end decay-per-second value would definitely be higher). It might just feel like that due to the more aggressive positioning full tank Sion will take up, or just the numbers being too high for how much health Sion can usually get his hands on.

TotalJerk1 votes

Jungle Sion needs some love, though. He's currently the lowest playrate jungler that's even listed on Champion.gg. At this point you could almost say Sion isn't a jungler anymore.

Ralanr1 votes

As much as I like him in the jg, higher level stats do not lie. His jungle winrate is very bad. But how can they boost it without making his top winrate crazy?

kDrakari1 votes

Having the shield numbers in a place where Sion could use it to tank a camp's damage and still be able to detonate it before it breaks would make a HUGE difference to Sion jungle, and a much smaller difference to top. Unfortunately, I don't think there's a good window to put the shield numbers that would actually function without just being blatantly OP.

I think it would be better to just plan for having Jungle Sion max Q first while lane Sion maxes E first, then balance to encourage that so their early game capabilities would be more independent.

Sahn Uzal1 votes

E is the ability I max last.... summoner 31

Ralanr1 votes

Same. I max his W first though.

Sahn Uzal1 votes

If my lane oponent cant burst my shield I'll max Q, if they can W. If I want to look for TP roams, I'll max Q to shove the wave quickly. summoner 31

Ralanr1 votes

Most enemies in my experience can burst the shield.

Maxed shield plus Q is a very powerful waveclear combo.

Sahn Uzal1 votes

But what if 2 perks in W is enough? :P summoner 31

Ralanr1 votes

I love the W too much.

Sahn Uzal1 votes

I prefer W as well. But I feel like it's too weak atm summoner 31

el PepE hanDs 2 votes

your supposed to max e in lane on sion trust me i am master rank sion main

Eapenator1 votes

Hey,

I really like playing sion too, I used to play him alot at the start of season 6, and then stopped for a couple patches. Recently I am picking him up again in anticipation of the new legendary skin, however alot has changed in the top lane (zz'rot, keystone masteries, nerfs to items etc).

I am feeling kind of lost in terms of item choices and builds and most statistic sites online don't seem to have the optimal builds for him. Do you have a guide or something that i could look at :)

edit. Just adding to the reason why i feel lost, I used to rush iceborne gauntlet as my sole damage item (worked really well) but now with sunfire buffs, zz'rot, I don't think it's as good anymore. Also i used to take thunderlords top and it worked really well, and after nerfs to it, the only option is grasp.

el PepE hanDs 1 votes

add me on league ill answer anything you'd like

Eapenator1 votes

Ok :)

alfavhunter1 votes

{quoted}

Jungle Sion needs some love, though. He's currently the lowest playrate jungler that's even listed on Champion.gg. At this point you could almost say Sion isn't a jungler anymore.

Simple way to buff jungle Sion

Make his Q deal bonus damage to monsters (don't remember if it still does reduced damage)

This in itself would be a way to buff jungle Sion without harming lane sion in a noteable way

They can also make W take reduced damage from monsters, E can deal bonus damage to monsters, there's plenty of ways to tune it to work

bdoubleskyclan131 votes

Give his w a +15 health on large monster kills and you are fine. He Would be quite strong then, maybe even too strong.

alfavhunter1 votes

That could make lane Sion take smite and do jungle camps

Imagine starting gromp every game just for that 15 extra hp and doing it every time you push your lane

This issue was had with cinder hulk and top Sion taking it with smite just for the stacking HP

Ralanr1 votes

What if they buffed the minimum health gain to 5 from 2? That would increase his health stacking from small jungle creatures.

Though it would make his top lane stronger...maybe too strong.

DeathBurst3 votes

That would be incredibly OP for Top, no "maybe" about it ^^' I mean, you are proposing to increase his health stacking for top lane by 150%.

That being said, it's possible to have a different value for minions and small monsters, since some spells (Karma root or nidalee spear) have a different effect on all monsters, not only large ones. Then, 2 for minions, 5 for small monsters, 10 for large monsters. From a full jungle clear he would gain 30 more HP (10 small monsters in a full clear).

Spicy Rice2 votes

Here's my counter to that. Nasus gets +6 on large monster kills,but you don't see him taking smite to do large camps

alfavhunter1 votes

Of course not, this is a single target on kill from spell condition vs, just kill it for the bonus

Nasus has to get the kill with W to get his bonus, meaning he can't instantly clear a wave and get the benefit from all of the minions for his Q

Sion however can just aoe then down and get full benefit, walk out of lane get a camp and come back before the next minion wave arrives

The difference in Sion and nasus stacking (not including damage vs hp) is Sion can just kill the targets, nasus has to kill it with Q

Jungle Lux God1 votes

I personally like the idea of making his W take reduced damage from jungle monsters. It's normally rather hard to use Sion's shield to clear in the jungle because you need to cast his W before starting the camp such that it tanks as much damage as possible and you can still detonate it, and making his W take reduced damage from monsters could make that much easier.

Chaos Milk Tea8 votes

Sion doesn't need more damage, he's already an incredibly strong lane bully. He needs to function more effeciently in team fights. He gets stunned out of good axe chops way too easily. I've raised the axes and gotten knocked out of it enough times in a row to do absolutely nothing in a team fight until everyone was already dead. >:/

Modmar5 votes

Sion is in a good spot right now. He just pushes top hard and ults mid for easy gank if your mid is losing. I agree with the Passive change, but they would probably have to lower it's damage since he does so much damage with it. Soul Furnace would be nice but late game the wait isn't much. Early would be good but then might make his later too strong since his shield explosion does a lot of damage. So yeah, his 1-6 is kinda weak but after that he does a lot, even in his current state. His teamfighting is just a bit weak unless you manage to land a 5man Q

EDIT: Yeah, McAnnex has it spot on. His passive HP gain from shield makes up for his low scaling very well.

4th Chiming Lamb5 votes

As someone who plays Sion a fair bit, I can tell you that he's pretty fine at the moment. He's weak against mobility as counterplay, and has abnormally high ratios, so building one damage item then transitioning into pure tank is something that I tend to do, and it works a lot better than pure damage Sion.

McAnnex4 votes

He has one of the best win rates in his main role and is at a very strong point right now.... I would like these changes because I like Sion, but they aren't really needed I think. They would make him too strong IMO. EDIT: His base and HP scaling numbers are low because he has one of the highest HP/5 regen rates and his passive permanent HP gains more than make up for it. :)

Melledoneus3 votes

You have a very good point about his win rate. But these are simply changes that make his passive feel like less of a dead weight when against something like Thresh who can just press E and walk away. And as for his W, detonating it sooner or not wouldn't really determine strength as much, but just help him early in the laning phase. Being a tank that can engage for his carries to follow up and having a dedicated, smaller playerbase, he's naturally going to have a higher winrate at the moment. But as somebody who plays top lane tanks, he feels... mediocre at times when he should be strong.

What do you think specifically about the idea for his passive? Of course, some numbers can be tweaked, but he basically becomes a glass cannon with no ammo during his passive, because it becomes nearly impossible to hit people to begin with.

DrNova2 votes

{quoted}

He has one of the best win rates in his main role and is at a very strong point right now.... I would like these changes because I like Sion, but they aren't really needed I think. They would make him too strong IMO. EDIT: His base and HP scaling numbers are low because he has one of the highest HP/5 regen rates and his passive permanent HP gains more than make up for it. :)

His passive doesn't make up for his low initial health untill late game if you get there.

And I wonder why the fuck they would gibe him a health stacking passive, implying he is supposed to be a high health champ, if you don't even get to average health till mid game. Its silly he gets punished for a strength by negating that strength and making him put in a bunch of extra work to even come up to par, and that's even ignoring the fact that the stage of the game where he has a heavy amount of health is often never even reached.

Cloud2734 votes

He currently has a 53% win rate. He's in the top 10 for best champions ATM. Sion is fine. I still miss old Sion though.

http://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.winPercent&order=descend

Shac Norris4 votes

#makesiongreatagain

NMR19864 votes

I play a lot of Sion... and if we are being real we should be crossing our fingers he doesn't get nerfed rather than asking for buffs. He is very strong right now.

Pandemic Punch2 votes

^ What he said. I also play a lot of Sion. He is one of those champions that don't have many counters. He is in a pretty darn good spot right now.

Spoofghoul2 votes

Hah a Sion discussion thread just wanted to start one and then i see this at thr front of the gameplay page well guess ill charge in and go rant here then.

The shield First, i disagree on the shield part. not because i hate it i mean im a sion main i want him to be god yet at the same time i dont really want that because everyone and their mother will play him and hed be nerfed more. No my problem with it is that given time you build up enough resistances and health to keep it alive for at least 2 seconds which brings the problem of removing decision making. You get to block damage and detonate most of the time without really thinking things through. And thats a huge part of Sions gameplay. You have to be tactical about how you use your abilities and when to use them.

Now i do agree the shield right now is a tad lackluster. It isnt rewarding enough vs the risk from using it. Risk vs reward blabla anyway what i wanted to say is i would chnage it diferently.

What if the shield would gain extra bonus damage depending on how much shield is left also scaling with shields from allies/items Meaning if i use my sield which gives 500 and after 3 seconds my opponent has hit it once aand there is 250 shield left it would deal bonus damage, let say it deals 50% of whatever shield is left at bonus damage then in this case it would deal an extra 125 damage on top of its current damage. If Janna had also shielded me for an extra 200 i would have 450 shield left and would deal 225 bonus damage.

Just seemed more interesting to me, would give Sion more synergy with other champions and rewards him more for keeping that shield up during combat.

My buff idea Also i had a different idea for a Sion buff which sounded awesome in my mind at least. Like every Sion players knows about this attack on towers where he slams his shoulder into the tower whilst putting his weight behind the attack. But its the only time he uses that attack animation. And it looks pretty brutal considering he has this shoulder gaurd with these massive spikes on them^^

What if Sion would have a different use for that ''attack'' aswell. What if he uses that attack once every 6 attacks reduced by 1 for each rank in ultimate. So once every 6 atatcks pre level 6 and at level 16 once every 3 attacks. The attack would deal bonus physical damage equal to 3% of Sions maximum health and apply a bleed effect for 2 seconds dealing 50% of his bonus armor and magic resist as physical damage over 2 seconds ticking every half second. When the attack triggers on the opponent he is stunned for 0,1 second. Can't happen more then once on the same target every 3 seconds.

Ok These are my Sion idea's A bit different from the usual revert the shield nerf idea's I figured why not use my imagination to come up with some other idea's using some of Sions existing abilities/animations and using these. Anyway im really curious what people think about my enhanced attack and boosted shield idea's

My 3 cents

TheHowester1 votes

I was thinking of an idea that would give his autos more viability, like a cleave passive that the CD is reduced through either attacking or taking damage. I like you idea.

Ralanr1 votes

I think increasing his base attack speed would help make his autos be more useful honestly.

But then again, I've seen the power of sated devourer Sion.

TheHowester1 votes

I dont know... his autos just don't feel like they have "OOMPH", so even if Riot did that, it just look faster.

Now I want to try devourer Sion...

Ralanr1 votes

Stack tanky on hit items. You won't be a tank, more of a CC heavy juggernaut.

TheHowester1 votes

Sounds interesting... I should experiment with this sometime.

So items like Guisnoo's, Wit's end, etc like those? I dont know many on hit items anymore lol

Ralanr1 votes

Main three: Frozen mallet, Black cleaver, and titanic hydra.

Guinsio if you're fed and ahead, but I'd rather get a defensive item.

And boots. Boots are important.

TheHowester1 votes

ohhh, those items. Alright.

Ralanr1 votes

Tell me how it goes if you do try it.

TheHowester1 votes

I did, and boy its pretty fun. Im rather squishy though(probably due to the fact i rushed those items instead of building resistences first).

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