After poaching 3 large monsters from the enemy jungle (50 SECONDS COOLDOWN) transforms into Serrated Dirk.
If you are to slain 3 monsters from the enemy jungle why the hell does it have 50 seconds cooldown?
Ralanr29 votesI assumed it was because it told the enemy you're counter jungling now.
FilDaFunk1 votesBut what if you start ganking? [zombie-brand-mindblown]
AMYS GRAVE5 votes^ this is why. Counter jungling isn't something you can announce to the enemy team and expect to be successful.
The Yetii Rider2 votesWhy not? It wasn't that great as a Smite upgrade, certainly, but AD assassins are hyper mobile champions. If they're going against a tank or AP jungler they can easily get in, steal a camp and get out before the enemy even notices. How are you going to punish a Lee Sin that invades? Walk behind the camp. Q. If the camp is there, Q2. Otherwise walk to another camp. Throw down your trinket and W out. Counterjungling as Lee Sin is brain dead easy.
Junkο2 votesNot if the enemy team wards the jungle because they know you will be counterjungling. If you get gangbanged from every angle you are a free kill for the enemy team, and the enemy jungler can now for a few seconds reign free with 0 risks of counterganks.
The Yetii Rider2 votesPeople don't work together like that in solo queue.
I play Nunu. No one stops me from counterjungling.
Junkο1 votesMaybe not in Silver and low Gold (no offense intended, also Nunu is one of the faster counterjunglers so less time to react) because from my experience people don't even ward there, but in higher elos people will usually ward and gang up on people entering their jungle, especially if they do it frequently (it's also pretty much the only thing we know how to do without infighting) and counterjungling too much is a good way to shut yourself down.
The Yetii Rider2 votesMaybe not in Silver and low Gold (no offense intended, also Nunu is one of the faster counterjunglers so less time to react) because from my experience people don't even ward there, but in higher elos people will usually ward and gang up on people entering their jungle, especially if they do it frequently (it's also pretty much the only thing we know how to do without infighting) and counterjungling too much is a good way to shut yourself down.
Okay but high elo is like five percent of the entire population so AD counterjungling works in 95% of games. So your argument is largely not applicable to League as a whole. It's not a very compelling argument.
Junkο1 votesFair enough.
sp4414 votesAlso because it's a risky item on champions that can't quite afford to take unnecessary risks to save you about 500 gold.
Seriously, just why fucking bother. Be patient and wait just a little bit more. Risking giving the enemy at least 450 Gold, as well as losing a ton of exp and gold yourself is not worth 500 gold.
Hyrum Graff1 votesAlso because it's a risky item on champions that can't quite afford to take unnecessary risks to save you about 500 gold.
Seriously, just why fucking bother. Be patient and wait just a little bit more. Risking giving the enemy at least 450 Gold, as well as losing a ton of exp and gold yourself is not worth 500 gold.
Because I'm buying all 3 of the lethality items and I can afford to sit on my dirk for a while while the enemy wards their jungle in vain :P
The Yetii Rider1 votesYou assumed wrong. If 
or
want to steal a camp, they're stealing a camp. Ain't a goddamn thing you can do about it.
One of the main reasons Poacher's isn't built is because Shaco is so poor when built AD, but the changes on the PBE address that.
BossaNovaFlare1 votesThat and the item is practically useless until it becomes the Dirk. The problem lies in the fact that you need to wait at the very minimum two and a half minutes to stack this item. However, all three champs you mentioned are early game, no matter how they build. You need to get a lead and push it to the nexus. If you don't you will usually lose. If they choose to build these items to be gold efficient, they are effectively saying there's 2 and half minutes they wont be that strong, and for having to wait that long, serrated dirk isn't exactly a huge power spike. This basically destroys the playstyle of the very junglers it's meant to help.
WzqdQsZwQA18 votes[deleted]
Blackstone016 votes"Slayer's Edge", "Edge of Darkness", "Slaughter Knife", "Edgey Edge", all perfect item names for jungle Yasuo/Kayn mains.
AMYS GRAVE1 votesEdgy Edge-ayn, Edgy lord of the Edgy legion.
TheMoralSupport1 votes"Edgey Edge" Lmfao
Support IRL10 votesThat item still exists?
[slayer-jinx-unamused]
Darkdemon6538 votesAn even bigger problem with PK is that it transforms into a Serrated Dirk. No jungler wants a Serrated Dirk. Even if SD's upgrades weren't complete garbage, they would be considered on maybe three champions.
TehNACHO1 votesTo be fair, a lot of AD Junglers work perfectly with Serrated Dirk itself; it's stats are pretty perfect for the role.
There is the cheese strat of first item rushing Dirk and sitting on it for the early game just for the snowball potential.
YFisfabulousBRUH1 votesI was in a ranked game just now as AD jungle shaco, and i considered buying this item, but when i looked at the 50 second cooldown i was just like "nope nope im not going to go fight vi with this". I bought a long sword to start building serrated dirk for my duskblade XDD. Its just too much risk for too little reward.
crippler387 votesProbably because otherwise you could clear out half of an enemy's jungle and boom, have big gold gain from just doing that one invasion.
Xonra5 votesSo? If you are able to do it and they didn't stop you after THREE camps, then that is good on you and bad on them.
Why not be rewarded for doing that? I don't see a problem with it personally (and I don't jungle, so I'm not biased).
crippler383 votesWell because that basically means you get like over a kill's worth of gold just because the enemy didn't pay attention for 30 seconds or they're like bronze or something, too good against bad players and against anyone good you're not likely to find any camps alive for long enough to steal them anyway.
When you have an item like poachers, I think they're incredibly careful about the idea of super snowballing with a kill's worth of gold just because the enemy is bad rather than you being good.
Slimegoon1 votesSo justify a 20 second cooldown.
crippler382 votesPersonally I wouldn't be too broken up if they straight delete the item.
BossaNovaFlare1 votesOr just make it 5 camps, that way they need to hit up both sides of the enemy jungle, or wait for camps to respawn. Then they could remove the cd entirely
YFisfabulousBRUH1 votesExactly. If im shaco and im 3 camps and 1 lvl ahead of the enemy jungler, then i should be able to snowball even harder (which is what shaco is supposed to do), and this item wouldnt help in the least. I never build this item because of the stupid cooldown and how fast it takes for me to clear camps.
SSShutTheDuckUp2 votesIf with one it would be too strong and with three - too weak - just make it work with 2 invades. Imagine a charge system, similar to 
for example - you can take 2 procs fast, then wait 50 seconds for the third. Or go, take one camp, then wait 50 seconds, invade again and take 2 more to upgrade the item.
crippler381 votesMaybe, I'm no balance designer, only thing I can think of is that they don't want the item to be too good vs newer or not skilled players.
SSShutTheDuckUp1 votesProbably. Also TBH early game junglers do not need more power over the scaling ones. The possibility of being invaded by Elise or Lee already forces champions like Nocturne out of the meta
Spacesuit Spiff1 votesIm not too concerned about low elo junglers. Youd be too busy farming their laners to bother with invading
crippler382 votesRiot probably is concerned about low elo junglers.
Making them get shitstomped because they're shit even harder than they already would be by an invading jungler like lee or shaco or something would just destroy the experience of the weaker players.
Velasan3 votesAs has been said already, it's just a bad combination of a lot of things on one item that make it bad.
Several of those factors include the fact that for the type of item it is the JG's who would want to build it are heavy ganking junglers not counter jungling types.
It takes a considerable time investment. It's also risky to counter jungle, and the item incentives counter jungling just to get the item going (much like Kindred marks) and the enemy team can see that you built it adding to that risk.
Also, the items it builds into aren't the type of things you would want to pick up as first buys (typically), so by the time around mid game when you may want one of those items there is no point in getting the poachers dirk anymore.
If they really want to make counter jungling a big thing then they need an item which makes it slightly safer and gives more gold/exp for clearing an enemy camp as compared to your own. Like, an extra ward that alerts you when people walk past it but are visible to the enemy team or a trap you can set that when stepped on gives you vision of the enemy for 10 seconds.
Poachers dirk just doesn't cut it. Get it? Because it's a knife. : )
SlashStriker2 votesAs has been said already, it's just a bad combination of a lot of things on one item that make it bad.
Shiet! i didn't relize that this item has so many stats https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-BZ5g2HF_NaU/WVLsiMmWBBI/AAAAAAABENo/5LLbOGN6UL0BxKlwQhzNkT2DzjP_o1UpwCLcBGAs/s1600/pp.jpg
YFisfabulousBRUH2 votesLong sword gives the exact same amount of AD and it's much safer to farm, gank, and back to buy serrated dirk from the gold you get/
iahim981 votesI like the idea of an item that leaves a ward after you kill an enemy camp or its big monster, reminds me of warcraft 3 where killing the boss of a certain camp leaves a ward behind, which gave an interesting mechanic where you would pull the boss away from the camp to get a better ward placement.
Twitch Chat2 votesNobody buys it because it's fucking terrible. Early game quest item with a huge opportunity cost and low payout. The fact that it's also clunky is just icing on the cake.
sej twen2 votesi thought the forum was english only
Eeyore2 votesProbably to stop junglers like Warwick or Nunu just fully charging the item in a single run of the enemy's jungle, without any time for the enemy to react.
But there is an argument for whether to enemy should be able to react. The item's not that strong, and it already requires risk.
Nymzo4 votesYeah but neither of them need 
Dimwitt2 votesand here i thought it was because it offered a mixed message.
Hey let me get this thing that transforms into an assassin item, but wait let me PvE for three minutes first!
BLACK REALM GOD1 votesnah. it's because the entire idea of it and the price for it is unreasonable for the amount of time required. there are lots of reasons why it's bad.
personally i think you should have to buy poacher's dirk and then either upgrade it to serrated dirk or buy serrated dirk as a trade in. that would fix the problem.
Tusutaki1 votesNot only that but why invest 600 gold into an item that CANNOT be built into anything until it transforms? It's function implicates that it's supposed to be an early game item where you have other items that you must have? Why have it function as a jungle item when it provides nothing beneficiary in the jungle?
The Yetii Rider1 votesPoacher's Dirk is intended to act as a way for AD assassin junglers, who are very reliant on the early game, to snowball forward if they have no lanes that are gankable or if they mess up.
The main reason this does not pan out is because the current climate with unpurchaseable wards, Chilling Smite, and poor freezing techniques means that AD assassins generally can get kills on half of their ganks easily even against a laner of equal skill.
FakeGravity1 votessome would build it but geez not only i have to steal monsters from enemy territory but also have to wait 50 seconds between them? is not like the champions that could do that super fast gonna build it (nunu and ivern)
korg0231 votesbecause its garbage?
big boi edri1 votesMaybe if they made it so that slaying an enemy champion in their jungle added a stack and reset the timer?
Counter jungle, get a kill, clear a camp. After that 50 second CD, and go pick off 1 more camp for the upgrade.
Probably would do wonders to have it transform into 
instead though.
SlashStriker1 votesThe cooldown kills its purpose completely since it requires you to kill 3 big monsters in enemy jungle
You are far better going Serrated Dirk than this item and many players actually do that
I am 99% sure you don't even buy Poacher Dirk
