I'm convinced that ahri outclasses her in every way assuming your team is warding at least hlaf decently and has an idea of where Zoe is. I don't want to do the math myself because i suck at math and i'd pref not to fuck it up.
D357R0Y3R5 votesAhri is a better version of Zoe but people would tell you the opposite Ahri has better cc, better catching potential, zoe's CC is a stun that wears off if taking damage, ahri is a 2 sec stun basically since you move slowly. Ahri has better burst, zoe's E+Q+R damage is 750+230% ap, ahri's damage goes way beyond that especially with E damage amp and it can even break zoe's damage while counting zoe's passive and W damage. Her damage with a single R+E+W+Q is 804+193% ap increased to 964+231% with charm. If you decide to count zoe's passive and W damage, you can count her other 2 R damage. It goes to 1044 (1254 with charm damage amp)+ 263% ap (315% ap) and her R deals damage to 3 targets. While zoe's passive is 135+32.5% ap and her W damage is 195+55% ap Ahri has sustain
The only thing zoe does better, is being able to get a random redemption on minions, that's it
zoe has 49% win rate 10% pick rate ahri has 53.5% win rate 15% pick rate
PhDs Nuts2 votesAhri is a better version of Zoe but people would tell you the opposite Ahri has better cc, better catching potential, zoe's CC is a stun that wears off if taking damage, ahri is a 2 sec stun basically since you move slowly and also stops dashes Ahri has better burst, zoe's E+Q+R damage is 750+230% ap, ahri's damage goes way beyond that especially with E damage amp
The only thing zoe does better, is being able to get a random redemption on minions, that's it
zoe has 49% win rate 10% pick rate ahri has 53.5% win rate 15% pick rate
Can't help but notice you ignored Zoe's passive and W damage and didn't provide any of Ahri's numbers at all.
oOBestEveNAOo2 votesCan't help but notice you ignored Zoe's passive and W damage and didn't provide any of Ahri's numbers at all.
And was factually incorrect in the statement in the first place. Lol.
D357R0Y3R2 votesit took me a little of time but i did it
oOBestEveNAOo3 votesit took me a little of time but i did it
Ahri has to land every piece of her combo and at a much riskier range. Zoe lands one ability from 2 screens away for the full damage total.
The reality of the situation is you're never going to reliably deal full combo's worth of damage with Ahri and Zoe's is the most reliable damage out put in the entire game mate.
And you still didn't account for Zoe's full kit. Not that it matters, she only uses one ability any ways.
D357R0Y3R3 votesAhri has to land every piece of her combo
ROFL she just has to land A SINGLE SKILLSHOT, everything else is autolocked and her Q is not dodgeable if you get hit by E she has to hit ONE SPELL just like zoe's E
The reality of the situation is you're never going to reliably deal full combo's worth of damage with Ahri
if the ahri player has no hands yea sure
but it's kkkkkkkkkkkk 53% win rate is balanced it's not like we lived this era where ahri dominated midlane with 53% win rate in the past
49% win rate zoe is way better dude
oOBestEveNAOo1 votesROFL she just has to land A SINGLE SKILLSHOT, everything else is autolocked and her Q is not dodgeable if you get hit by E she has to hit ONE SPELL just like zoe's E
TIL: Ahri doesn't deal damage on her spells other than her q. Certainly not 3 instances of damage on her ult. Nor does foxfire do any damage. Lelelelelelelel.
D357R0Y3R1 votesyet, 1 instance of ult+w+e+q deals more damage than a zoe combo
hmmm, fuck u math for being right :^)
oOBestEveNAOo3 votes<ignores his own math and the AP ratios he provides to make this statement as his statement is only accurate for very low ap totals>yet, 1 instance of ult+w+e+q deals more damage than a zoe combo
hmmm, fuck u math for being right :^)
Top kek.
AMADEUSdotEXE1 votesAhri doesn't need to land 2 of her abilities though, 2 f thm automatically prioritize champions. Isnt that one of the main arguements people have on Zoe.
VoraciousX1 votesCan't help but notice you ignored Zoe's passive and W damage and didn't provide any of Ahri's numbers at all.
Ahri's Q: 280+70% AP, Ahri's W: 224+48%AP, Ahri's E: 180+40%AP(with a 20% damage amp on all other spells), Ahri's R: 360+105%AP. That equals a total of 1216.8+267.6% AP damage. This is assuming the target has 0 MR.
D357R0Y3R1 votes(70+48+40+105) x 1.2 = 263 x 1.2= 315%
how did u find 267%
VoraciousX4 votes(70+48+40+105) x 1.2 = 263 x 1.2= 315%
how did u find 267%
20% damage amp to Q>W>R. You don't include the 20% on E. I did forget to add the 40% from E on there though because I was separating it from the 20% amp. It's supposed to be 307.6.
Here's the first good answer OP.
And we can see the requirement clearly that Ahri's damage is conditionally limited by the use of her amplifier. A lot more risk, not much more reward, and more potential for counter play with good reactions.
Um...Ahri's combo is a lot less counterplayable than a Zoe E. You just have to walk around a Zoe E, and be aware of where she is...Ahri however will ult in your face for an upfront charm. Also he was using Zoe's full combo, meaning that you need to hit E for Zoe to do 90% of Ahri's damage in her Ahri's combo. And as he said, Zoe's incorrect combo will deal 65% of Ahri's incorrect combo. Zoe's correct combo will deal 90% of Ahri's correct combo. So Ahri deals 10% more damage in the best case scenario, and 35% more damage in the worst case scenario. I'd say that's a huge difference. This also shows that Zoe's E is a lot more important to Zoe than Ahri's E is to Ahri.
Ranmaru3 votesAhri is a better version of Zoe but people would tell you the opposite Ahri has better cc, better catching potential, zoe's CC is a stun that wears off if taking damage, ahri is a 2 sec stun basically since you move slowly and also stops dashes Ahri has better burst, zoe's E+Q+R damage is 750+230% ap, ahri's damage goes way beyond that especially with E damage amp and it can even break zoe's damage while counting zoe's passive and W damage. Her damage with a single R+E+W+Q is 804+193% ap increased to 964+231% with charm. If you decide to count zoe's passive and W damage, you can count her other 2 R damage. It goes to 1044 (1254 with charm damage amp)+ 263% ap (315% ap) and her R deals damage to 3 targets. While zoe's passive is 135+32.5% ap and her W damage is 195+55% ap Ahri has sustain
The only thing zoe does better, is being able to get a random redemption on minions, that's it
zoe has 49% win rate 10% pick rate ahri has 53.5% win rate 15% pick rate
SHH DONT SAY THAT AROUND THE AHRI MAINS THEY WILL CALL YOU BIASED AND THAT YOU SUCK
DONT SAY IT AROUND THE ZOE HATERS NEITHER SMH
EDIT: Thanks Ill use this a lot
AMADEUSdotEXE1 votesOh yyou mean my other post right
ExcessiveProtest3 votesahri is a 2 sec stun basically since you move slowly and also stops dashes
https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/007/784/what-year-is-it-robin-williams.jpg
D357R0Y3R1 votes? they fixed charm stopping unstoppable dashes it still stop any stoppable dashes
bruh
ExcessiveProtest1 votesCheck patch 6.4
bruh
D357R0Y3R1 votesi see, was told they fixed it stopping unstoppable dashes
thanks for informing me
Paroe5 votesSooo.... Math time! Ahri; Q: 140+0.35AP Q: 140+0.35AP as true damage
W: 224+0.48AP
E: 180+0.4AP E: +20% damage
R: 360+1.5AP
Total: 1044+3.08AP Adjusted total: 1252+3.696
Zoeh: Passive: 135+0.32AP
Q: Min: 150+0.6AP Q: Max: 375+1.5AP
W:195+0.55AP
E: Min: 220+0.4AP E: Max: 440+0.8AP
Total min: 700+1.87AP Total max: 1145+3.17AP
Comparison:
A minimum zoe combo deals ~65% of an ahri who uses her E last.
A maximum zoe combo deals ~90% of an ahri who used her E first.
(This comparison only compares in-kit damage numbers, not mobility and CC, of which Ahri has more mobility by far and zoe has more CC. They are both roughly the same level of safe as well, with Ahri being slightly safer)
oOBestEveNAOo1 votesSooo.... Math time! Ahri; Q: 140+0.35AP Q: 140+0.35AP as true damage
W: 224+0.48AP
E: 180+0.4AP E: +20% damage
R: 360+1.5AP
Total: 1044+3.08AP Adjusted total: 1252+3.696
Zoeh: Passive: 135+0.32AP
Q: Min: 150+0.6AP Q: Max: 375+1.5AP
W:195+0.55AP
E: Min: 220+0.4AP E: Max: 440+0.8AP
Total min: 700+1.87AP Total max: 1145+3.17AP
Comparison: A minimum zoe combo deals ~65% of an ahri who uses her E last.
A maximum zoe combo deals ~90% of an ahri who used her E first.(This comparison only compares in-kit damage numbers, not mobility and CC, of which Ahri has more mobility by far and zoe has more CC. They are both roughly the same level of safe as well, with Ahri being slightly safer)
Here's the first good answer OP.
And we can see the requirement clearly that Ahri's damage is conditionally limited by the use of her amplifier. A lot more risk, not much more reward, and more potential for counter play with good reactions.
Paroe1 votesHere's the first good answer OP.
And we can see the requirement clearly that Ahri's damage is conditionally limited by the use of her amplifier. A lot more risk, not much more reward, and more potential for counter play with good reactions.
Thats true, but who plays risky with Ahri? I havent met a high ELO Ahri main yet who goes balls deep without landing a half-health E first so they can QWR for the kill then R away. Ahri's kit has the potential to be risky and reward risky plays but... It doesnt promote that playstyle. It promotes being safe and only ever going in when youre guranteed a kill.
oOBestEveNAOo3 votesThats true, but who plays risky with Ahri? I havent met a high ELO Ahri main yet who goes balls deep without landing a half-health E first so they can QWR for the kill then R away. Ahri's kit has the potential to be risky and reward risky plays but... It doesnt promote that playstyle. It promotes being safe and only ever going in when youre guranteed a kill.
I believe I'd agree with that. For the average player it's certainly more risky because of the mechanics involved and a lot less reliable. Equally effective I'd say though, if performed perfectly. And if we consider these damage out puts in terms of sustained DPS there's a significant decline in Ahri's effectiveness. So in terms of overall damage out put potential there is indeed a clear winner.
Paroe1 votesI believe I'd agree with that. For the average player it's certainly more risky because of the mechanics involved and a lot less reliable. Equally effective I'd say though, if performed perfectly. And if we consider these damage out puts in terms of sustained DPS there's a significant decline in Ahri's effectiveness. So in terms of overall damage out put potential there is indeed a clear winner.
Depends. Its possible they still come out even, i might get on PBE and do some 5 second testing tomorrow for it...
oOBestEveNAOo2 votesDepends. Its possible they still come out even, i might get on PBE and do some 5 second testing tomorrow for it...
I don't think you need the testing to know that once Ahri's ult is on CD she can't really out put the same damage over a full minute that a Zoe can. But I might be surprised.
Sire Hippington4 votesYou calculation is a bit of, cause if zoe goes all-in with W, she will proc her passive multiple times and not just once. You also did mention ahries Q has half truedamage, but forgot that on Zoes E. There is also the fact that zoe when she goes all-in she probably got an agressive summoner or item active drop a random minion proc for even more damage and another W
Also, Zoe's can combo for 625(1.725ap) - 940(2.625ap) every 8.4sec Ahries combo without her high CD ult is 784(1.8ap) every 7.2sec
So zoe has her oneshot potential always up, ahrie is bound to her ult CD unless fed.
Dps(with max cdr):
Zoe with all passive procs: Q 38.46(0.15AP)-96.15(0.38)+P 69.23(0.17AP) + E 52.38(0.1AP)+P 16.07(0.04AP) + (R)P 45(0.11AP) = 240.37(0.57AP) - 278.83(0.79AP) Zoe without passive exept for R: 155(0.36AP) - 193.53(0.58Ap) (hard to include her W in dps calculations as it doesn't have a conventional CD)
Ahrie: Q 66.67+0.17AP + W 74.67+0.16 + E 25+0.06 = 166.34+0.39ap (without E amp so theoritically it would be a bit higher than that)
nm10102 votesGood post, but a couple of small adjustments that would be nice
Zoe could probably get at least 2 passive procs off (it has no cd and w bubbles can apply it).
Best case scenario for Zoe should probably have a damage item/spell on w.
It would be nice to have Zoe’s true damage separated like you did with Ahri.
AMADEUSdotEXE1 votesthank you
oOBestEveNAOo4 votesSure.
Zoe = A lot
Ahri = Less
There, you done been mathed.
Akali is SO HOT3 votesYou can't really say that Ahri is better than Zoe just because she can do more damage. Ahri can do a lot of damage, but she doesn't do it right away. Zoe may not do as much total damage as Ahri, but she still does 80% of a squishy target's health instantly from a screen and a half away. On the other hand, Ahri is more mobile than Zoe and is good at picking targets. You can't really say one is better than the other just from numbers alone and also have to consider that they function very differently as champions.
