Karthus Support

Diamondserpent··1 votes·906 views

I don't know why people consider Karthus to be so weak in a supporting role, his wall is great for zoning off opponents, it takes a reasonable amount of skill to use his Q which is an absolutely brilliant harass tool from the brush. His ult with item 3092 and item 3165 and item 3135 is just insane on squishy targets like the ADC (which every team comp has). Plus if you save him as last pick in champ select and select another mid-laner, people will usually take assassin or squishy junglers like Rengar making him a perfect pick to provide powerful kill pressure while his Q, W and E are useful in helping your ADC get fed. Does nobody else play him as a support, for me, he is the perfect example of a support that can be a threat by themselves and provide support both in and out of death.

He does take fair amount of skill and practice to use, especially in using the ult when its going to be more effective to both your lane and the mid and top lanes as well. Karthus Support is all about timing and having good zone control which makes him a really viable support imo.

I suppose people pick Thresh , Braum , Nautilus and Leona because they are much easier champs that will usually guarantee the BIG PLAYS that the LCS craves. Mages have never been popular compared to big bursty assassins or tank bruiser champs. Ahri is not a mage by the way, not with her rediculous mobility and ultimate that she can spam 3 times. Could you imagine if Lissandra could spam her ultimate 3 times?

11 Comments

Lord Dusteon2 votes

He has no hard CC and only one soft CC with W, extremely low damage without damage items and farm, and is weak to every normal support (healers can outheal his damage and survive through his mana bar, all ins can easily kill him or his adc because of how squishy they are, and poke can outdamage him in the short trades they do). If it works for you, great, but against a competent botlane he would lose the vast majority of the time.

Diamondserpent1 votes

You seem awfully sure of that, however I suggest you factor in player skill and the element that most players are used to fighting generic support of the month (Or Thresh , support of the year yawn) and not more unusual picks which take more skill to pull off but reward more in the long run.

Lord Dusteon1 votes

{quoted}

You seem awfully sure of that, however I suggest you factor in player skill and the element that most players are used to fighting generic support of the month (Or Thresh , support of the year yawn) and not more unusual picks which take more skill to pull off but reward more in the long run.

And assuming equal skill and competence the more meta support would almost always win. Karthus has one of the lowest level 1 healths AND health per levels, and one of the lowest base armors. He has no base stats to defend against most of the damage he will take, and low mana without last hitting. His range is entirely dependent on repeatedly landing Q without missing, as early on E costs 1 mana for almost every point of damage (and it's 30 mana a second, so goodluck using it without going oom).

As I said. If it works for you, great, do it. Against any competent support you should be dead almost constantly or going b, and even then as a support Karthus you have low reward. You bring, as a support, a W slow, weak sustained damage, and your ult. Unless you build mostly AP (which I cannot see how you are getting to that AP as a support) your ult is unlikely to do anything. Look at a Soraka or Thresh; Soraka provides an AoE silence that turns into a root, massive heals, global heals, and an unreliable slow. Thresh brings massive amounts of utility and playmaking, and can initiate, peel, save allies with W, and hook.

Bârd1 votes

Lets compare karthus support to other damage heavy support champions, BrandNidalee SonaVelkozAnnie andZyra

Karthus: low damage without gold and levels (Hint, supports are lacking in those), needs to get into a bad position to land Q's very low utility, only has wall

Brand: Damage is reliant on his passive, so spell pen boots and liandrys are all you need 2 SECOND SPAMMABLE STUN

Zyra: Damage is moderate until Sorcs and Liandrys are purchased, but is crazy after that Dat root, dat knockup, dat plant zoning, and free wards

Nidalee: High base on spears, great execute in cougar form Massive heal and attack speed buff, and free "wards" with traps

Sona: High base and scaling on Q and Staccato, which can be spammed Heals, Shields, Speed, and an AOE stun.

Vel'Koz: Moderate base damage, but spells can be spammed due to low cooldowns Two slows and a Knockup/Knockback.

Annie High burst. Ridiculously high, unavoidable burst AOE STUNS

In short: People dont play karthus support because his ability to support the Carry is nearly nonexistent. His utility, when compared to nearly any other champion in the game, ends up coming ahead of a handful (Akali Evelynn Ezreal Fiora Katarina MasterYi Twitch Zed ). He cannot peel, he cannot heal, and his base damage is not high enough to be worth anything without a significant item advantage.

Drunk Rummate1 votes

Imagine this lane for me:

Your ADC plus you (Karthas)

Versus

Their ADC plus Nautilus/Thresh/Blitzcrank/Leona/Nami

So in this lane, what prevents the enemy support from walking into the bush and standing there, completely zoning both you and your ADC away from the farm? You have absolutely nothing to offer your ADC in terms of defense, you have no counterengage to offer or any aggressive plays to make.

If Nautilus engages on Thresh, the ADCs fight each other. If Leona jumps on Nami, she gets hit by a bubble and takes some poke from the ADC. If Blitzcrank moves forward to hook an ADC, Nautilus or Thresh just stand in between them. Karthas offers none of this. He's squishier than the ADC so he can't offer himself as a meatshield. His CC is negligible at best. He has no sustain. He just does a little damage (emphasis on little, because his base damage is low).

You throw your Q at them a lot and they (probably) dodge it, but your ADC can't afford to farm because if he walks up to the bush he gets hooked, zenith bladed, or bubbled. All the while you sit there throwing out your skittles, "helping." Even Nami would just walk straight up to you, press W, and walk away after pressing ctrl 4 to laugh.

Diamondserpent1 votes

and this in a nutshell is exactly why this game has such a toxic community. Unable to think out of your little bubble. Yes, I'm sorry to insult your precious Thresh who has NEVER had a decent nerf in his life and can do everything but maybe some of us are bored of seeing ONE support dominate the lane for the last few years.

Deep Terror Nami1 votes

? Because he doesn't agree that your suggestion of a non-meta pick works well, that's why the community is toxic?

Have you considered that Karthus might actually be a bad support?

Drunk Rummate1 votes

Did you even read what I said? Probably not because you responded almost instantly and didn't address anything that I said. I told you why Karthas support wont work. I used logic. I didn't just say "no it sucks" and move on.

Want to know something interesting? My friend and I have tried karthas support before as a duo. Several times. Every single time we did it, me (the ADC) got completely zoned from CS by the enemy support because Karthas is incapable of providing decent counter pressure in lane.

If you're bored of thresh then don't play him, he's honestly not even that good compared to many other supports. But don't play Karthas, pick something else instead. That's all I'm saying.

GroundRuleDouble2 votes

I love Karthus, but he's not a support. Don't think we didn't notice your non-answer while just insulting the person presenting the other side of the argument.

KirbyCake1 votes

karthus support and heimerdinger supports are my main supports, they just do so much damage

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