can you please nerf volibear to keep him in line. Please

MunchCrunchLunch·May 25, 2016·9 votes·785 views

Please. he has 55% winrate and has been in the top 10 list for 6 months straight with a decent playrate. what does it mean? literally. every single champion. all 9 champions in this top 10 list has changed in the past 6 months. ever since the preseason. it was pantheon. mundo. ekko. kayle they changed. VOLIBEAR has been on this list. ever since. and he hasn't fallen at all. he goes to the top of the list every week or two. and never goes under.

I mean hes got one of the best cc spells in the game. a mini un dodgable blitzcrank hook with a kncokback and a slow and a movement speed boost. I mean why is his movement speed 345 when he got a pretty damn decent boost. with dead mans. good luck running away from him. he will just chase you down under the turret and maul you

I mean mundo got nerfed to the point where hes absolute shit before he gets an item or two. volibear is so damn strong early game. so damn strong.

31 Comments

Irelia BotMay 25, 20162 votes

Many have asked but it always seemed to get downvoted.

Even if it is something like the movement speed on rolling thunder or weaker slows.

MunchCrunchLunchMay 25, 20161 votes

I mean I died to a full tank volibear in 2 seconds. full tank volibear. at least ekko has to get iceborn gauntlet.

to comment on your first sentence. its because they are busy complaining on why a fed zed is one shotting them. its not like any assassin can do that. and some don't even need to be fed

I mean the turret practically heals him.

CoronaGulpMay 25, 20162 votes

LOL! oh lord. okay. Um if you died to a full tank Volibear, then you deserved to die to a full tank Volibear

You have no idea what kiting is/ are not experienced at it.
You play in a low elo (bronze) where you and your teammates don't know how to correctly utilize your team in fights
You position yourself to die to a full tank Volibear.
You don't know what itemization to build.
You and probably your team fed him and keep doing the same mistakes.
You probably focused him in a team fight.

CaítlynMay 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

LOL! oh lord. okay. Um if you died to a full tank Volibear, then you deserved to die to a full tank Volibear

You have no idea what kiting is/ are not experienced at it.

You play in a low elo (bronze) where you and your teammates don't know how to correctly utilize your team in fights

You position yourself to die to a full tank Volibear.

You don't know what itemization to build.

You and probably your team fed him and keep doing the same mistakes.

You probably focused him in a team fight.

Ill kite the 600 ms Volibear with ghost/flash. Easy!
Im not bronze sorry. Try again.
Okay Ill stand in fountain because Volibear can zoom in from anywhere ignoring all my teammates cuz hes tanky as f*ck and flip me.
Im sorry I actually have to build damage to do damage, unlike volibear.
How does he get fed? Cuz hes OP
Okay Ill ignore the dude that can 100-0 me. Thatll go well.

ParoeMay 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Ill kite the 600 ms Volibear with ghost/flash. Easy!

Im not bronze sorry. Try again.

Okay Ill stand in fountain because Volibear can zoom in from anywhere ignoring all my teammates cuz hes tanky as f*ck and flip me.

Im sorry I actually have to build damage to do damage, unlike volibear.

How does he get fed? Cuz hes OP

Okay Ill ignore the dude that can 100-0 me. Thatll go well.

600MS isnt possible with Q alone.
If volibear has ghost, what the hell are you doing alone?
If volibear is burning ghost and Q to "zoom in" why arent you dashing away with your squishy champ mobility instead of fighting him?
Volibear needs to get you low in order to do damage, otherwise hes going to smack your three times with his ult then burn his bite for no reason.
Any bruiser gets fed because you underestimate him. Why does zed get fed? Hm? Because "hes OP"?
271(AA+ult)+260(E)+266(Q). that is...about 800, in a full rotation, at level 18, with you having 0 armor. Renekton does more than that, a lot more. Lee sin does more than that, again, a lot more. Hell even blitzcrank does more than that.

AlwaysByMySideMay 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

600MS isnt possible with Q alone.

If volibear has ghost, what the hell are you doing alone?

If volibear is burning ghost and Q to "zoom in" why arent you dashing away with your squishy champ mobility instead of fighting him?

Volibear needs to get you low in order to do damage, otherwise hes going to smack your three times with his ult then burn his bite for no reason.

Any bruiser gets fed because you underestimate him. Why does zed get fed? Hm? Because "hes OP"?

271(AA+ult)+260(E)+266(Q). that is...about 800, in a full rotation, at level 18, with you having 0 armor. Renekton does more than that, a lot more. Lee sin does more than that, again, a lot more. Hell even blitzcrank does more than that.

Volibear has been sleeper OP for a while now. All the statistics show it. Your hot air masquerading as an argument doesn't really change that all data is showing that he is significantly over-performing.

Do you believe that all champions are equally balanced, and that there is no such thing as an overpowered champion?

I play some Voli jungle in ranked when I'm not playing Yi. Wanna know why? Because he's piss easy to use and far stronger than most other junglers.

CoronaGulpMay 25, 20161 votes

50% of all rank players are in and below Silver 4. Volibear is a relatively easy champion to use, just as Yi. Just look at the purple bar on their champion, it's Champion difficulty.

League of legends is about damage output. Champions are balanced between survivability to damage output. example: Tanks do less damage, but survive longer. Adcs do more damage, but survive less. etc. etc.

Low difficulty champions are easier to reach their max damage output.

So it's no wonder that you believe Volibear is OP Since you probably play in a low elo, where you and your teammates don't maximize their damage output correctly: utilizing champions to their max potential.

Riot isn't going to change the CALCULATED MATH behind a champions abilities and damage ratios just because a few, and or 100% of all bronze players think a champion is OP.

Everything, from Cooldown reduction, to movement speed, to health, etc. is all given a gold value that, when compared, makes each champion balanced.

Everything in a champion's kit is calculated to have an expected damage/survivability/utility output.

Changes to champions have historically happened whenever there have been large scale changes to itemization, which if you haven't been around for much time, you'd notice items have changed a lot throughout the different seasons.

Immediate changes to champions come within the first 2 patches of a champion release because it's their first introduction into the live servers, which brings... a bigger survey of information than the PBE.

Sorry, Volibear isn't op.

Please read this. It will explain more as to why you're wrong. http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/jLGvQ3Wk-before-you-make-a-post-about-balance

AlwaysByMySideMay 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

50% of all rank players are in and below Silver 4. Volibear is a relatively easy champion to use, just as Yi. Just look at the purple bar on their champion, it's Champion difficulty.

League of legends is about damage output. Champions are balanced between survivability to damage output. example: Tanks do less damage, but survive longer. Adcs do more damage, but survive less. etc. etc.

Low difficulty champions are easier to reach their max damage output.

So it's no wonder that you believe Volibear is OP Since you probably play in a low elo, where you and your teammates don't maximize their damage output correctly: utilizing champions to their max potential.

Riot isn't going to change the CALCULATED MATH behind a champions abilities and damage ratios just because a few, and or 100% of all bronze players think a champion is OP.

Everything, from Cooldown reduction, to movement speed, to health, etc. is all given a gold value that, when compared, makes each champion balanced.

Everything in a champion's kit is calculated to have an expected damage/survivability/utility output.

Changes to champions have historically happened whenever there have been large scale changes to itemization, which if you haven't been around for much time, you'd notice items have changed a lot throughout the different seasons.

Immediate changes to champions come within the first 2 patches of a champion release because it's their first introduction into the live servers, which brings... a bigger survey of information than the PBE.

Sorry, Volibear isn't op.

Please read this. It will explain more as to why you're wrong. http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/jLGvQ3Wk-before-you-make-a-post-about-balance

You're oddly condescending for someone who is a division below me despite having about ten times as many games as me. I'm used to having players plat and up talk like this to me, but never a silver five with poor KDAs on all of his champions and low average farm.

No, statistically Volibear has been over-performing for much of season six, in platinum and higher, which is what the game is balanced for.

http://champion.gg/champion/Volibear/Jungle

CoronaGulpMay 25, 20161 votes

Lol! You're silly, and I'm oddly condescending.

If I have to be in Master Elo to make my information valid to you, that's your problem. My theoretical game performance has nothing to do with how OP Volibear is. Theoretical because that's not even MY performance.

However you misunderstand statistics really. And I'm glad you bring up "statistics" from my account "low average farm" and "poor KDAs" I'll come back to this.

And It's obvious you've never seen or played Platinum/Diamond/Master Rank gameplay. The difference Between a Master and a Diamond is the difference between a Diamond and a silver. I've played in Platinum many times, I still do, and you will get a variety of players because of smaller player pools. In Diamond you can get masters and platinums on your team/enemy team. It's the reason why you get quicker games at those levels! Usually a team that becomes dominant can snowball the game quicker in their favor.

It's the reason you have LP decay at those levels, because if that didn't exist, the wait time on the queue would be endless!

Your information from champion.gg includes platinum+ rank. Check out a more precise method of analysis. http://www.lolking.net/charts?region=na&type=champion-winrate&range=monthly&map=sr&queue=1x1&league=challenger

From here you can see Win Rates by different Elo's Notice the following things.

Master+ Doesn't have Voli in the mix
Master+ Has yorick in the mix with 54% win rate. (Does this mean he's OP?) NO!!!
There is an upside down Bell Curve correlation between champion popularity and Champion win rates....
Check out champion popularity and win rates for each ELO

Meaning............ The most popular champions have the most decent win rates... closest to 50............ Yes! I wonder why? It's because there is a larger sample of Data to conclude their win rates as a BETTER reflection of.. if or if they are not OP.

Check out the popularity of Volibear in relation to other champions. It's very low.

To say a champion is OP because a few people preform 3% better than the expected 50% win rate, is not statistically supported.

Remember what you said about my poor KDAs and Low average Farm?

If I play 2 games, and my average KDA is 11/4/10 and Low average farm is 210, is that a good representation of my game performance? OR
If i play 50 games, and my average KDA is 7/5/9 and low average farm is 170?

Statistics... Very commonly misinterpreted.

Irelia BotMay 25, 20161 votes

Try kiting as a melee. Yeah it does not work so well. Play ranged? Um... so basically less then half of all champs are viable?
Bronze or not Voli is still out preforming most champs stat wise.
Don't know what happened.
Don't know what he built.
Once again don't know what happened.
Still don't know what happened.

You have 5 assumptions in your attack against him. I would hardly consider that a relevant argument.

CaítlynMay 25, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=z8mThq2o,comment-id=0000000000000001,timestamp=2016-05-25T03:22:31.592+0000)

Try kiting as a melee. Yeah it does not work so well. Play ranged? Um... so basically less then half of all champs are viable?

Bronze or not Voli is still out preforming most champs stat wise.

Don't know what happened.

Don't know what he built.

Once again don't know what happened.

Still don't know what happened.

You have 5 assumptions in your attack against him. I would hardly consider that a relevant argument.

Thank you.

See when bruiser players (Irelia Bot) and ADC players (me) actually agree on something, that probably signals its a legitimate complaint.

CoronaGulpMay 25, 20161 votes

50% of all rank players are in and below Silver 4. Volibear is a relatively easy champion to use, just as Yi. Just look at the purple bar on their champion, it's Champion difficulty.

Low difficulty champions are easier to reach their max damage output.

Riot isn't going to change the CALCULATED MATH behind a champions abilities and damage ratios just because a few, and or 100% of all bronze players think a champion is OP.

Everything, from Cooldown reduction, to movement speed, to health, etc. is all given a gold value that, when compared, makes each champion balanced.

Everything in a champion's kit is calculated to have an expected damage/survivability/utility output.

Sorry, Volibear isn't op.

Please read this. It will explain more as to why you're wrong. http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/jLGvQ3Wk-before-you-make-a-post-about-balance

Irelia BotMay 25, 20161 votes

Clearly you have no idea about champion power level changing based on items.

CoronaGulpMay 25, 20161 votes

Clearly, your comment has no premise and is therefore an unsupported opinion.

What you are saying is that items change the power level of Champions? Yes, you are right. However you use this information to infer Volibear's OP? This is wrong.

Allow me to explain.

Every champ is balanced. Imagine every champ has the same base stats and abilities and skills....

A champion's base stats, abilities and skills are given gold values, the same gold values that are used to calculate an item's gold cost/ build cost. Those base stats are all calculated to "start off" (naturally is a better word) balanced. Like Scaling runes vs flat runes, cost difference in the values between late game vs early game are also taken into consideration when balancing a champion.

So far that is how all champions are "Naturally balanced"

The only time you'll see this natural balance become unbalanced is through the playing of the game. Farm, kills, assists, objectives, all translate into Gold, which is what makes the players and their champions shift from this balance. If your opponent has more gold, he will benefit more from the items, which are available to all champions equally.

This extra power from items, which are a result from how well you're playing the game, will further highlight the naturally balanced power of your champion. This is only logical, as you'll only be extra powerful from items, compared to your opponent, if you're playing the game extra better* than he is. And these items further compliment the natural power spikes of a champion, which are naturally balanced and already incorporated into the gold value that justifies it.

For example: If a Lee sin gets fed in the early game, the item difference then, will have a more drastic impact on the game, than if he was to get fed late game. Why? Because Lee Sin's calculated natural balance base stats takes this into account, this shift of better early game performance, and his late game performance is balanced accordingly.

The game rewards you for being better than your opponent at the game, that's how you win the game. This is why I've said before that league is a damage output game. You do more damage by staying ahead in gold.

ParoeMay 25, 20162 votes

Volibear has not been changed in... a season or two?

If hes a product of itemization, change the itemization not the champion. As for you dying to full tank volibear in two seconds... he cant 100-0 you. He can, however, execute you with his W which scales with your health AND his. Hes a bruiser after all; volibear is a potent duelist with his passives, ult, and CC.

MunchCrunchLunchMay 25, 20161 votes

he has enough cc to call himself a tank. hes not a bruiser. he has a slow and a knockback that is better than a stun

a twitch just instakilled me. as miss fortune. in 2 damn seconds. is he an assassin?

ParoeMay 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

he has enough cc to call himself a tank. hes not a bruiser. he has a slow and a knockback that is better than a stun

a twitch just instakilled me. as miss fortune. in 2 damn seconds. is he an assassin?

600MS? He must have a ludens echo and swifites because you can outrun the bear with only 380MS unless he point blanks you from the fog (which does happen). Bruiser is defined by fighter primary tank secondary.

Volibear is a bruiser, and he is a duelist. If you 1v1 him, you will have a bad time. If you let him lumber up (why didnt you dash away? If youre squishy you have mobility most of the time.) and hit you three times? Why did you let him get fed to begin with? ANY fed duelist is a powerhouse thats hard to deal with.

{quoted}

Cant 100-0 you? Clearly youve never played an ADC. It sure is fun having this bear run at you with over 600 ms, flip you, then swipe you 3x and instakill you. All while building a total of 0 damage items. Only in LoL can tanks assassinate anyone they want.

Yes, volibear used his ult in that case and you were underleveled with base HP, which allowed him to kill you rather easily in the 5~8 seconds it takes for him to Q, E, R, AA, AA, AA, W. This is also assuming you have no CC of your own (soft or otherwise) or allies around to help you (which isnt likely. If any enemy champion is fed, why the hell are you alone?)

CaítlynMay 25, 20161 votes

Bruiser players are retarded. "dont fight him when hes fed"

You know how people get fed? Because theyre OP and get tons of free kills. It must be a coincidence how certain champions somehow always get fed right?

"dont 1v1 him"

Alright Ill just summon my entire team to help me every time I see Volibear. Because its impossible to beat him unless its 5v1. Good advice.

ParoeMay 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Bruiser players are retarded. "dont fight him when hes fed"

You know how people get fed? Because theyre OP and get tons of free kills. It must be a coincidence how certain champions somehow always get fed right?

"dont 1v1 him"

Alright Ill just summon my entire team to help me every time I see Volibear. Because its impossible to beat him unless its 5v1. Good advice.

"Dont duel when theyre ahead" is common sense.

You know how bruisers get fed? Because you duel them thinking that they dont do damage, or they engage, trade, and/or harass you enough that they can get that first loverly kill which allows them to snowball because they ARE NOT TANKS. They are bruisers; they have more HP than a fighter and slightly less base damage than a fighter. You know how i know that? Experience. Ive made that mistake plenty of times, and i still make that mistake. I underestimate how much damage bruisers do with levels alone and it leads to me falling behind and needing help to deal with them.

Do you fight a fed wukong? No. Do you fight a fed singed? No. Do you fight a fed blitzcrank? No. Do you fight a fed LB? No. Do you fight a fed caitlyn? No. Do you fight a fed ANYTHING? No.

So why is your entire argument crying about a fed volibear?

CoronaGulpMay 25, 20161 votes

He's a "fighter tank" primary fighter, secondary tank. Like Wukong.

ParoeMay 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

He's a "fighter tank" primary fighter, secondary tank.

Also known as a bruiser.

CoronaGulpMay 25, 20161 votes

Yes but the writer of this thread said he isn't. lol.

CaítlynMay 25, 20161 votes

Cant 100-0 you? Clearly youve never played an ADC. It sure is fun having this bear run at you with over 600 ms, flip you, then swipe you 3x and instakill you. All while building a total of 0 damage items. Only in LoL can tanks assassinate anyone they want.

CaítlynMay 25, 20161 votes

I swear I thought I was the only one who thought he was stupid. He has a mini Garen ult on his W that scales with how tank he is, and he has Mundos ult for free.

ParoeMay 25, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I swear I thought I was the only one who thought he was stupid. He has a mini Garen ult on his W that scales with how tank he is, and he has Mundos ult for free.

"mundo ult" 30% max health over 6 seconds with a 120s cooldown. "mini garen ult" 「 MINIMUM PHYSICAL DAMAGE: 80 / 125 / 170 / 215 / 260 (+ 15% bonus health) 」 +1% damage per 1% missing health. Its not true damage, and is an execute. It. Is. An. Execute. Theres nothing wrong with an execute working as intended; you shouldnt even be trying to fight him if you cant hurt him much, since hes a bruiser and not a real tank. Also garens ult is 40% of missing health as damage. Its a different kind of execute than volibears, since volibear has whats more a duelist ult that is less for burst damage and more for kill securing.

MunchCrunchLunchMay 25, 20161 votes

that shit does stupid damage on nearly no cooldown. and volibear is much more reliable as he has HARD cc unlike mundo.

mundo generates 40/50/60 max health. but thats his ultimate. his passive ain't shit in team fights. while volibear just does decent damage

CaítlynMay 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

"mundo ult" 30% max health over 6 seconds with a 120s cooldown. "mini garen ult" 「 MINIMUM PHYSICAL DAMAGE: 80 / 125 / 170 / 215 / 260 (+ 15% bonus health) 」 +1% damage per 1% missing health. Its not true damage, and is an execute. It. Is. An. Execute. Theres nothing wrong with an execute working as intended; you shouldnt even be trying to fight him if you cant hurt him much, since hes a bruiser and not a real tank. Also garens ult is 40% of missing health as damage. Its a different kind of execute than volibears, since volibear has whats more a duelist ult that is less for burst damage and more for kill securing.

Nothing wrong with an execute working as intended?

The entire point is that YOU SHOULDNT BE EXECUTING PEOPLE WHILE BUILDING FULL TANK. Thats just retarded design and shouldnt exist in this game.

ParoeMay 25, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Nothing wrong with an execute working as intended?

The entire point is that YOU SHOULDNT BE EXECUTING PEOPLE WHILE BUILDING FULL TANK. Thats just retarded design and shouldnt exist in this game.

Why are you, a squishy, trying to fight a bruiser to begin with? Do you fight a renekton with titanic and full tank? Do you fight a lee sin with cleaver and full tank? Do you fight a trundle, ever?

The answer to all of those questions is "not without help". So why are you complaining about a MELEE CHAMPION with ONLY AN MS STEROID smacking you WITH AN ULT THAT ADDS DAMAGE ONTO BASIC ATTACKS in order to EXECUTE THE SQUISHY? Why are you, a squishy, complaining at all that the DUELIST is DUELING YOU?

If hes really full tank. then he cant 100-0 you unless hes VERY FAR AHEAD. If he got VERY FAR AHEAD stop GOING OUT ALONE.

IcyPepperMay 25, 20161 votes

and he has Mundos ult for free.

Define "free." It has a cooldown and it's his passive?

RogueWillMay 25, 20161 votes

Volibear problem early game is not his cc (which is actually laughable for a tank), his damage (his execute is pretty nice thou) or his movement speed but actually his passive. Volibear passive is basically a free level 1 Mundo Ult at all levels (mundo at least have to pay 20% of his HP to activate) so he is actually way more tankier than what he appear to be. Just make his passive scale with levels instead of being a flat 30% max HP at all levels.

I see a lot of people frantically trying to get away from volibear Q, they burn summoners and dashes when in reality you should dash after he flings you (unless his team is close). Volibear will pretty much tickle at all point of the game unless he gets Frenzy on you (the bite).