DoTs can feel impactful if you show how much damage they WILL do as soon as they hit

Hyrum Graff·9/14/2015, 4:57:12 PM·825 votes·85,850 views

Riot has basically said they don't like DoTs because they lack clarity:

  • As the caster, it's hard to appreciate how much damage they do.
  • When hit by one, it's hard to tell how much damage it's going to do.

Both of these are NOT problems with DoT, they're problems with how we show DoT in game.

#The real problem is there is no visual indicator of how much TOTAL damage a DoT will do.

There's a really simple solution. When you get hit by a DoT, your health bar immediately shows how much damage you WILL take in a different color (kind of like Tahm's grey health shows how much shield you WILL get). Then this hp ticks down while the DoT runs. Here's a really quick mockup:

http://i.imgur.com/Tz9HvyU.png

######I know this particular example might not work well for color-blind people, but we can change the colors in color-blind mode.

2015.6.17 Edit

Since some people have been discussing things like "What if they get shielded during the DoT?", here's an alternative design that works better with shields:

http://i.imgur.com/yNghdzP.png

http://i.imgur.com/BfaHbXA.png

2016.07.03 Edit in Response to Riot Reinboom

[{quoted}](name=Riot Reinboom,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=i2xERtsd,comment-id=003b,timestamp=2015-09-15T04:40:20.853+0000)

I like these types of clarity gains. :3

I experimented with something akin to this (in a few different iterations) earlier in the year for different effects. We ran into some problems with it, namely along the lines of it feeling really bad when it was wrong. We have a lot of small adjustments that can make damage prediction not be accurate. Examples: Resistances can change a lot (like going in and out of Abyssal Range). This was especially bad when the dot types were mixed (e.g. true damage and magic damage). Penetration isn't consistent. It looked REALLY weird when interacting with shields.

-snip-

Getting accurate prediction is just a hurdle though. So this isn't a "we won't do it", but more like it was uniquely difficult enough that we just focused on something else for the time being.

Here's an idea that I believe addresses these concerns:

On hit:

https://i.imgur.com/LWyzkB9.png

As the DoT ticks down:

http://i.imgur.com/rfWO6RR.png

This solves the "prediction is inaccurate" problem in a different way. Instead of making prediction more accurate, it makes the display less precise. Take this example:

http://i.imgur.com/e5MMZKE.png

Is Kat going to die, or live with a sliver of health left afterwards?

She's going to live. There's 1 pixel of health bar left at the end.

Prediction doesn't need to be perfect; it just needs to be as good as the way you display that information. And perfect information is not needed to make DoTs feel impactful.

2017-10-27 edit

A strict wedge might make it hard to see shields if there's a long-running DoT. You could mitigate this by colorizing the top part, instead, or aligning the bottom of the wedge to 1/4 of the way up the hp bar, instead of all the way at the bottom.

356 Comments

ScreamPaste9/14/2015, 4:58:17 PM187 votes

This is a really good idea. +1

RiotRiot Reinboom9/15/2015, 4:40:20 AM144 votes

I like these types of clarity gains. :3

I experimented with something akin to this (in a few different iterations) earlier in the year for different effects. We ran into some problems with it, namely along the lines of it feeling really bad when it was wrong. We have a lot of small adjustments that can make damage prediction not be accurate. Examples: Resistances can change a lot (like going in and out of Abyssal Range). This was especially bad when the dot types were mixed (e.g. true damage and magic damage). Penetration isn't consistent. It looked REALLY weird when interacting with shields.

HotS does have a cool way of showing it. I also like Bloodborne's transparent health. Unfortunately, the damage model of these games is much simpler and thus could get away with something in a very "honest" way.

Getting accurate prediction is just a hurdle though. So this isn't a "we won't do it", but more like it was uniquely difficult enough that we just focused on something else for the time being.

7ha7guy7779/14/2015, 5:02:53 PM49 votes

I can just imagine people freaking out when their entire health bar turns orange when they step in Malzahar's pool late-game

Axxuka9/14/2015, 5:01:43 PM30 votes

Shhhhhhhhhhhhht I don'T want my enemy to see how hard they will fail duel'ing my swain.

Count Lieberkuhn9/14/2015, 5:21:35 PM18 votes

Heroes of the Storm does this, and it's quite nice to see.

Mimy9/14/2015, 5:05:33 PM8 votes

OMG PLEASE!!! I need to know if my basic attack will kill someone.. Teemo

hahahah... xD (Bring on the hate)

DeusVult9/15/2015, 3:26:46 AM6 votes

This would be a terrible, horrible, game ending nerf to Singed, as people chasing him would know when they are taking too much damage

I like when people chase me to their doom

AVL Prince9/14/2015, 5:21:28 PM6 votes

It's a great idea but there are some issues with it, namely being A: what if my resists change mid DoT, and B: will this visually impact my gameplay?

First off, the damage a DoT deals over time changes per tick. If I throw a malzahar E on you and you gain 100 armor and Mr halfway through, each tick will start doing half damage effectively quartering the damage. Will this cause the bar to change? Will it be fluctuating a lot if I'm someone like wukong and my resists are constantly changing depending on where I am in the teamfight? This leads on to my second point:

Will this health be detrimental to my gameplay? I definitely don't want this health fluctuating back and forth all the time because of my changing resists. What of it tells me I'm going to die and I give up but because of my health regen I actually don't die and end up okay? But then die because I thought I was going to die, see what I mean? If I use a shield, where will that go? Before or after this grey health? What color is it? If I throw a shield and get dotted will my health bar be a rainbow?

These are just things to consider. I love the idea though 10/10

BakedLotion9/14/2015, 9:19:04 PM5 votes

So you want to add more counterplay to an already weak system? DoT's aren't powerful at all since they were all gutted, or were never strong in the first place. Just think about ass' or Brand's DoTs. They already suck. Now you want people to know if its going to kill them or not? "oh its not gonna kill me, not gonna use heal"

IcyPepper9/14/2015, 9:17:17 PM5 votes

DoT before: "Am I going to die?! No? Whatever."

DoT after: "OH SHIT I'M GOING TO DIE WHAT DO I DO?!"

I would enjoy the latter. People would respect the poison champions more, and fear them.

Seth the Bum9/16/2015, 2:45:52 PM4 votes

I have mixed feelings about this. One the one hand, I agree with you, and it would definitely show more clarity and the use of another colored bar is pretty clever. But on the other hand, the one thing I love about DoTs is that they are "sneaky" in a way. If someone gets hit for half their damage by someone's burst, they immediately think, "Oh sh--, I'd better back off!" If someone is hit by a DoT that will do just as much damage, they don't usually think about how much damage they'll be taking, and only see their health as it presently is. I know DoTs can be impactful, so I don't need them to instantly feel impactful for me to appreciate them.

Now, you might be thinking that that's a problem with DoTs, as Riot has shown their stance, that they're considered too powerful because of being a form of "hidden power." I will say that keeping the power of a DoT hidden is exactly the point of a DoT in the first place. Bear in mind that, unlike instant damage, a champion using DoTs is already making a sacrifice in that they have to play much more carefully in order to make use of the DoT, since other champions can simply burst someone into the ground with instant damage and not have to worry about retaliation. With a DoT, you have to keep yourself alive while you wait for your damage to sink in, which in my opinion is the balancing point of not immediately revealing your hand, so to speak.

Another problem with showing the total damage of a DoT, as Reinboom and Penns have stated, is that it will likely cause even more clarity issues. I guess the technical side of such a seemingly small change is somewhat restricted by the way the damage is coded and calculated. Kind of a shame, really, but oh well.

daggers of denak9/15/2015, 3:35:36 PM4 votes

The only problem with this is that it may affect Teemos' early game a lot. He is able to constantly reset his dot. Players aren't gona over extend vs him as much, his making people over extend is the way he wins trades early game , his toxic shot on hit and passive are a lot less effective late game.

Knalxz9/14/2015, 9:30:08 PM4 votes

LoL this will be a great change because attackers will know when to burn and walk while receives will know when to all in. Because

KogMaw "If I'm going to die, we're all going to die."

Fırewood9/14/2015, 4:59:51 PM3 votes

Why not make it like Ashe's Q? The number indicating the total damage accumulates instead of popping up at each tick.

clanku9/15/2015, 10:01:26 AM3 votes

I feel like that's the edge DoT champions need, I mean it's a very small advantage especially in higher levels of play, but sometimes DoT's give the champ the time it needs for the enemy to stay in battle thinking he will win it. Imagine how many disengaged battles Cass would lose if the enemy could see the damage they would take from it. Stuff like this doesn't really matter early game in trading but mid game I think that's a little advantage DoT champions like Swain, and Cass really need.

Otarie539/16/2015, 1:07:51 AM3 votes

a swain nerf?? not on my watch!

YossarianSensei9/17/2015, 4:29:05 AM3 votes

I don't think this is a good idea

Not all DoTs deal the same DPS, and predicting DoTs is part of game knowledge. Heroes of the Storm has this mechanic and I've never been a fan of it, but it does work for HoTS because there's no armor/MR in that game, everything is just pure health.

Alpharite9/14/2015, 9:48:07 PM3 votes

This might actually be a nerf to the champions that use it. It would tell you whether you should pot/retreat to inner turret.

SouL1ess9/14/2015, 11:29:25 PM3 votes

Riot is making dumb excuses to make "reasoning" for their actions, though.

No one feels that their DoT has little effect unless they are unskilled with the champion's kit.

As the caster, it's hard to appreciate how much damage they do. When hit by one, it's hard to tell how much damage it's going to do.

The skill deals the tooltip described damage over a time period. How difficult is that to understand? How does it make one lack appreciation for its damage, and how is it unclear about how much damage the DoT is going to do?

Edit: forgot to answer to OP. I think such thing is not necessary in the game. DoTs don't need a predictable bar for "clarity" to show the enemy whether they require livelihood assistance. If Riot makes stupid statements, let them be stupid; of course what they said aren't the problems with DoT, because those two statements are not problems, but Riot's preference. There is nothing wrong with DoT skills, aside from that Riot doesn't like them. Giving the DoT an visual indicator solves nothing about Riot disliking DoT, because there is nothing wrong with the DoT system in the first place.

DoTs should have an advantage in that their total damage per cast is much higher than immediate damage skills, but their drawback is exactly that they deal damage over a given time period, instead of instantly. Why Riot dislike DoT abilities has nothing to do with how DoT damage skills are expected to work.

Centuros9/14/2015, 5:04:26 PM2 votes

I don't really get people's infatuation with DoTs for their own sake. Surely it would be better for everyone if the damage just happened NOW. Though DoTs are still a good thing to attach to debuffs that also do something else, I guess.

Shroom Junkie9/14/2015, 5:00:31 PM1 votes

Good idea, but one problem: Healing. I mean think about Mundo ult while this goes. Lol.