Let's Talk about Talon (and give him back a Healthy Silence!)

#Please consider this a WIP. Version 2 out Soon (TM)

Talon's power level just took a hit. Why? To paraphrase the patch notes,

It sucks to get 100-0'd while silenced, because you can't do anything about it.

That's another way of saying, he didn't have any counterplay. Which he didn't. When a champion has a point-and-click, instant silence coupled with a lot of burst, there's no way to respond. By the time the silence wears off, you're dead.

Unfortunately, removing the silence creates other problems for Talon - because he's a squishy melee, he needs a way to avoid taking damage or he simply won't be competitive. Akali has her shroud, Zed has his shadows and Q, Riven and Diana have their shield. Fiora has her passive and ult, Fizz has his troll pole, Yi and Shaco have their Q's... You get the picture. #Talon needs his silence back. But he can't have it like he had it before - because he IS an assassin, and if he can burst you while you're silenced, that's not healthy.

Now, read that again:

burst you while you're silenced

This is the key. Talon can't have an on-demand silence burst at the same time. But he can certainly have both in his kit.

Therefore, I propose the following changes:

#Q: Noxian Diplomacy

• New: If the target is marked, the mark is consumed, slowing the target by 9 / 13 / 17 / 21 / 25% for the bleed duration.

With a longer, lower-intensity slow, Talon will finally be able to make better use of his passive.

#W: Rake:

• New: Applies a Mark of Impending Doom which lasts for 4s
• Changed: Slows => If a target hit is marked, slows (same values as live)
  • Consumes AND re-applies the mark
• Skill shot actually takes skill: The cone is now narrower.
• An alternative is to change the mechanics of W. This comment has some excellent ideas.

An AOE, ranged slow, which doesn't make much sense on an assassin, was taking up a lot of Talon's power budget. Accordingly, it's now gone (well, except for when he ults - the mark doesn't last enough to be applied and popped with W), and in its place is a mechanic that gives talon options for what cc to use!

NOTE: This ability is where Talon gets his counterplay. If he can't hit this from a distance, he won't be able to use his silence.

#E: Cutthroat:

• New: If the target is marked, silences the target for .5 / .75 / 1 / 1.25 / 1.5 seconds

#R: Shadow Assault:

• New: Applies a Mark of Impending Doom to all enemies damaged.
• Come Closer: 500 Range ring => 450 range ring

During his ult, Talon will be able to apply both of his CC to whomever he wants. It gives him a little more of a spotlight. Range nerfed so it's harder for him to flash-ult and drop his full, uncounterable, combo on you.

######Note: I'm not a numbers guy. These numbers may have to be adjusted for balance. Likewise with the range and cooldown of his w

#So, what does this do for Talon?

1. He gains some counterplay, because he can't silence you unless he can get in range to use his w
   • To be explicit: The counterplay is, "Don't get in range of his w." He'll still be able to jump to you, but at least you'll be able to respond.
2. He retains his identity as the "Anti-assassin, assassin."

• This is because he has the kit of an assassing (good vs squishies), a silence (good vs casters), and is most effective when he can get relatively close before he engages (good vs melees). Squishy melee casters are pretty much all assassins (or melee carries, who occupy pretty much the same space right now. See Fiora).
• This is good both from a lore perspective (he kills several assassins sent after him) and a gameplay perspective (he occupies a unique space).

3. He has to make decisions.

• "Do I want to go for the easy combo, E->W->Q, which leaves me vulnerable to poke on my way out, or the hard combo, W->E->Q, which requires that I get in range, but also prevents my opponent from trading back?"
• W->E->Q should be more effective vs casters, and E->W->Q should be more effective vs autoattackers and better for all-ins
• Don't forget that E amplifies damage, so W-E-Q will do less total damage. If W-E-Q is doing too much damage (ie, more useful for all-ins than trading), Talon's damage could also be lowered, but his damage amplification from E increased, so if he uses his combo with the silence, his burst will be weaker.

---

Would this Talon retain the feel of the original? Would he be healthier to play against? Would he feel as satisfying to play as? What do you think?

In the interest of brevity, I'm going to stop here. I'll add clarification below this line as people say questions/comments/critique in the comments.

Silences are frustrating in the mid lane. Especially ones you cant dodge that are applied by engages, and followed up by massive burst. No, his silence NEEDED to be gone. Does he now heed a bit of a buff? Sure. But no silence, not on an assassin.

Old talon could walk within 700 range of you, silence you, and follow up with massive burst (remember, e amplifies damage).

This talon won't be able to just silence you, he'll have to hit his W first (currently 600 range, wide cone - if that's too easy to hit, it's easy enough to make the cone narrower or shorter so it's less reliable). However, that denies him a significant bit of damage, because his W damage isn't amplified by E.

The most important thing is definitely that you'll have a chance to dodge his w, and avoid the silence, though, by either staying out of range, or being a juke master.

There HAS to be a chance to dodge; HAS to be. A champion who instkills with no chance of escape is negative champion

There IS a chance to dodge - his W. Talon's ONLY reliable way of getting close to someone, where he can deal his damage, is his E. But if he uses his E to gapclose before he hits his w, he now has a 6-second window where he is unable to silence you.

What's the functional difference between jump-rake-ult and rake-jump-ult? Not much, maybe Talon spamming Rake more.

1. You can dodge rake.

• If rake is too hard to dodge, we can nerf its range, width, or travel time so it's easier to dodge. I've edited the OP to reflecte a nerfed width.

2. It's less damage, because rake is no longer getting the damage amplification from E. If talon wants maximum burst, he's going to have to forgo his silence. #MeaningfulChoices

It's never a case of "Cho'gath hit me with one ability, guess I'll just sit here and die now".

Perhaps a better comparison in this respect would be Ahri's charm, which has the damage, damage amplification, and HARD cc all on one skill, on a ranged champion.

Accordingly it's a hard skillshot to land. Talon's will be a little easier, because he won't have his rake's damage amplified, as I mentioned above, and because he's melee.

Edit: giving up on staying caught-up on everything important that's been discussed in this post. I'm just going to make a V2 of this thread later that incorporates all the discussion here.