We build Sunfire Cape cause we wanna deal damage

SlashStriker··3 votes·1,119 views

otherwise there are tons of other defense options that are made for pure defense

These items seems to be Juggernaut Items item 3068 does magic damage to nearby enemies every second item 3742 does damage and slows

These items are made for pure defense item 3143 reduces crit damage and basic attack speed item 3110 reduces attack speed and gives cdr and mana item 3083 health and health recovery item 3065 healing and regen booster item 3193 gives massive defense but reduces the damage you do to enemies

so what sunfire suppose to do is focus on the damage side of it because its why you build this item - you want to some deal damage and the nerfs kidna don't make sense

If we want to make it weaker early game we should give it health scaling

Sunfire should deal 5 (+1% max health) magic damage to nearby enemies and does 30 bonus true damage to minions and monsters for farming

for 1000 health you deal 15 magic damage /s for 2000 health you deal 25 magic damage/s for 5000 health you deal 55 magic damage /s

that way it will reward when you stack health and not so much when you have no extra health Sunfire cape will synergize with item 3748 item 3022 for AD Champions item 3027 item 3116 item 3151 item 3152 for AP champions

22 Comments

Ralanr2 votes

No.

Riot doesn't want sunfire to be an item that gives tanks strength in duels. They want it to be a push item.

They should just increase the radius.

SlashStriker1 votes

{quoted}

No.

Riot doesn't want sunfire to be an item that gives tanks strength in duels. They want it to be a push item.

They should just increase the radius.

should we make the same with item 3748 and item 3152 ? Massively reduce their damage and give them extra damage to minions and monsters to make it pushing items?

Ralanr1 votes

For hydra you'd need to do that to the other one as well.

And who uses the probelt active to farm?

SlashStriker1 votes

{quoted}

For hydra you'd need to do that to the other one as well.

And who uses the probelt active to farm?

I do Shaco item 3152

Penns1 votes

It does 100% damage to minions and has pretty big aoe, you can use it to wave clear. Plus if you hit all the bolts on a super minion it does like 1600 dmg with ~300-400 ap.

TEA Nietzsche 2 votes

Bruisers and mages are supposed to deal more damage than tanks. Although these two items are indeed very strong right now so slight nerfs may even be alright.

SlashStriker1 votes

[{quoted}](name=AI Qaida,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zAYAEuYY,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2017-05-08T10:59:24.394+0000)

Bruisers and mages are supposed to deal more damage than tanks. Although these two items are indeed very strong right now so slight nerfs may even be alright.

So basically you are telling me that when you have 5000 health from pure defense items dealing 55 magic damage to nearby enemies is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much

Chogath true damage based on his max health ^ this guy is what you call Mage Tank Assassin because he can 1 shot you just by pressing R without any specific condition

TEA Nietzsche 1 votes

In his case standing next to you is a very specific condition. With that being said Cho is outdated and doesn't really fit into the League class system - he needs a VGU.

And yes, it was too much damage and took too much from the tank power budget. It gave tanks an insane midgame but they paid for it with a mediocre lategame due to pen. Now penetration got nerfed and tank damage reduced - we will likely see further adjustments made in that area.

YokoNomi1 votes

[{quoted}](name=AI Qaida,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zAYAEuYY,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2017-05-08T10:59:24.394+0000)

Bruisers and mages are supposed to deal more damage than tanks. Although these two items are indeed very strong right now so slight nerfs may even be alright.

You'd rather intend to leave bruisers defenseless? Not only tanks need to build survivability with top lane, and I'd rather not see some champions gradually stripped of what helps them sustain their lane due to the item being seen as a "threat". Besides, Sunfire's damage had already been nerfed awhile back, and to only a certain extent would I agree that Dead Man's might have its own special issue, but wasn't that nerfed recently as well?

Popular opinion or not, I see no reason to nerf Sunfire. The item has served its purpose over the years the game and has been given its own checks and balances to keep it in line. If it's still considered a "problem", then it'd ultimately result in the fact that it does damage, not how much it does. In which case it'd have been removed a long time ago. It's fine.

TEA Nietzsche 2 votes

{quoted}

You'd rather intend to leave bruisers defenseless?

I did neither say nor imply that.

Not only tanks need to build survivability with top lane, and I'd rather not see some champions gradually stripped of what helps them sustain their lane due to the item being seen as a "threat". Besides, Sunfire's damage had already been nerfed awhile back, and to only a certain extent would I agree that Dead Man's might have its own special issue, but wasn't that nerfed recently as well?

There are quite a few tank items available right now that should interest champions with a need for survivability.

Popular opinion or not, I see no reason to nerf Sunfire. The item has served its purpose over the years the game and has been given its own checks and balances to keep it in line. If it's still considered a "problem", then it'd ultimately result in the fact that it does damage, not how much it does. In which case it'd have been removed a long time ago. It's fine.

This is just illogical. Just because it hasn't been removed that means that it can't be overtuned? Give me a break.

It gives tanks a super strong midgame which meant that penetration had to be too strong to deal with their lategame - now tanks can't deal that much damage which means they are allowed to be tankier (with the new items). It's the right direction, let's see if further adjustments are needed.

Who is Taliyah1 votes

I think they should make the passive deal good damage to minions but mediocre damage to champion.

YokoNomi1 votes

{quoted}

No.

Riot doesn't want sunfire to be an item that gives tanks strength in duels. They want it to be a push item.

They should just increase the radius.

Wouldn't that just risk too much dominance in both team fights and in lane? Not saying it does a lot of damage, but that damage would feel a little too "free" during encounters.

SlashStriker1 votes

{quoted}

Wouldn't that just risk too much dominance in both team fights and in lane? Not saying it does a lot of damage, but that damage would feel a little too "free" during encounters.

if 2900 gold is free then good for you

YokoNomi1 votes

{quoted}

if 2900 gold is free then good for you

I can't tell if you're doing this intentionally. I meant free, in a sense that the player itself wouldn't need to bother to actually be on you or that close in order for the item's unique passive to proc. It's precisely for that reason that it had received some very hefty nerfs in the past, and actually demands the player to interact with the target on a somewhat more intimate level to trade off.

SlashStriker1 votes

{quoted}

I can't tell if you're doing this intentionally. I meant free, in a sense that the player itself wouldn't need to bother to actually be on you or that close in order for the item's unique passive to proc. It's precisely for that reason that it had received some very hefty nerfs in the past, and actually demands the player to interact with the target on a somewhat more intimate level to trade off.

there are tons of shit it can be done with that

after spellcast next basic attack creates explosion that deal 3% max health to nearby enemies as magic damage or abilities does additional 4.5% max health as bonus magic damage over 3 seconds (does not stack) and so on

Ralanr1 votes

With low champion damage? I don't think so.

YokoNomi1 votes

{quoted}

With low champion damage? I don't think so.

Not to be rude, but the actual lack of context of your response has me wondering what you're talking about. This is why I don't like it when people don't quote what they're intending to reply to.

Ralanr1 votes

From my understanding the damage of sunfire was reduced heavily so it wouldn't hurt actual champions as much as it did.

So I'm not worried about it hurting champions more in teamfights if the radius is increased. If need be, just remove the damage to champions and make it 100% of a pushing tool.

YokoNomi1 votes

{quoted}

From my understanding the damage of sunfire was reduced heavily so it wouldn't hurt actual champions as much as it did.

So I'm not worried about it hurting champions more in teamfights if the radius is increased. If need be, just remove the damage to champions and make it 100% of a pushing tool.

Wouldn't that just demand a whole new item all together? The whole purpose of sunfire was the additive armor and mild aoe damage it gave. Sure it could be seen something that helps in pushing, but there are items that are far better suited for that role in top lane. I'm still trying to figure out why there's a sudden discussion of sunfire becoming a pushing item, as a couple of other threads cropped up.

Ralanr1 votes

See, it's supposed to be the tank AoE push item. Rather than forcing tanks to build something like titanic hydra (which they don't AA enough for it).

Big Lincoln1 votes

increase the radius and make it do a hell of a lot more to minions in the later stages of the game

maybe % true damage against supers or something so it doesn't take a million years to clear them

Rainfall1 votes

what riot wants is for toplane to be a troll lane where it does not matter what you do or whether you win or lose lane becausw no one has damage. they want tanks to be supports 2.0 for their team.

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