Turret Plating snowballs the winning team even harder

SlashStriker·Nov 27, 2018·59 votes·17,435 views

If you are winning your lane you can get up to 750 gold from turret plating If you are losing you wont be able to get any gold from enemy turrets since turret plating falls at 15 minute mark. So much for the extra gold that you can get when you lose and trying to make any comebacks and this actually snowballs the winning team harder and comebacks for losing team is far less achievable.

If lets say you are on the winning team you should get at most 50 gold when destroying turret plate. Up to 250 gold for the winning team. If you are on the losing team you should get 150 gold from destroying turret plate. Up to 750 gold for the losing team Turret plates are not suppose to fall unless you destroy them so the losing team is able to get some gold from it so they can make a comeback

Bounty makes no difference from before but just shows the value of a champion and does nothing else. This changed nothing except that a feeder now gives minimum of 100 gold when it was lower than before while max gold is 1000 when before it was higher

61 Comments

iiGazeiiNov 27, 201835 votes

Correct. That was the intention. The team that is winning should win unless the losing team gets their crap together and starts working together. They shouldn't be able to drag a lost game out for ten extra minutes.

The new turrets are tankier. If you're going to let somebody chew away at the tower for all that gold without attacking them back, then you deserve to lose your lane. They either killed you/forced you to back (i.e., outplayed you), or you stood around doing nothing while they took that free gold.

The turret changes were designed to stop an early snowball, not all snowballs. The ball doesn't start rolling until 14 minutes because it's more profitable to stay in lane even if you get ahead. Before, people would get a lead, kill their laner, and look to roam for more kills or objectives, accelerating the match into the midgame before the losing team could get enough gold to really contest anything. These changes give the losing team the opportunity to farm for 14 minutes so they'll at least have an item or two to bring to the midgame.

VecturnNov 27, 20185 votes

{quoted}

Correct. That was the intention. The team that is winning should win unless the losing team gets their crap together and starts working together. They shouldn't be able to drag a lost game out for ten extra minutes.

The new turrets are tankier. If you're going to let somebody chew away at the tower for all that gold without attacking them back, then you deserve to lose your lane. They either killed you/forced you to back (i.e., outplayed you), or you stood around doing nothing while they took that free gold.

The turret changes were designed to stop an early snowball, not all snowballs. The ball doesn't start rolling until 14 minutes because it's more profitable to stay in lane even if you get ahead. Before, people would get a lead, kill their laner, and look to roam for more kills or objectives, accelerating the match into the midgame before the losing team could get enough gold to really contest anything. These changes give the losing team the opportunity to farm for 14 minutes so they'll at least have an item or two to bring to the midgame.

They are not tankier and they do not stop snowballs or 3 to 4 guys focusing down a single turret early game. It is almost laughable to think they were any more durable than the previous iterations. If anything they are less durable especially with the meta around some ranged champions like Jhin and Cait who will hard peck at them regardless of minions or general turret fire distraction.

I personally thought the ~~ARMOR~~ was supposed to be a second skin that gave gold per 1000 health notch before you could take down its actual health. You know because when you read "(Plates don't have health of their own.)", you tend to think they are meant to keep the main health of the turret untouched until destroyed.

Apparently, Riot games thinks a hand held shield/bullet proof vest/plate is actually representative of your body so if it gets destroyed so does your life. Armor either mitigates/minimizes damage or completely absorbs damage, but in this case it does neither and appears to be the actual health pool of the turret.

Yes, I know it is not supposed to change the dynamics of the game and yet still reward aggressive play (which is a dynamic)...but there is no noticeable difference between this turret, previous turrets, and the behavior of players who bully. Apart from getting gold now.

The armor is pointless, you could have just made a patch that awards gold per 1000 health damage on turrets before the 14 minute mark and completely drop this "Armor" garbage.

iiGazeiiNov 27, 201811 votes

The outer turrets have 2000 more health and more armor/MR than before. They are objectively harder to destroy pre-14m than the previous outer turrets, and the devs have revealed that on average, outer turrets are falling 1-2 minutes later than they did before this patch.

BalanceTeamhaHAANov 28, 20182 votes

They may say that, but they burn infinitely faster than the previous versions. I even did a test in practice mode and they burn a lot quicker than the previous versions of the towers, though they do more damage.

Düff McWhalenNov 27, 201833 votes

Rito made a change with the stated goal to make snowballing harder but really did the complete opposite. Go figure. It's called stop giving them money.

AR URFNov 28, 20181 votes

I don't think boycotts are going to work against Riot because they just cater to Korean players anyway.

OleandervineNov 27, 20185 votes

I don't understand their logic with turret plating. People want longer games, and for turrets not to be made of paper mache. Yet they've said laning is longer, but games are still the same overall speed. What's the fucking point of turret plating if games aren't actually impacted by them?

The Bad TouchNov 27, 20182 votes

{quoted}

I don't understand their logic with turret plating. People want longer games, and for turrets not to be made of paper mache. Yet they've said laning is longer, but games are still the same overall speed. What's the fucking point of turret plating if games aren't actually impacted by them?

The worst part is it removed the risk of rushing first turret. Before it was an all or nothing gamble. Now if you commit but can't finish you can still walk away with 3-4 plates worth of easy gold. All it does is reward bad macro play with free gold.

People were complaining about first turret gold. What was Riots answer? Give first turret gold to every single early turret take AND not even require finishing the turret kill to get a reward. Even if you only get a sheen proc, a Caitlyn headshot, and a demolish proc you got gold for just being there.

How out of touch with Riot is with it's player base just continues to amaze me. Then again maybe this is what the Chinese/Korean player base is asking for. In which cause I guess the NA/EU player base is just shit out of luck.

MalrothDragoniaNov 27, 20185 votes

the point wasn't to make games longer, it was just to make laning phase longer, they've stated they're satisfied with avg game length

GayFluffyUnicornNov 28, 20181 votes

Good for them. Let's hope more people start quitting instead of suffering through this bullshit. Noone cares what riot wants.

MalrothDragoniaNov 28, 20182 votes

I don't know why the response is 'more people should quit because of the thing I dislike'.

I'm fine with the game changing, it's fine if you aren't, and most of the claims of 'Riot just wants that $$ they don't care about player experience' is outright false.

Do they make mistakes? 100%, but the community often assumes they: A) do no testing, objectively false. B) do insufficient testing. probably true, but a lot of that is sample size. No amount of internal/PBE testing will give the type of data being on live servers do, so they do the best they can. Mistakes will happen. Don't like it? Don't play any live game ever. Fortnite has had it's snafus as well, and it's way younger (the dominance of homing missiles) C) are all Silver scrubs who don't play. Also objectively false. They specifically bring in a range of player types, and often balance champs around low-level player experience even if pros have easy strats around them (like when mid-Yi was a dominant low-elo pick but had zero traction in high, yet they hit him with nerfs anyways)

They've stated their goals for this season, which I find reasonable, mainly: give lane bullies some real rewards so they can make it to midgame, without opening up the map for the whole team as a result. (turret plating)

Open up Rune diversity, as the locked stats meant certain champs couldn't take their optimal runes without severe disadvantage (which, though early days, seems to be what's happening)

Tone down outliers, which is WIP and hasn't hit yet, because the previous two changes are pretty big for a variety of champs and they wanted to see if this curtailed the strength of certain abused champs.

I think as pillars of design for a strategic/competitive game that's pretty reasonable even if, and I will repeat, you personally dislike the changes.

deadlychuckNov 28, 20182 votes

They've got a quota to meet and an "industry standard" to uphold.

At least according to tencent... who uses mobile games as the industry standard... (Confirmed by former paragon dev)

mack9112Nov 28, 20185 votes

Think about it this way you die 3 or 4 times to your lane opponent which is about enough times to lose all your plates.

14 minutes hit and the plates fall on both sides so the enemy turret is extremely easy to kill which is a comeback mechanic for a behind team

As well the enemy who stomped you in lane is now worth 1000 gold which is more gold than all the plates you lost.

Even though you made mistakes and lost your lane these mechanics allow for someone behind to turn it around.

The natural power these turrets give is also a larger incentive to take tp.

The Bad TouchNov 27, 20184 votes

Sadly turret plating just further promotes inactivity, PvE to win, and 4-5 man bot all lane phase.

As the game stands it's just about picking something like Sivir/Zyra bot lane... hard push and 4 man free tower at 7-8 minutes followed by a free drag, The game can be 1 to 0 but you're so far behind you just sit there wanting to FF by 10 minutes in. LoL used to be a PvP game.... now it's just whoever pushes waves harder auto wins.

The moment bot turret falls (and it nearly always does by 10 minutes) you lose control of dragon and your own bot side jungle. From there it always turns into "all top" into rift. Every game feels exactly the same now. First bot tower basically results free drag, then use that lead for free top turret into free rift. The behind team then loses 2 turrets to rift, and often loses inhib before baron even spawns. They then get stuck defending buffed supers as baron spawns resulting in a GG without ever getting to do anything.

Saying turrets are "tougher" is pretty laughable. It's like saying a 12 year old would do better in a UFC fight than a 10 year old. The difference with a 4 bot push is about 2 seconds. The only thing the turret changes did was give the team killing them more gold and make it harder for a bot lane that doesn't have an Alistar to dive the enemy bot lane.... which AGAIN does nothing but promote the 4-5 bot lane at 7-8 minute dives with double tanks.

While turrets still do rape face damage to squishy champs they still do laughable damage to armor stacking shield tanks like Sion.

Been saying this for a long time. Turret's shouldn't be giant free gold targets to farm they should be defensive structures that help late game comps live long enough to scale. They should also deal mixed damage and % armor/magic shred. As it stands by level 9 a Sion is soaking like 8-9 shots and walking out alive. By 16+ this is more like 15-20 shots. This really penalizes AD heavy comps as well as tanks are already armor stacking. Magic damage heavy comps don't have to deal with heavy tank divers due to them building far less armor.

To summarize my thoughts on "how it should be."

Turrets need to reward less gold. (30% less sounds reasonable.)
Turrets should deal mixed damage. (50/50 physical/magical.)
Turret shots should have 40% bonus armor/MR penetration. (Same damage to squishies more to tanks.)
Some turret damage should shift to deal %hp damage to counter what would invariably become a Sterak's diver meta. (Same damage to squishies more to HP stackers. Yes thinking ahead is a thing Rito.)

Daddy AntsNov 27, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Bad Touch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wvtP1vMR,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-11-27T16:43:05.617+0000)

Sadly turret plating just further promotes inactivity, PvE to win, and 4-5 man bot all lane phase.

As the game stands it's just about picking something like Sivir/Zyra bot lane... hard push and 4 man free tower at 7-8 minutes followed by a free drag, The game can be 1 to 0 but you're so far behind you just sit there wanting to FF by 10 minutes in. LoL used to be a PvP game.... now it's just whoever pushes waves harder auto wins.

The moment bot turret falls (and it nearly always does by 10 minutes) you lose control of dragon and your own bot side jungle. From there it always turns into "all top" into rift. Every game feels exactly the same now. First bot tower basically results free drag, then use that lead for free top turret into free rift. The behind team then loses 2 turrets to rift, and often loses inhib before baron even spawns. They then get stuck defending buffed supers as baron spawns resulting in a GG without ever getting to do anything.

Saying turrets are "tougher" is pretty laughable. It's like saying a 12 year old would do better in a UFC fight than a 10 year old. The difference with a 4 bot push is about 2 seconds. The only thing the turret changes did was give the team killing them more gold and make it harder for a bot lane that doesn't have an Alistar to dive the enemy bot lane.... which AGAIN does nothing but promote the 4-5 bot lane at 7-8 minute dives with double tanks.

While turrets still do rape face damage to squishy champs they still do laughable damage to armor stacking shield tanks like Sion.

Been saying this for a long time. Turret's shouldn't be giant free gold targets to farm they should be defensive structures that help late game comps live long enough to scale. They should also deal mixed damage and % armor/magic shred. As it stands by level 9 a Sion is soaking like 8-9 shots and walking out alive. By 16+ this is more like 15-20 shots. This really penalizes AD heavy comps as well as tanks are already armor stacking. Magic damage heavy comps don't have to deal with heavy tank divers due to them building far less armor.

To summarize my thoughts on "how it should be."

Turrets need to reward less gold. (30% less sounds reasonable.)

Turrets should deal mixed damage. (50/50 physical/magical.)

Turret shots should have 40% bonus armor/MR penetration. (Same damage to squishies more to tanks.)

Some turret damage should shift to deal %hp damage to counter what would invariably become a Sterak's diver meta. (Same damage to squishies more to HP stackers. Yes thinking ahead is a thing Rito.)

Turrets need a lot more than 40%.

Remember when the laser turrets were a thing? They had like 70% armor penetration and you felt safe under them.

I'd say the turrets need 55-60% armor/magic pen

KynamiNov 28, 20181 votes

The damage on them wasn't high... it was the fact the lasers also conferred a slow on the target they were hitting. Which made those diving take damage for longer and made diving without dashes or a flash available a much tougher proposition against somebody even remotely able to kite away.

CaveslothNov 28, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Remember when the laser turrets were a thing? They had like 70% armor penetration and you felt safe under them.

Pepperidge Farm remembers.

Daddy AntsNov 27, 20184 votes

Lets say a lane gets first turret....

That's 160g x5 for the plating PLUS 150g for First turret.

950 gold from taking down the first turret is absurd.

IfnethNov 27, 20181 votes

That’s if you kill the turret before 14 minutes, which is hard without help, which in turn spreads the gold.

Th3KindredSpiritNov 28, 20182 votes

Take inting sion shenanigans top, you literally eat through the plates in 14min easily without any help and get free gold (unless jg duo's top but then that means the other lanes don't get pressure) then you just get items and keep eating towers, very fun stuff.

IfnethNov 28, 20182 votes

“inting Sion” is actually about playing safe until two or three items and then splitpushing with Demolish and Glory in Death. The enemy team must stop you, but the bonus health from Soul Furnace and Overgrowth makes you so tanky that you can keep hitting the turret for quite a while.

On the other hand, a Sion running at the turret over and over again early game is just an easy gank, even in solo-queue. Once junglers understand why laners are pushing so hard, they will camp to punish these overextensions more reliably.

GayFluffyUnicornNov 28, 20182 votes

Don't even bother. After all the majority here is silver. They don't know how to push towers, how to win lane properly and how fast towers still go down while your laner gets absurd amounts of gold off of it.

There is a reason why high elo games are over even faster in many cases.

dark100dark100Nov 27, 20184 votes

I hate these new towers. As a support I was allowed to do ganks at the cost of some tower health. Now that means free gold for the enemy while I risk a lot. So I am forced to sit under tower and I hate it. It is also awful when somebody is afk for a few minutes. The enemy gets so much free gold. You can also get a lot of money with lane bullies with catcher support that everybody is forced to use them. This limits my options and I hate it as well. Ty riot, great work!

Cait MainNov 27, 20182 votes

That's whats called a tradeoff. You are now punished for failing early ganks. You do well they get 160g you get 450g from a kill. You do poorly and you get behind in gold.

IfnethNov 27, 20183 votes

You can also crash a stacked wave into their turret. If you roam quickly and recall immediately, then they will return it just as you come back to lane.

CaveslothNov 28, 20181 votes

Yeah I think players have had enough of being punished by RIot. Wasn't season 8 punishment enough?

LegitBusinessmanNov 29, 20181 votes

The real issue is that if you make a proactive play for a successful gank, you end up breaking even.

LimrickNov 27, 20183 votes

...And then shutdowns make comebacks easier. Both need some tuning, but you can't just look at one in a vacuum and say the whole game is fucked.

LiL Bunnie FuFuuNov 27, 20181 votes

True but shutdowns and turret plating are both worth wayyy too much gold right now, the end result being more snowballing

LimrickNov 28, 20181 votes

Well yeah, I did say it needs tuning. 1k gold shutdowns are a bit ridiculous, so is 160 a plate.

YennNov 27, 20184 votes

{quoted}

...And then shutdowns make comebacks easier. Both need some tuning, but you can't just look at one in a vacuum and say the whole game is fucked.

This is only relevant in low rated games. Once you have significant shut down gold, you're so far ahead that you can comfortably end the game, and can only be shut down if you make a massive mistake. Good players don't make enough mistakes for the losing team to capitalize on the shut down gold.

In most cases, a winning lane on the losing team will also have shutdown gold, which is easy for the enemy who is already way ahead to collect. In this case, it just snowballs the winning team even higher and acts as a 'fuck you' to the one person who won their lane.

The game is completely fucked up at a high level right now.

LiL Bunnie FuFuuNov 27, 20184 votes

In most cases, a winning lane on the losing team will also have shutdown gold, which is easy for the enemy who is already way ahead to collect. In this case, it just snowballs the winning team even higher

This x100. Very well said

DardasimNov 27, 20183 votes

I agree. Turrets should take out gold instead. You kill the first turret, you get -950 gold.

deadlychuckNov 28, 20182 votes

I mean, honestly it'd probably create more strategy around killing turrets, when they should be killed, whom should participate, and cause the game to be far less predictable.

WoodakoodashoodaNov 27, 20182 votes

The gold awarded for turret plating really adds insult to injury for lanes who fall behind.

If you're constantly pushed under turret, you're likely being denied CS; so, your enemy is already gaining a gold lead so long as they know how to freeze the lane at the correct spots.
If you're trying to play safe under turret, it's likely the result of having died once or twice to the enemy, providing them with a gold and xp advantage through kills, farming, and likely one or more turret plates during the time you spent dead.
Turret plates encourage early ganks more so than ever as does the lack of xp granted from monster camps, because why spent 10 minutes reaching level 6 from farming when a jungle can reach it in 8 simply by taxing ally lanes of their farm? Yes, the turret plating destroyed is shared, but a jungle that takes advantage of as many turret plates as possible will place themselves AND their lanes ahead of their respective opponents, placing enemy laners AND the enemy jungle behind.

ThefrostyvikingNov 27, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chocolate Frost,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wvtP1vMR,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-11-27T16:20:28.504+0000)

The gold awarded for turret plating really adds insult to injury for lanes who fall behind.

If you're constantly pushed under turret, you're likely being denied CS; so, your enemy is already gaining a gold lead so long as they know how to freeze the lane at the correct spots.

There are two sides to everything, before pushing up to the tower but being unable to take it was just risky due to jungle exposure, now people have a proper motivation to push which makes it easier for the jungle to abuse them.

But people will do it exactly because its rewarding, which promotes action rather than a stale party where both sides just farm and are too scared to ever fight and the greatest goal is to freeze a wave before your own tower.

If you're trying to play safe under turret, it's likely the result of having died once or twice to the enemy, providing them with a gold and xp advantage through kills, farming, and likely one or more turret plates during the time you spent dead.

Before last i checked if you went and died at a even slightly bad time the tower went down from full health right away from the followup push, now it takes screwing up royally to have that happen before the plating falls.

Turret plates encourage early ganks more so than ever as does the lack of xp granted from monster camps, because why spent 10 minutes reaching level 6 from farming when a jungle can reach it in 8 simply by taxing ally lanes of their farm? Yes, the turret plating destroyed is shared, but a jungle that takes advantage of as many turret plates as possible will place themselves AND their lanes ahead of their respective opponents, placing enemy laners AND the enemy jungle behind.

Your view of this is shallow.

Like if a jungler sits in a lane to help them push then they will fall behind in EXP unless they can actually manage to take any towerplating, whats more they will have to share farm between 2-3 people where it wasnt intended creating a gold shortage.

But early on its easy for the defending side to sit under tower and take any fights they want, people can only survive 3 towershots at most which makes it hella risky to forcefully push a defended tower, one bad move and the aggressors will die and the defenders will come out ahead.

Its still the case that the most favorable thing is to is farm normally then help laners push if you succeed in ganking some place to try and get the first tower, just as before.

bobyboucherNov 27, 20182 votes

... Laning phase is longer due to plating no if and or buts about it... it was to stop say a 10 min 4 man roam bot kill the adc and support take 1st turret then take those 4 mid get that lane dominated as well and take that turret etc etc snowball out of the game. They did that it's much harder to get that early snowball. HOWEVER There is still incentive to win the lane dominate shove to tower now and that is the gold. If you don't want "ALL THAT GOLD" to go to the enemy team then don't get beat....that is the whole point. It's risk reward.... they win lane but shove to turret and try to get that extra gold...well that means they are pushed and exposed to a gank / collapse from your team. If your team does not punish that then should they deserve to win?

It was never about stopping all snowballs and just picking all late game champs to out scale an enemy team it was about stopping the 1 messup at 6mins in snowballing to 2 lanes getting dominated and the game being over ... much harder to do that now with plating and it rare to see a tower go pre plating so they got what they wanted but the team that is winning the lane still comes out ahead as they should!

the Anarchit3chtNov 27, 20181 votes

Riots own data actually indicates there wasn't any significance to the way lane phase plays out/the over all length of games.

Frog goes mooNov 27, 20181 votes

where are you getting this data from?

the Anarchit3chtNov 28, 20181 votes

Gameplay thoughts. They noted an increase in lane phase by a minute or two, but also said no significant changes occurred to the pacing of the game.

GreenKnightNov 28, 20182 votes

Yeah... i liked this change at first, but now, after testing it... it's stupid. Turrets are still paper after plating falls, they give even more gold at first, and deal almost no dmg. Good job...

Spank the FoxNov 28, 20182 votes

The point of plating is to stay in your lane.

If you’re roaming hard before 14 or losing lane enough to be forced back several times, the enemy is rewarded some gold for sticking in lane rather than roaming themselves

SlashStrikerNov 28, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Spank the Fox,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wvtP1vMR,comment-id=0014,timestamp=2018-11-28T13:02:01.710+0000)

The point of plating is to stay in your lane.

If you’re roaming hard before 14 or losing lane enough to be forced back several times, the enemy is rewarded some gold for sticking in lane rather than roaming themselves

Which sometimes can be bad idea especially when you are behind. Even if you don't leave your lane you are still under pressure and can still lose really hard. Also if you are behind your opponent will just tower dive you and kill you under your own turret so staying is pretty bad idea when you are already really behind. And to make it worst now turret plating also gives your opponent even greater gold lead

So my point is that the team is ahead should get less gold from turret plate than the team that is behind. The winning team is already ahead and by giving them even more gold they become massively ahead making comebacks even harder than before.

Press Q WinNov 27, 20181 votes

Well Tower give too much gold right now, wich indeed cause snowball but another problem is that after plating fall off, the tower have no more resistance and are made of wet paper.. I had a graves who 5 shotted a tower with 2 item after plating fell of.. this isn't sane.

zaxscatNov 28, 20181 votes

I was a support with a cait and we lost the first tower that being said after the plays fell and it was a 3v5 mid me and cait pushed down 3 tower and Got good damage on the inhib befor the enemy stopped us, and I am sorry that is wrong

mack9112Nov 27, 20181 votes

I like that it makes roams more risky and it rewards correct control and rewards personal skill expression.

GayFluffyUnicornNov 28, 20182 votes

Personal skill expression lol.

Lots of skill picking a ranged perma pusher and PVE for free gold.

mack9112Nov 28, 20182 votes

Last week assassin's burst me to easy

Next week mages push too easy

Ok boards...

Yes this game has alot of skill expression in it not just in what you do bit also how you react to enemy place styles .

If instead you reacting and adapting to different places styles you just wanna complain then why even place a competitive game

CaveslothNov 28, 20181 votes

Yeah the fact that it creates more snowball shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. That's what Riot wants, more snowball more damage, more action for the LCS. Gotta get them e-sports dollas yo.

HyperTechnoNov 28, 20181 votes

The turrets are in beta, they only have the PBE information. However, I found that snowballing is not as worse as it uses to be. Tbh, it has helped a lot.

As for the bounty system, any more gold added to the max bounty will make comebacks way too strong. Plus, Cs is now counted with the bounty. Making bounties extremely strong.

Your first comment is allegations, you also forgetting proof. Most of the high elo players have yet to complain and the same goes for lower elo. Secondly, just because you have a Gold lead, does not mean you automatically win. The older outer turrets gave global gold when they died (500 G) which is 2500 gold for the whole team, now it gives about (250 Gold) which is about 1250 gold, correct me if I am wrong. The plating gives split gold to the allies that break a plating, not full gold.

If my math is correct, if you brake all five plates on all turrets you will at least be given 2900 gold for the whole team, correct me if I am wrong. The chances of you getting all three turrets striped before 14 minutes are, very, unlikely. Then you have to add the enemy turret plating gold. Which will make the 2900 gold lead imposable to reach.

So tell me, again, how do the new turrets make one team snowball better than the other?