How much is Herald worth? Shiv / RFC / PD / Runaan's? Best rush adc item? How good is Death's Dance compared to other defensive items? Is it an adc item or assassin item?
These are examples of questions that nobody really has a definitive answer to, right now. People are trying and failing at all kinds of crazy stuff. This necessarily makes the game more snowbally.
luckmallory3 votesOr it could be because towers are made of paper and you can get baron buff ten minutes before baron spawns now.
Also the new minion changes to people who have one more tower isn't going to help either.
Hyrum Graff2 votesOr it could be because towers are made of paper and you can get baron buff ten minutes before baron spawns now.
Also the new minion changes to people who have one more tower isn't going to help either.
Certainly. But not as big of an extent as everyone is making it out to be. My point is, time will tell what's a result of change, and what's a result of these specific changes. #duplicatecomment
luckmallory1 votesDid you just use a hashtag on a league forum?
Also it has been out and I have played this entire patch on the PBE since its release on there a month ago.
Games ending earlier is a direct result of towers being literally a quarter as strong. Espcecially the second tier tower. Trynd can kill you in lane and take two towers before you respawn.
Also the addition of the rift herald allows for insane pushing coupled with minion advantages that were added for no reason. Let me tell you when these minion advantages hit live you will see. You can take two towers and your minions will be strong enough to simply push top alone like there is a champion up there.
People have already played this pre season extensively and the games are ending sooner due to bad choices made by riot. Not because "nobody knows how to play"
Hyrum Graff1 votesDid you just use a hashtag on a league forum?
Um, yeah, but only because I literally copy-pasted my response from here and didn't want you to feel like I was cheating you out of a unique response, at least without acknowledging it.
Also it has been out and I have played this entire patch on the PBE since its release on there a month ago.
Games ending earlier is a direct result of towers being literally a quarter as strong. Especially the second tier tower. Trynd can kill you in lane and take two towers before you respawn.
This is an exaggeration.
Also the addition of the rift herald allows for insane pushing coupled with minion advantages that were added for no reason. Let me tell you when these minion advantages hit live you will see. You can take two towers and your minions will be strong enough to simply push top alone like there is a champion up there.
I have also played on the PBE and didn't experience quite what you have. However, it's also PBE, and this may have been masked by me and others trying crazy stuff like Cait mid and full crit Zed.
For the record, I'm not in favor of the minion changes as they are currently implemented on PBE.
People have already played this pre season extensively and the games are ending sooner due to bad choices made by riot. Not because "nobody knows how to play"
As I said, I'm not denying that preseason changes have made games end faster. I'm saying that's not the ONLY reason.
Sasogwa3 votesWhen nobody knows how to play, it's the other way around actually. People knowing how to play know how to close out games better, to get the objectives they can, to profit of every advantage they can get. When people will know how to play exactly as the patch suggests it, games are gonna be even shorter.
Hyrum Graff1 votesWhen nobody knows how to play, it's the other way around actually. People knowing how to play know how to close out games better, to get the objectives they can, to profit of every advantage they can get.
You could also say the opposite, though. People knowing how to play know how to stall games better, to contest objectives, and to counter every advantage the enemy has.
When people will know how to play exactly as the patch suggests it, games are gonna be even shorter.
Time will tell, but I think history is on my side -- this happens every preseason, it's just even more pronounced this year because of how MANY changes have been made.
Sasogwa3 votes[{quoted}](name=Hyrum Graff,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=z8kwtfzE,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2015-11-17T18:22:59.718+0000)
You could also say the opposite, though. People knowing how to play know how to stall games better, to contest objectives, and to counter every advantage the enemy has.
Time will tell, but I think history is on my side -- this happens every preseason, it's just even more pronounced this year because of how MANY changes have been made.
http://www.leaguemath.com/match-duration-analysis/
Game length goes down as people get better (basically, here it's a graph of game length according to the league you're in, and there's a distinct decrease the higher you are - so supposedly the more skilled you are - , the shorter the games are). I have had little success finding more stats about the subjects though. Most statistics site don't take in account game length.
Hyrum Graff1 voteshttp://www.leaguemath.com/match-duration-analysis/
Game length goes down as people get better (basically, here it's a graph of game length according to the league you're in, and there's a distinct decrease the higher you are - so supposedly the more skilled you are - , the shorter the games are).
Certainly true that as player skill goes up, ability to push an advantage goes up, so I'll concede that point.
However, I still think the "nobody knows what they're doing" effect creates things like large advantages for one team that wouldn't otherwise exist.
I have had little success finding more stats about the subjects though. Most statistics site don't take in account game length.
Yeah, unfortunately. For all the predictions we make, really only the next couple months will prove one of us right.
GhastlyGhoulMan2 votesExactly. Things are still getting sorted out, and they will get shifted around even MORE once the hotfix for Yasuo, Tryndamere, and Graves comes out. We'll see who pops into the meta after that.
JARmates1 votesI main trynda now but if they buff Talon...he was so much fun to play.
colesy2 votesherald is worth getting if the opportunity cost is low. say your top laner shoved wave to their second turret, and your mid is present with their mid and your bot is just doing whatever with their bot then you can take herald easy no problem and shove in mid.
shiv is good for extra waveclear and works good in conjunction with firecannon since they both apply energised attacks which count as separate procs, so your next attack will proc both effects for a massive spike. and since at that point you would probably have 80% or 100% crit, you'll get a shiv crit too. firecannon is super nice on its own if you want to poke too, like in siege situations where you can chunk someone hard before pushing the tower down which might force them out the fight.
pd is a solid dueling item thanks to the damage reduction from your last target and being able to move through minions, but shiv+firecannon is normally better. runaan's isn't so hot right now because the bolts don't just fire to adjacent enemies, the adjacent targets have to be in your auto range which makes it a lot weaker right now so it's not really worth building in most cases.
death's dance seems quite weak for what it does, you either want to be avoiding burst with positioning or actually having a defense against it like a veil, qss or even sterak's. scimitar gives lifesteal too, which death's dance kind of does too but has an actually useful active.
the game is snowbally because turrets are made out of paper and teleport was nerfed which is making ignite super popular again which makes it very easy to snowball your lane, shove your tower, shove in other towers and just create insane pressure around the map. your adc can't just lose lane anymore and freeze for the next 10 minutes and hope for scaling to kick in because by then your top lane inhibitor will be down and they'll be banging on the door of your mid inhibitor turret. since your team won't be able to win the 4v5. this makes playing champions according to lane match ups infinitely more important and makes early junglers crucial since they can take the game far enough out of the grasp of the other team that their falling off won't even matter when you're up against two lanes of siege minions with baron buff at 22 minutes since they can just dance around your nexus turrets and take them anyway.
Sire Hippington2 voteshow does this translate to faster games? the average gamelength per elo shows that lower elos have higher gametimes, so not really knowing what you are doing usually translates to longer, not shorter games. Games probably would end faster if teams would know better how to push their advantage...
Hyrum Graff1 votes[{quoted}](name=Don Pavoni,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=z8kwtfzE,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2015-11-18T01:18:13.152+0000)
how does this translate to faster games? the average gamelength per elo shows that lower elos have higher gametimes, so not really knowing what you are doing usually translates to longer, not shorter games. Games probably would end faster if teams would know better how to push their advantage...
It translates to more snowbally games, which end faster.
xl Kirito lx1 votesTo an extent. The tower changes are also significantly contributing to the problem.
Hyrum Graff1 votes[{quoted}](name=xl Kirito lx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=z8kwtfzE,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-11-17T18:16:00.788+0000)
To an extent. The tower changes are also significantly contributing to the problem.
Certainly. But not as big of an extent as everyone is making it out to be. My point is, time will tell what's a result of change, and what's a result of these specific changes.
Kazaashi1 votesI love the complaints about games being snowbally and that the tower changes only exacerbate it. What everyone conveniently forgets is that the towers are now also easier to kill when a team is behind. Split pushing and cross map pressure has never been stronger when you are beind.